Yes, real men, real women, real people of any or no gender, and of all ages, wear diapers. That is not something anyone should be shamed or ridiculed for.
I don’t give a shit if trump or his supporters wear them, they are out there causing actual harm to others, and there is plenty to actually criticise them for, why the fuck resort to this ableist bullshit? We rightfully give them shit for judging others by what’s in their pants, yet gleefully judge them for what they wear under theirs?
We’re not the ones resorting to this ableist bullshit, they are. They are the ones wearing diapers and making a mockery out of it. We criticize them for making a mockery out of it simply to emulated someone that makes a mockery out of everything. Do we need to remind everyone of Trump mocking a disabled person on live TV?
Yes, I agree, fuck that noise. But we’re not the ones making that noise.
This. Nowhere is the paradox of tolerance more dangerous than around “ableism” issues; people gotta learn to keep their targets sighted on the actual scum Insidiously using empathy to cross purposes.
The rightfully tolerant protector of the less able does not argue against the Nazi arguing he should be able to punch people without repercussions, they punch the Nazi until he shuts up and go back to equity for everyone else with a clean conscience.
Don’t tolerate the intolerant; don’t shield them with the benefit of the doubt or stop those with the conviction to stand up for those being told to sit either.
Nowhere is the paradox of tolerance more dangerous than around “ableism” issues
JFC, so just say you’re an enthusiastic ableist… You honestly don’t deserve any attention beyond that point, but since I’m here, and you’re full of shit, I’ll give it a quick note in case anyone actually buys in to your bad bad take:
The rightfully tolerant protector of the less able does not argue against the Nazi arguing he should be able to punch people without repercussions, they punch the Nazi until he shuts up and go back to equity for everyone else with a clean conscience.
No where do I even imply anything near “don’t punch a Nazi”, what I’m literally saying is “don’t make fun of people for wearing diapers” and “criticise nazis for their nazi actions, not for what they wear”
According to you we should go around making fun of everyone who wears diapers because you can’t think of a better way to tell them apart from fucking Nazis., and also are unable to think of better things to criticise them for, than wearing said diaper.
You’re a pathetic ableist joke who clearly cares more about their “right” to abuse disabled people than their duty to do anything against nazis. You’re literally playing their game for them - shifting focus away from them being fascist, right in to the ableist jokes you just find too funny to not participate in, to the point of making the exact same kinds of excuses they do.
Congratulations, you’re on the wrong side, no matter what nonsense you tell yourself to feel better.
It was shared for the sole purpose of ridicule. Have you seen some of these fucking comments?? How about instead of getting defensive (and invoking his mockery of disabled people in your defence of… mocking disabled people, who you may not intend to mock, but who you do when you ridicule and stigmatise things they use), just, you know, don’t make fun of medical aids and people who use them, and attack fascists on the grounds of their fucking fascism instead???
Howard Stern took a shit in a diaper on air(or pretended to). I can and will mock him for this. Not because he wore a diaper, but because he wore a diaper when not necessary and made a spectacle of himself.
Donald Trump mocks people for their age even if they’re still able to ride a bike, when he won’t or can’t walk a couple hundred feet with a bunch of other political leaders, while he’s incontinent and his opponent isn’t. I can and will mock him for wearing a diaper, not because it’s ableist, but because he’s a hypocrite and deserves to be called out for it.
I will mock his followers for wearing diapers, again, not because I’m ableist, but because they’re using medical devices when they don’t need to, both making a spectacle of themselves and supporting a hypocrite who makes fun of disabled people. They are deserving of criticism not only for what and who they support, but also how they show that support.
I’ve seen the comments, and yes some are low effort ridicule about wearing a diaper. But the majority are ridiculing these people for making a mockery out of wearing a diaper. That’s the difference. There are going to be elements in every group that punch down, but the Trump fans are made up entirely of that element. That’s why they are making a mockery of wearing a diaper in the first place.
Instead of getting defensive, try taking a step back and look at what people are actually doing rather than focusing on the few bad examples and lecturing all of us about being ableist.
It would be much better if the hypocrisy was pointed out in the article. Republicans are responsible for repeatedly taking away protections and supports for the most vulnerable in our society. And most of their voters don’t know or don’t care as long as they’re hurting the right people. This wearing of diapers is a mockery of support for people with disabilities.
The problem is - they don’t give a fuck about the hypocrisy, so all that’s left is the ableism, from both those who regularly harm disabled people ignorantly using diapers to make whatever statement, and those mocking them for wearing them (and no one is going to ask them each individually about their medical needs, so you can never actually know if it is legitimate use or not). The impact remains - adults wearing diapers are the punch line, deepening an already existing and harmful stigma, for no other reason than a cheap and ableist laugh.
I’m sorry you got downvoted because you are calling out a cruel stigma. You are very right and people who suffer from incontinence should not be laughed at. We must offer more dignity and compassion to people.
According to your logic, we not only should be making fun of all old people now, but we should be doing it because trump did it first…
How does that make you any better than them?
Are you really that attached to mocking people for wearing a medical aid, that you seriously can’t put that to one side and criticise them for the actual harm they’re causing?
I think it’s less about “going high” than it is not alienating people in your own group. You can’t make fun of disabilities on the other side (with the exception of a clinical lack of empathy) without the collateral damage of also making fun of people on your side with those disabilities.
I’m not going to be pulling my punches when this election going the wrong way could actually end democracy in the United States for the foreseeable future. And that has an absolute fuckload of horrifying knock-on effects both domestically and globally. As in, like, (more) concentration camps (remember the border patrol camps and the children they separated from families who STILL haven’t been reunited in a shocking number of cases), and they’ll probably put “political undesirables” in there this time too.
But god forbid we offend a few people.
To reiterate: it’s not a tactic I am excited about using. It is a dumb tactic. But Trump supporters are greedy, stupid, deeply prejudiced, or some combination thereof, without exception, and it’s a tactic that tends to work decently well on them. On that basis alone it’s fair game.
The paradox of tolerance does not exist. Tolerance is a social contract, not a moral imperative.
Acceptance of false paradox is what the intolerant and authoritarian want.
By rejecting it as false, it lays bare that the intolerant have rejected polite society and have made themselves open to be rightfully marginalized and ostracized.
If you don’t think the paradox of tolerance is real, I’m guessing you’ve never observed concern trolling from the far right. Which is weird, because they’ve been doing it all over the place, especially since 2016 or so.
The minute you allow intolerance to exist, you have lost.
Karl Popper framed it incorrectly. He makes it sound like a moral imperative and the hateful have seized on that.
If tolerance is a moral issue there is little that can be done about those who choose to be intolerant. Being moral is an individual choice.
It IS a social contract, howevet. If I want my lifestyle to be tolerated then I need to tolerate that of others, unless my (or their) lifestyle imposes unnecessary restrictions on the other.
For example, all the Christians whining about Christianity not being tolerated. They’re getting it wrong - nobody is saying don’t be Christian. They break the contract by imposing their specific values on everyone else by force.
There is a baseline on which the vast majority agree concerning appropriate behavior in society. Murder, for example, is generally considered wrong. We don’t tolerate it.
For example, all the Christians whining about Christianity not being tolerated. They’re getting it wrong - nobody is saying don’t be Christian. They break the contract by imposing their specific values on everyone else by force.
Dude, that’s literally the paradox of tolerance.
They take advantage of the goodwill and social norms of the rest of the population in the interest of imposing their specific values on everyone else by force. They don’t believe that that sense of goodwill and social norms are things they have to abide by, but they recognize the power of exploiting a system against itself, and that power is very real. The initial stages of this generally involve aggressively exploiting the letter of the law, and often, working entirely contrary to the spirit of the law.
That logic makes no sense. Trump criticized Biden for being old, not “all old people”. If he is going to give that criticism, he should take it too. After all, he is almost as old and a lot less healthy as evident by his age related incontinence.
You are absolutely correct. The stupidity here, though, is that word got out that Trump uses them, and that has caused a lot of his supporters to start wearing them, whether they need to or not.
And so our alternative is…? To ignore this rather quaint sociological phenomenon? To let it pass by, unremarked-upon? Is that how we make increments of improvement to our behavior and culture? What’s the take away? What’s the lesson here for us? How do we be better people when our opponents are literally caricatures of cartoon villains, who, every week, add another hilarious stereotype to their gestalt.
Remember: you’re talking to, and about, the species that is currently exporting a record number of voyeuristic reality shows that sell “engineered awkwardness” because sex doesn’t sell by itself anymore.
I don’t think it’s the wearing of nappies that is worthy of ridicule. You are right, it’s a medical question, people who need it should wear it, and everybody else should just stfu about it.
(Except perhaps in the odd case when medical conditions do come into question while assessing the fitness of a candidate to an office, especially such a high stakes and demanding one as the potus, but that’s by the by).
What is chilling is the followers of Trump who try to make a virtue out of it. And ridiculous. Laughing at them is the right response because the other option is utter despair.
Nominally, I agree. Trump and his die-hard supporters are the exception.
I understand that there will be splash damage. I regret that there is splash damage. But the fact remains that the objective is to sap support from his base, and from people who are (somehow) on the fence about him. That can be done by sharing these unflattering facts about him.
I get that it’s offensive. Again, I regret that the tactic has become necessary; but it HAS become necessary. This is a “pull out all the stops” situation. If it stops that fascist fuck from winning, I’m willing to live with being labeled as “intolerant” because I used his own tactics against him. I’m not reveling in this, or joyously clowning on those less fortunate than me. There is a specific reason why I’m willing to cross that line, and it’s “we might not have small-d democracy anymore if he wins”.
But who does this actually convince that isn’t already swayed by his unhinged rants and abhorrent behaviors and policies? It’s no different than intentionally misgendering someone. “Collateral damage” that hurts the most vulnerable among us is not worth it just to bully someone you don’t like.
Let them make fools of themselves with this bizarre infighting, they really don’t need our help.
This is so detached from reality. The people who are on the fence will see this as childish, while his supporters are lost enough I don’t think any of them will care.
I’m sorry what? Do you understand the difference between, for example, mocking a blind person for using a cane and wearing dark glasses, and mocking people who think it’s cool and decide to start wearing dark glasses and using a cane while being perfectly sighted? Do you think that is a reasonable thing to do? Do you think it would be ableist to laugh at perfectly able people who are pretending to be disabled?
You’re right. Trump should advocate for people who wear diapers. If he were a leader worth following that is. Let’s see Trump put vanity aside and an embrace his disability for the betterment of all.
Yes, real men, real women, real people of any or no gender, and of all ages, wear diapers. That is not something anyone should be shamed or ridiculed for.
I don’t give a shit if trump or his supporters wear them, they are out there causing actual harm to others, and there is plenty to actually criticise them for, why the fuck resort to this ableist bullshit? We rightfully give them shit for judging others by what’s in their pants, yet gleefully judge them for what they wear under theirs?
Fuck this noise.
We’re not the ones resorting to this ableist bullshit, they are. They are the ones wearing diapers and making a mockery out of it. We criticize them for making a mockery out of it simply to emulated someone that makes a mockery out of everything. Do we need to remind everyone of Trump mocking a disabled person on live TV?
Yes, I agree, fuck that noise. But we’re not the ones making that noise.
This. Nowhere is the paradox of tolerance more dangerous than around “ableism” issues; people gotta learn to keep their targets sighted on the actual scum Insidiously using empathy to cross purposes.
The rightfully tolerant protector of the less able does not argue against the Nazi arguing he should be able to punch people without repercussions, they punch the Nazi until he shuts up and go back to equity for everyone else with a clean conscience.
Don’t tolerate the intolerant; don’t shield them with the benefit of the doubt or stop those with the conviction to stand up for those being told to sit either.
Thank you. I’ve had to explain this paradox to multiple tens of close friends and associates often, and recently.
This is much better worded than any of my attempts. Kudos.
JFC, so just say you’re an enthusiastic ableist… You honestly don’t deserve any attention beyond that point, but since I’m here, and you’re full of shit, I’ll give it a quick note in case anyone actually buys in to your bad bad take:
No where do I even imply anything near “don’t punch a Nazi”, what I’m literally saying is “don’t make fun of people for wearing diapers” and “criticise nazis for their nazi actions, not for what they wear”
According to you we should go around making fun of everyone who wears diapers because you can’t think of a better way to tell them apart from fucking Nazis., and also are unable to think of better things to criticise them for, than wearing said diaper.
You’re a pathetic ableist joke who clearly cares more about their “right” to abuse disabled people than their duty to do anything against nazis. You’re literally playing their game for them - shifting focus away from them being fascist, right in to the ableist jokes you just find too funny to not participate in, to the point of making the exact same kinds of excuses they do.
Congratulations, you’re on the wrong side, no matter what nonsense you tell yourself to feel better.
I think your diaper is on a little too tight.
It was shared for the sole purpose of ridicule. Have you seen some of these fucking comments?? How about instead of getting defensive (and invoking his mockery of disabled people in your defence of… mocking disabled people, who you may not intend to mock, but who you do when you ridicule and stigmatise things they use), just, you know, don’t make fun of medical aids and people who use them, and attack fascists on the grounds of their fucking fascism instead???
Howard Stern took a shit in a diaper on air(or pretended to). I can and will mock him for this. Not because he wore a diaper, but because he wore a diaper when not necessary and made a spectacle of himself.
Donald Trump mocks people for their age even if they’re still able to ride a bike, when he won’t or can’t walk a couple hundred feet with a bunch of other political leaders, while he’s incontinent and his opponent isn’t. I can and will mock him for wearing a diaper, not because it’s ableist, but because he’s a hypocrite and deserves to be called out for it.
I will mock his followers for wearing diapers, again, not because I’m ableist, but because they’re using medical devices when they don’t need to, both making a spectacle of themselves and supporting a hypocrite who makes fun of disabled people. They are deserving of criticism not only for what and who they support, but also how they show that support.
I’ve seen the comments, and yes some are low effort ridicule about wearing a diaper. But the majority are ridiculing these people for making a mockery out of wearing a diaper. That’s the difference. There are going to be elements in every group that punch down, but the Trump fans are made up entirely of that element. That’s why they are making a mockery of wearing a diaper in the first place.
Instead of getting defensive, try taking a step back and look at what people are actually doing rather than focusing on the few bad examples and lecturing all of us about being ableist.
It would be much better if the hypocrisy was pointed out in the article. Republicans are responsible for repeatedly taking away protections and supports for the most vulnerable in our society. And most of their voters don’t know or don’t care as long as they’re hurting the right people. This wearing of diapers is a mockery of support for people with disabilities.
The problem is - they don’t give a fuck about the hypocrisy, so all that’s left is the ableism, from both those who regularly harm disabled people ignorantly using diapers to make whatever statement, and those mocking them for wearing them (and no one is going to ask them each individually about their medical needs, so you can never actually know if it is legitimate use or not). The impact remains - adults wearing diapers are the punch line, deepening an already existing and harmful stigma, for no other reason than a cheap and ableist laugh.
I’m sorry you got downvoted because you are calling out a cruel stigma. You are very right and people who suffer from incontinence should not be laughed at. We must offer more dignity and compassion to people.
Considering the main attack on Biden from the right is that he is too old, it’s fair game to do the same for Trump. They opened that can of worms.
According to your logic, we not only should be making fun of all old people now, but we should be doing it because trump did it first…
How does that make you any better than them?
Are you really that attached to mocking people for wearing a medical aid, that you seriously can’t put that to one side and criticise them for the actual harm they’re causing?
Remind me again how well “they go low, we go high” worked out for rational, non-insane people in the US?
This is absolutely an example of the paradox of tolerance.
I think it’s less about “going high” than it is not alienating people in your own group. You can’t make fun of disabilities on the other side (with the exception of a clinical lack of empathy) without the collateral damage of also making fun of people on your side with those disabilities.
I’m not going to be pulling my punches when this election going the wrong way could actually end democracy in the United States for the foreseeable future. And that has an absolute fuckload of horrifying knock-on effects both domestically and globally. As in, like, (more) concentration camps (remember the border patrol camps and the children they separated from families who STILL haven’t been reunited in a shocking number of cases), and they’ll probably put “political undesirables” in there this time too.
But god forbid we offend a few people.
To reiterate: it’s not a tactic I am excited about using. It is a dumb tactic. But Trump supporters are greedy, stupid, deeply prejudiced, or some combination thereof, without exception, and it’s a tactic that tends to work decently well on them. On that basis alone it’s fair game.
The paradox of tolerance does not exist. Tolerance is a social contract, not a moral imperative.
Acceptance of false paradox is what the intolerant and authoritarian want.
By rejecting it as false, it lays bare that the intolerant have rejected polite society and have made themselves open to be rightfully marginalized and ostracized.
If you don’t think the paradox of tolerance is real, I’m guessing you’ve never observed concern trolling from the far right. Which is weird, because they’ve been doing it all over the place, especially since 2016 or so.
Or, you yourself are concern trolling.
I’m not trolling.
The minute you allow intolerance to exist, you have lost.
Karl Popper framed it incorrectly. He makes it sound like a moral imperative and the hateful have seized on that.
If tolerance is a moral issue there is little that can be done about those who choose to be intolerant. Being moral is an individual choice.
It IS a social contract, howevet. If I want my lifestyle to be tolerated then I need to tolerate that of others, unless my (or their) lifestyle imposes unnecessary restrictions on the other.
For example, all the Christians whining about Christianity not being tolerated. They’re getting it wrong - nobody is saying don’t be Christian. They break the contract by imposing their specific values on everyone else by force.
There is a baseline on which the vast majority agree concerning appropriate behavior in society. Murder, for example, is generally considered wrong. We don’t tolerate it.
Breaking a contract has consequences.
Dude, that’s literally the paradox of tolerance.
They take advantage of the goodwill and social norms of the rest of the population in the interest of imposing their specific values on everyone else by force. They don’t believe that that sense of goodwill and social norms are things they have to abide by, but they recognize the power of exploiting a system against itself, and that power is very real. The initial stages of this generally involve aggressively exploiting the letter of the law, and often, working entirely contrary to the spirit of the law.
That logic makes no sense. Trump criticized Biden for being old, not “all old people”. If he is going to give that criticism, he should take it too. After all, he is almost as old and a lot less healthy as evident by his age related incontinence.
You are absolutely correct. The stupidity here, though, is that word got out that Trump uses them, and that has caused a lot of his supporters to start wearing them, whether they need to or not.
I guess I’m going to hell for laughing at this.
That doesn’t change the impact of participating in and perpetuating this circus.
And so our alternative is…? To ignore this rather quaint sociological phenomenon? To let it pass by, unremarked-upon? Is that how we make increments of improvement to our behavior and culture? What’s the take away? What’s the lesson here for us? How do we be better people when our opponents are literally caricatures of cartoon villains, who, every week, add another hilarious stereotype to their gestalt.
Remember: you’re talking to, and about, the species that is currently exporting a record number of voyeuristic reality shows that sell “engineered awkwardness” because sex doesn’t sell by itself anymore.
How do you un-fuck this up?
Fair enough.
I don’t think it’s the wearing of nappies that is worthy of ridicule. You are right, it’s a medical question, people who need it should wear it, and everybody else should just stfu about it. (Except perhaps in the odd case when medical conditions do come into question while assessing the fitness of a candidate to an office, especially such a high stakes and demanding one as the potus, but that’s by the by).
What is chilling is the followers of Trump who try to make a virtue out of it. And ridiculous. Laughing at them is the right response because the other option is utter despair.
Nominally, I agree. Trump and his die-hard supporters are the exception.
I understand that there will be splash damage. I regret that there is splash damage. But the fact remains that the objective is to sap support from his base, and from people who are (somehow) on the fence about him. That can be done by sharing these unflattering facts about him.
I get that it’s offensive. Again, I regret that the tactic has become necessary; but it HAS become necessary. This is a “pull out all the stops” situation. If it stops that fascist fuck from winning, I’m willing to live with being labeled as “intolerant” because I used his own tactics against him. I’m not reveling in this, or joyously clowning on those less fortunate than me. There is a specific reason why I’m willing to cross that line, and it’s “we might not have small-d democracy anymore if he wins”.
Heh heh heh heh. Splash damage.
But who does this actually convince that isn’t already swayed by his unhinged rants and abhorrent behaviors and policies? It’s no different than intentionally misgendering someone. “Collateral damage” that hurts the most vulnerable among us is not worth it just to bully someone you don’t like.
Let them make fools of themselves with this bizarre infighting, they really don’t need our help.
This is so detached from reality. The people who are on the fence will see this as childish, while his supporters are lost enough I don’t think any of them will care.
I’m sorry what? Do you understand the difference between, for example, mocking a blind person for using a cane and wearing dark glasses, and mocking people who think it’s cool and decide to start wearing dark glasses and using a cane while being perfectly sighted? Do you think that is a reasonable thing to do? Do you think it would be ableist to laugh at perfectly able people who are pretending to be disabled?
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You’re right. Trump should advocate for people who wear diapers. If he were a leader worth following that is. Let’s see Trump put vanity aside and an embrace his disability for the betterment of all.