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Some woman on the internet said she would feel safer spending a night in the woods with a random bear rather than with a random man

    • KillingTimeItself
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      37 months ago

      i’m just trying to figure out why this is becoming a colloquialism, i mean we’ve had would you rather for a while. But this is a very different format from it, and it’s rather, obtuse. Is the most polite way i can think to explain it.

      I hate that i enjoy sociology sometimes, this is one of those times. People suck.

    • @IsThisAnAI
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      -17 months ago

      🙄 peak internet

      Definitely no room for understanding what women go through while acknowledging the absurd shit tossed out there.

      • @inb4_FoundTheVegan
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        7 months ago

        It’s easy to say you understand, but if you think picking the bear is absurd, then you clearly don’t. There is a reason SO MANY women pick the bear without a second thought. It’s not a troll or a joke, but the reality that some random man who knows we are alone far from civilization is far far more dangerous than some random bear just existing.

        • @berkeleyblue
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          17 months ago

          No it’s ridiculous. The chance that a random bear out of the bear population attacks you, is infinitely more likely than a random man out of the male population does the same.

          The vast majority of people are decent human beings. While it is statistically supported that men are more likely to be perpetrators of violence against women than vice versa, saying that men are inherently dangerous oversimplifies and generalizes a complex issue. It is important to recognize that most men are not violent; the majority of interactions, even in isolated settings, do not lead to violence. The portrayal of men as inherently dangerous can contribute to fear and stigma that doesn’t necessarily align with the everyday experiences of many people.

          Tl;dr Please stop this sexist nonsense. If I would walk around and say women shouldn’t be allowed near the elderly or children because they are statistically more likely to commit child neglect and abuse, both against elderly people and kids, I’d rightfully be called a sexist. Statistically that is just as true as the statement that men are more often the perpetrators in violence against intimate partners (allthough men do get abused as well, about 1 in 10 compared to 1 in 4 for women).

          • @inb4_FoundTheVegan
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            7 months ago

            The chance that a random bear out of the bear population attacks you, is infinitely more likely than a random man out of the male population does the same.

            Flat out wrong. And you have to ignore just a mountain of statics and evidence to say this. There was about 60 bear attacks last year, but 1 in 5 women are assaulted by men. It’s easy to dismiss any and every discussion related to sexism as sexist, just as racist dorks say “BLM and CRT is racist against white people”. But it’s such a small narrow shelfish ignorant position.

            But I am not going to waste time with you, this thread already has ample sources for those stats and its gone on long enough. You can either listen to women, or continue to whine when they describe their experiences, but I’m done with reading these little outbursts from men who have nothing to contribute but “not all men” while misunderstanding and misrepresentating the question.

            • @berkeleyblue
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              17 months ago

              I’m happy to listen to their experience. I’m not happy to listen to useless generalizations that do not get us anywhere.

              It’s a ridiculous statement to say all men are dangerous and just wait to abuse someone. If you can’t see that right now, I’m sorry.

              Has nothing to do with BLM or CRT. I’m not American, no one here really cares about “race” whatever that even means in humans. People are people and should be treated as such.

              Generalization do not help anyone moving forward. It gets you dismissed and ignored, which certainly doesn’t help you create the platform women need on some issues.

              And to your stats: Please read the whole text. Not 1 in 5 women get assaulted by men a YEAR, 1 in 5 women have that happening to them within their lifetimes. That’s still masively to high, but it’s not what you seem to make it out to be here.

              I, unlike you, would be happy to talk about this. Maybe I’d learn something. But you seem far more interested in repeating talking points and be condescending to me.

              Unfortunate. But thank you for your time anyway.

              • @inb4_FoundTheVegan
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                7 months ago

                It’s a ridiculous statement to say all men are dangerous and just wait to abuse someone. If you can’t see that right now, I’m sorry.

                Never said that. Wouldn’t say that. Don’t think that.

                You’re just putting up a strawman to push over. Absolutely no where in this thread did someone say all men are dangerous, in fact I personally said the contrary many many many times.

                That’s still masively to high, but it’s not what you seem to make it out to be here.

                Again, I didn’t say 1 in 5 per year, that’s you inferring as another strawman. I knew what the stats were, and if we agree that 20% in their lifetime being the victim of SA is a lot, and that 60 something people attacked by bears comparitivly ISN’T many, then my original point stands. I intentionally did not link to any stats about per year because that number true number is unknown and likely wildly under outed as most events are not reported.

                Maybe I’d learn something. But you seem far more interested in repeating talking points and be condescending to me.

                This is an ironic thing to complain of when you condescendly assume I don’t know what my own links are about, but okay. You act like you’re trying to learn and have a reasonable discussion but all you’ve done is dismiss and make bad faith assumptions while dancing around the actual point, that way more women are harmed by men than bears.

                Not all men do this, but it’s immposible to tell the ones who do from the ones who don’t. There is good reason why women are wary of unknown men, we have a learned experience that dropping your guard can quickly lead to absolutely horrible outcomes. As I said before, 1 in 5 women have such experince.

                So compare this to a bear existing in the woods. Bears already do that, they generally mind their own business and only in rare cases attack humans. Sure there are probally SOME ultra aggressive bears out there, just like ultra aggressive men, but as a population bears are not actively seeking out women to harm. However there IS unknown invisible amount of men who are doing exactly that. Finding women who are alone and vulnerable. The question isn’t “who could do more damage to a woman, a bear or a man?” it’s who would you rather risk being alone with?

                Most women pick the bear because statistically, going to lead to better outcomes. If I come across the bear will likely keep fishing/gathering, the ways to run hide or scare it off are obviouse. But coming across a man in the woods is flat out scary, maybe they will help, but if they are a bad person, then my ability to hide, run or escape is VASTLY diminished against someone who is both as intelligent as I, but also probally much faster and stronger.

                Not every man would chase us down, but 20% of women have encountered men who WILL take opportunities when presented with them. Being alone in the woods away from defenses, civilization or any amount of assistance? I’ll be completely at his mercy It’s just not comperable situation against a bear.

                So if your interested in potentially learning something about a different perspective, than you need to actually do that instead of just going to the knee jerk dissimal “not all men are violent” which was never said in the first place.

      • KillingTimeItself
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        07 months ago

        unless you’re browsing a furry porn website apparently. Weirdly, i saw the MOST sane takes there.

        The internet is a mysterious place.

    • @endhits
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      -217 months ago

      Or maybe people don’t like being roped in with terrible people based on a part of them that they have no control over? Just a thought.

      • @[email protected]
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        97 months ago

        In this scenario the woman has limited information. She has no choice but to assume average chances of a man or a bear killing her, regardless of the individual.

        When you’re facing down a threat in the woods, how much they enjoy being stereotyped isn’t your problem.

        • @endhits
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          07 months ago

          If you believe you’re less likely to be in danger with a bear than a man, you’re just sexist.

            • @berkeleyblue
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              07 months ago

              Which would be?

              It’s nonsense. Out of 100 bear encounters about 1 turns violent. Now, how many men does the average women come in contact to daily and how many of them turn violent? I’m pretty sure the numbers are much, much lower than that for a bear encounter.

              My Wife walked passed approximately 1’000 just today. No one even talked to her in a weird way. This whole argument is just fear mongering with sociallly acceptable sexism. This doesn’t solve any problems.

              Also, statistically, strangers are the last people tk worry about. The overwhelming majority of abuse victims know their abuser or are even related. You should be more afraid to see uncle Frank and aunt Jenny in the woods than any random man.

              • @[email protected]
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                37 months ago

                This is a gish gallop so I’m just going to highlight that the scenario in question is alone in the woods, not walking past men on a busy street.

                Please consider that you might be getting defensive, and will misinterpret both the initial premise and any explanations as a result.

                • @berkeleyblue
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                  -17 months ago

                  Not at all. You said being alone in a forest with a man is more dangerous than a bear, and I said that’s statistically nonsense.

                  Just because I wrote more than 2 sentences, doesn’t make that a gish gallop.

                  There are 2 premises:

                  1. Bears are dangerous (I agree)
                  2. A random man in a forest is more dangerous to a woman than that bear (I strongly disagree)

                  I showed my numbers for that 1 argument and that’s it. I’m happy to be proven wrong, if you have anything more than “it just is”.

                  I’m not defensive I find this comparison to be simply ridiculous.

                  • @[email protected]
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                    27 months ago

                    Now, how many men does the average women come in contact to daily and how many of them turn violent? I’m pretty sure the numbers are much, much lower than that for a bear encounter.

                    My Wife walked passed approximately 1’000 just today.

                    The only person you’re fooling is yourself

    • @Gonzako
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      -497 months ago

      Yeah, the bear pick is the sneaky way women try to rob the average man of status by implying that we are mindless beasts willing to do the worst at the first chance we get.

      • @mrcleanup
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        307 months ago

        The fact that you think the point of this is your status and not someone else’s safety says so much.

        • @Gonzako
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          -147 months ago

          Because it is about insulting men. No one’s actually getting trapped with bears because they’re answering either way. It’s there to prove a view, would you rather be stuck with a bear or a black person? A gay person? A trans person? A jew? A Muslim?

          It’s there to rile up people about their prejudices and I’m just sad we’re all getting piled on like this.

          • @mrcleanup
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            187 months ago

            Look, I’m a man, I’m not feeling insulted by this at all. If you are, maybe it’s time to ask why.

            I have no problem being a man while also acknowledging that sexual assault by men is a problem that is big enough that it has created a “caution culture” where people teach their daughters to be vigilant and women will cross the street if someone is walking behind them to stay safe. It isn’t like this is overblown, studies vary but all agree it’s somewhere more than one in ten women are victims of sexual violence in their lifetime. That’s a non-dismissible statistic.

            Sure sexual assault by women is a thing too, but men tend to handle it differently than women do. All we are doing here is acknowledging that in our culture “male stranger danger” is a thing that exists and is pervasive and strong enough that many women would be willing to risk the bear because at least it won’t rape them.

            Why would you be taking that personally?

            • KillingTimeItself
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              27 months ago

              personally i’m not insulted, i get it, i understand the problems, but i also don’t understand this at all.

              It’s like it’s hyper polarized almost. The second someone says something or asks a question the response is almost verbatim “yeah but bear wont rape me” (incredibly shitty verbatim quoting but this isn’t a fucking PHD paper so dont @ me lol)

              Like i get that there’s a problem we should be talking about. Why aren’t we? We’re just reiterating the same statement over and over again, expecting for something to change suddenly.

              It’s almost an over abundance of caution, similar to “stranger danger” when in reality, the person most likely to abuse your children, is you or someone you know. Not just a random stranger. Which in it of itself can breed an anti-safety culture, where people aren’t concerned about people they know “because they would never do this” only to find out that, yes, in fact, they would do that.

              • @[email protected]
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                17 months ago

                I think hyper polarization is one of the greatest societal issues we face currently. Whether it be war of genders, politics, etc. We are losing the calm middle ground that should be the majority without outside influence.

                It’s so incredibly easy to polarize. We see it in this thread too. The top of this comment thread is a polarization too. Essentially dividing men into 2 distinct set of groups. You’re either good or a villain. This dichotomy is ridiculous and every social community eats it up like crazy, this Lemmy included. These create effects of over abundance, as you mention of caution, fear and hate.

                If anyone actually thinks that they’d be better off with an encounter with a wild bear than a man, they’re just stupid and insane. Just walking down the street, I encounter 1000s of men. If there were 1000s of bears, I’m sure no one would go there. But we’re not appealing to logic. We’re appealing to feelings that’s been derived from these polarizations and sadly I see no way for this to end.

                • KillingTimeItself
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                  37 months ago

                  It’s so incredibly easy to polarize. We see it in this thread too. The top of this comment thread is a polarization too. Essentially dividing men into 2 distinct set of groups. You’re either good or a villain. This dichotomy is ridiculous and every social community eats it up like crazy, this Lemmy included. These create effects of over abundance, as you mention of caution, fear and hate.

                  yeah, i just don’t understand how people engage in this and don’t feel even the littlest bit of fascist tinge to it, because this is how fascist power structures come into play. This is literally how they work. You have an in group, and an out group, anybody in the in group is loyal to you, and anybody in the outgroup is fucking dead.

            • @Gonzako
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              -17 months ago

              Well, because it’s prejudice being directed and reinforced towards us! I am the average man, and so are you! I am down for all the #metoo movements ya’ll need but it needs to be pointed towards specifics. I won’t allow to be put in the same cage I supportedsome people to get out of.

        • @Gonzako
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          -167 months ago

          https://youtu.be/SSVXbgR4JFs here’s my point better explained. You can reply the moment you feel like actually discussing and not dismissing me based on my gender.

          • Asherah
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            7 months ago

            gets called an incel

            posts incel shit in response

            • @[email protected]
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              7 months ago

              demands he isn’t dismissed based on gender

              Edit. I think people misunderstood. I was pointing out the irony of the incels comments.

            • @Gonzako
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              -27 months ago

              Man, I’m so glad I found people like contra points early in my life because you certainly aren’t helping. If you are a lonely man out there, it’s fine to feel alone and isolated. This worlds harsh and changing for the worst. Remember to keep your empathy, even for those that won’t give it to you back.