• ProdigalFrogEnglish
      6•7 months ago

      The hostile attitude and accusations will not be conducive to changing minds or furthering meaningful discussion, there’s room for nuance here.

      Biden is ultimately a typical neoliberal bastard, with all the negatives that brings. None of us want him, but realistically, no third party has a snowball’s chance in hell of winning with our current voting system. I don’t think any of us would blame you for sticking with your ideals in your vote regardless of that fact, but I don’t think it’s right to denigrate those who would opt for a practical harm reduction vote over an idealistic one that would ultimately result in a dictator taking power and absolutely wreaking even worse havoc on both people and the environment, especially as we are living in a period where there is no time left for the environment.

      We’re still not sure if there are extreme tipping points of no return climate-wise. If we assume for safety’s sake that there is, then it’s critical to prevent further warming, and I can’t blame anyone for choosing a lesser evil that has allowed meaningful climate legislation to pass, over one that is shopping around his willingness to destroy the planet for his own personal gain, and who has publically advocated for going full steam ahead with Palestinian Genocide.

      Ultimately we’re voting for scraps, and that’s all that’ll ever be, since no meaningful reform can come from within the system. But I don’t see any benefit to giving up those scraps for something far worse unless one advocates for accelerationism, which I personally don’t since it means massively increased suffering with no guarantee of better outcomes long-term.

      Saying all that, I do think doing anything beyond just tossing in a vote when the time comes, like volunteering for or financially supporting a political campaign is a waste of time and money that could be better spent outside of the political system.

    • @ReluctantMuskrat
      2•7 months ago

      With the primaries over you have two choices and they’re not even close to being equal.

      Throwing your vote away does nothing to advance the causes you’re most concerned about but stands a strong chance of allowing a fascist to be elected, one who will try to dismantle the democracy that permits your voice at all.

    • BennyHill500
      -1•7 months ago

      I gotta say its very funny to see a movement with punk in its name defend the establishment as much as this.

      They gotta keep choosing 99% hitler instead of 100% hitler and keep wondering why their country becomes more fascist every election cycle.

      • FiveEnglish
        3•7 months ago

        Martin Luther King Jr. cared about long-term moral issues and direct action rather than getting caught up in short-term electoral realpolitik. Lydon Johnson asked him to tone it down and wait until after the 1964 election against the much more racist candidate Barry Goldwater. LBJ promised him civil rights after the election, but MLK Jr. told him to suck it. He then refused to testify in congress in favor of LBJ’s civil rights bill because he was busy organizing marches in Selma.

        If you think all people who attack Joe Biden for enabling genocide are pro-establishment, you must also believe Martin Luther King Jr. hated civil rights and loved racism. (Based on who you were replying to and your tone, I misread who you meant by the establishment. Oops.)

        The majority of Solarpunks are similar to King, and we’re in the same position of not having the political clout to ignore the shallow understanding from people of good will he had to deal with in his day. “Why direct action, why sit-ins, marches, and so forth? Isn’t negotiation a better path?” and “our acts are untimely” are still questions we have to answer repeatedly. But excluding liberals from the SLRPNK server only shuts down lines of communication that can move us all forward.