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- cross-posted to:
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Electric Cars Are Already Upending America | After years of promise, a massive shift is under way::After years of promise, a massive shift is under way.
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In the EV age, cars are no longer just cars. They are computers.
oh no
Stripping out a gas engine, transmission, and 100-plus moving parts turns a vehicle into something more digital than analog—sort of like how typing on an iPhone keyboard is different than on my clackety old Samsung flip phone.
stop
“It’s the software that is really the heart of an EV,” DeGraff said—it runs the motors, calculates how many miles are left on a charge, optimizes the brakes, and much more.
stop, please
Just like with other gadgets that bug you about software updates, all of this firmware can be updated over Wi-Fi while a car charges overnight.
noooooooooooooooo
“It’s the software that is really the heart of an EV,” DeGraff said—it runs the motors, calculates how many miles are left on a charge, optimizes the brakes, and much more.
Its all the worst parts of owning an EV.
Seriously, give me a mostly-dumb EV and I’m happy as a clam. The best parts of an EV are not the software (those are some of the worst).
But you can’t. You need something to properly modulate the brake bias. You need something to translate the throttle to the motor. You need something to control the abs, stability control, etc.
Then, for cost savings, you need 1-2 simple screens to display information.
Bespoke retro/analog EVs will exist but they won’t be cheap because size they won’t sell well.
because size they won’t sell well
Looks like a typo, so I’m not exactly sure what you’re saying, but I’m going to guess you’re implying that the public prefers smart devices to less smart devices.
I don’t know if that’s true, but my understanding is that smart devices tend to sell better because they’re discounted and have better hardware features, because companies want to make money on selling your data (viewing habits, installed apps, etc). But I would have to dig deeper to look for evidence.
You need something… brake… throttle… abs, stability control, etc
And all of that is fine, and that’s what many cars do today. That’s not really what I or anyone else annoyed at.
Here’s what I don’t like:
- cryptographically paired, essential components (e.g. iPhone and MacBook do this a lot to prevent third party repair)
- infotainment systems that can’t be replaced/bypassed because they also control core functionality
- lack of diagnostic information - OBDII port isn’t required on EVs because they have no emissions
- tracking by manufacturer - if you can access your car remotely, the manufacturer can and will
Any of that should be opt-in, not a core part of the car. I don’t want to be locked into an ecosystem, limited in my ability to maintain and repair something I own, tracked, or forced to use their janky software. I want a vehicle that gets me from a to b, and the manufacturer shouldn’t know where a or b are, nor should they dictate what else I can do with the car.
I think we just haven’t seen the EVs hit the point where they are plentiful enough to be viable as 2nd hand vehicles that need innovative repairs.
It won’t be too long before we see current EVs stripped of their components and patched back together. Ford and others already offer their motors and control systems for purchase separately, so we know those components don’t require phone-home connectivity. It’s just a matter of piecing the parts together either homebrew or retrofitted to existing chassis that have been stripped and reassembled.
It’ll take a lot of re-engineering to make a Tesla repairable…
Some EVs are more repairable than others though, so hopefully there are enough so people who want to maintain them like term (i.e. me) can do so. If I can manually service everything except the battery pack without specialized tools or knowledge, I’m a happy camper.
A lot of “smart” devices are better off dumb.
It kind of annoys me when people say that expanded infotainment and self driving tech is an EV thing. It’s not.
LOTS of internal combustion cars are basically a rolling Android computer with OTA firmware updates. It’s been this way for quite a while now.
I’d rather have a real-time OS than android managing my car.
The car’s CAN bus is always driven by a highly available real-time OS.
The car’s infotainment is often Android-based.
Android (and to some extent Linux in general) is not suitable for hard real-time applications.
Exactly. The person I was replying to is overstating things, and giving too much credit to Android. Misrepresenting.
You don’t know how computers work.
I don’t really know much about cars but isn’t QNX already powering a lot of cars? I assume if Android’s powering anything, it’s just the entertainment system
That was my point.
…I’m hoping you aren’t being serious here.
I can’t wait to not own my car anymore and have all features preinstalled but not working because I didn’t pay enough.
Audi and BMW are doing this for a decade. A friend has an Audi and he cracked the infotainment to have all the smart drive things and sensors for parking
Yo ho ho a new sea to sail under the jolly roger yaharr
An optimist I see
I never thought people would be rogering their cars. XD
deleted by creator
XD Man, times have changed.
Wonder what they would do if found out. Would they brick the car remotely? Then would it be covered under insurance since the car is totaled if the CPU is bricked. That sure would be an interesting lawsuit to find out about the true ownership of a car.
I assume if you put custom firmware on the car, you’d either tamper with the antenna so this was not possible, or futz with signing keys so the car wouldn’t accept an OTA update from the manufacturer?
The problem is the first theft that everyone was too stupid to fight against. Emissions laws established that you don’t own your car when they required you to use OEM hardware. The state has every right to test what comes out the tailpipe, but has no right to tell you what you must purchase and install to pass the test. This is what killed the majority of the grassroots automotive hobby and surrounding businesses. You may not like mod car culture, but this was the first step in stealing ownership, just like “free” email and web searches are how an entire industry has the right to manipulate and now own us all by manipulation and exploitation of information.
That said, if the antenna is altered in any way, it simply will not work. Antennas are a funny, fragile thing. The main problem will be when you need to work on the car and the proprietary diagnostic tool requires the car to be on the latest firmware. This will make your car depreciate like a phone. It is neo-digital-feudalism.
It’s an old model, doesn’t have an antenna.
This is trend is happening regardless of whether or not the wheels spin because of batteries or little explosions.
We need to push for consumer protection for all vehicles.
Yup, but it’s easier to lock down an EV because they don’t need to include an OBDII port (no emissions), so there’s really no standards they need to adhere to. So they just remove pretty much all choice at the start so people don’t get mad later when they remove features in future models.
ICE cars need to do it more slowly to properly boil the frog.
Also my car updating overnight and the update broke my brakes and I am dead the next day.
How is this a transition, though?
I had a 1981 four-cylinder Ford Ranger that needed it’s onboard computer replaced so the damn thing would stop shuddering while idling. The thing had a damn carburetor, this was prior to fuel injection. Still had a small “computer” inside of it.
Computers have been in vehicles and managing parts of vehicles for forty fucking years or more.
The real transition is deciding that the electronic sensors are cheaper than physical sensors, despite physical sensors (often) being more accurate and less prone to failure.
They need to convince you it’s different so you’ll eat the $50/month subscription.
And even further back than that, the B-29 used computers for the remote controlled defensive guns that would provide bullet drop compensation for the gunner.
And even further back than that, the USN had highly advanced mechanical fire control computers to assist with naval artillery targeting of moving and stationary targets.
Exactly. My Volvo S60 is internal combustion and is basically a rolling computer.
Shit, yesterday some software crashed and caused the power steering to go out while I was driving. That was fun.
Having computers isn’t the problem, having remotely controlled computer with cryptographically paired components and limited user-accessible diagnostics is. If they can effectively control the software, they can force you into a subscription to access basic features and require you to visit their dealers to get service.
Transition in the same way it is for all software these days. The difference is the expectation of always on connections, constant telemetry, and continuous delivery of updates. That’s quite a bit different than the software model used for your 1981 Ranger. Though it’s not specific to cars.
This headline is weird.
How can it be both “already upending” and “after years of promise”. They seem like mutually exclusive concepts
Seems like, but I dont think they are. It’s like going from 0 to 60, it’s more impressive the faster it happens. We were promised EVs for years, and it’s like a fire hose was turned on instead of a slow trickle. Sorry to mix metaphors all willy nilly.
I like the technology but I don’t like the plans for implementation
That’s my stance as well. All of that sounds good to me, but it being a series of black boxes that I’m not legally allowed to fix or maintain is a nightmare to me. Worse them seen as a SaaS product because they hamstring us making subscriptions practically mandatory and worse allow for enshitfication in future.
in other news the economy is fantastic which is good because it means we can buy these vehicles and we have a president who is for the will of the people
fucking golden age for sure lets all buy a few electric vehicles
wut
Not sure if sarcasm or brainwashing.
