There is already a total count of up- and downvotes, but please never add karma to Lemmy. We don’t want to deal with karma farmers and minimal karma requirements to post. I don’t care about the moderation issues because karma brought more harm than good. Please never add that bloody dreadful thing to Lemmy. I already saw a bunch of people supporting adding karma to Lemmy, which will turn Lemmy into a cheap Reddit clone and karma-farming hell. Please, never add karma to Lemmy. I beg you. No more karma hell.
I’m gonna make my own instance with karma…once you hit a set limit your account is locked forever and your ip blocked for 30days…
Soon: “Karma’s getting too high. Time to go a’trolling!”
You’re banned after you get 300 positive votes, irrespective of how many negatives you have. Easy.
In the board game “Gloomhaven”, you pick a character class until you achieve your characters assigned personal quest, at which point that character is retired, a new class is unlocked and you get to pick a new character. Starting a new character is sometimes tough if you were attached to the other class abilities and enjoyed the current team synergy, but the rotation is a key part of the game.
So like, that, but reddit-style
That’s a great idea.
Genius 🤯
Love this. It’s sort of the same principle as outlawing billionaires.
I’m a Reddit mod. I absolutely needed to filter users by karma AND account age. The amount of bot posts is exhausting and impossible to keep up with without a filtering method. If the fediverse continues to grow, something will need to be implemented here too.
Have you ever thought that perhaps the reason that that there are so many bots posts on reddit is because of karma?
What exactly makes account with high karma trustworthy when we all know it can be easily botted and then sold?
That could have been the reason there were so many bots though, every new bot account needed to karma farm in order to become useful.
Why? You should let each post stand on it’s own merit.
First, account age is silly for Lemmy, as almost 100% of people on here will have an account creation date in June 2023 or later because this place was a ghost town before Reddit decided to kill the APIs. A month from now, is someone with an August 2023 join date automatically presumed to be a troll, or are they just someone making the switch from Reddit a month later than everyone else?
As for karma, neither negative karma nor positive karma really tell you anything about the poster:
For instance, people can make good faith arguments advocating for conservative political opinions, but because the user base skews pretty far left here, those arguments will be downvoted. A discussion forum that bans opposing viewpoints is useless, and the echo chambers on Reddit are something I’d love to avoid here.
Similarly, it’s also possible to effortlessly build positive karma. Simply copy/paste highly rated comments from the last time a common repost appeared on the feed, and chances are, your copy/pasted comments will get upvoted too. You can even automate it with a bot.
Karma meant nothing at Reddit, and moderators shouldn’t be using it for decisionmaking purposes. It’s useful for ranking posts and comments, but anything beyond that isn’t helpful.
Karma is largely useless. As others have said. Let an accounts posts stand for themselves. Not their general popularity. Just because someone is downvoted on the whole doesn’t mean they’re a troll. It just means their ideas are unpopular. But not necessarily wrong.
Kbin already counts upvotes and boosts, similar to reddit karma.
But it could perhaps be something that stays hidden for everyone but yourself and moderators (provided you are participating in their magazine, otherwise anyone could open a magazine to see everyone elses karma)I don’t see how filtering by karma combats bots whose whole job is to farm karma. Wouldn’t that just filter new bots until one of their posts takes off in some other community that does allow new accounts to post?
Hard disagree. If bots are concern, bot detection tools are the answer, not karma.
Can’t say I agree. I miss karma. Not because I want it, because I don’t care. But that imaginary internet point sure drives a lot of content - and even repeat content has a purpose to drive platform growth. I had like 1,000 subs and FREQUENTLY saw something for the first time that the tHiS iS a RePoSt people came out of the woodwork for.
Don’t worry, reposting will happen with or without karma! 😜
Not a bad thing imo. Not everyone spends all day on the internet. I probably spend more time than most people and I can’t tell you how many times I’ve seen a meme that’s new to me and half the comments are bitching about it being a repost.
Yeah, I recognized a lot of reposts, but also posts that apparently had been going around for months or years but it was my first time seeing them, even though I was on reddit for half of every day.
I also miss karma a bit. I can live without it but seeing a score is nice. I will behave the same with or without here on Lemmy though. For some reason, I’ve really found my voice here on Lemmy and am much more active then when I was on Reddit.
Still, that being said, I do feel a boost when I look at my comments and see that number lol.
You know something? Until you mentioned it with this thread, I hadn’t even noticed that karma wasn’t a thing here. That is how useless the karma system is.
I say let the community mostly manage itself through the voting, so the mods can only step in for the really bad stuff.
Maybe I’m missing something, but what was Karma more than upvotes minus downvotes?
The votes were not equal to karma. Karma wasn’t just subtracting downvotes from upvotes. They made a function that not every up- and downvote changed karma. It was a weird mathematical function. Karma was also used to limit you from posting on some subreddits. That’s the reason why I heavily dislike karma.
Karma was originally visible raw upvote / downvote tally. Reddit just obscured the upvote and downvote numbers to discourage manipulation for karma.
Limiting participation based on karma didn’t happen for a long time. By the time some huge subreddits took that step, it (or some other gatekeeping) was necessary to filter a lot of malicious users.
Kiiinda… You were limited on the amount of karma a single post or comment could raise or lower your accounts score. It’s not a complex algorithm by any means, just slightly convoluted.
It prevent things like mass-downvoting from counting much towards karma AFAIK, but that’s more/less the idea of karma. The exact way it was calculated had nothing to do with people trying to game it. Minimums to post in communities did mean spamming elsewhere just to be able to post where you wanted though and the economic worth of “trustworthy accounts” made karma a karma an issue. Upvotes - downvotes still functions for the latter purpose. If people decide the fediverse is worth scamming, then farming will be a thing. Right now, its a fairly small niche space with an average user who is more internet-savvy than most mainstream social media users, so its probably not worth the effort of trying to scam here yet…
I think it’s a very bad idea to have karma as well. It shaped reddits entire conversation structure to be all about karma farming, since people think a high karma number means higher status in the community.
I don’t see any positives with it. Let people’s comments stand on their own for what they say, not because they have high karma.
If someone wants karma they could host a modified instance where every post gets thousands of upvotes for free. Other instances can’t really verify whether that’s accurate.
Make a meme instance. Where every downvote AND upvote adds points whether its good or bad. Simply have the points called “sandwiches.” Don’t release it until next year on April fools.
Have a sandwich
Just sandwiched you dude
Can I be next? 🤤
I think that karma is an obstacle to free thought. People prefer to remain silent instead of expressing their opposing opinions while declaring ideas that are more in line with the prevailing opinion of the community than their own in order to gain karma.
Yup this is exactly why people like it. Nobody disagrees and when they do, you just downvote them to hell.
I think it’s primitive.
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You guys are forgetting about spam accounts, toxic individuals, trolls, etc. I think they need to take into account karma but just not show it.
How? You can’t see the difference between a troll and anyone who has an opinion that is different from the norm just by looking at downvotes. This just builds echo chambers.
I’m sorry to tell you that an equivalent of Karma existed from the very beginning (though rather than being Upvotes minus Downvotes, it was Boosts minus Downvotes until a few days ago due to a bug). It’s called Reputation and you can see it by viewing someone’s profile in kbin. At the time of writing this, your Reputation points seem to be at 443. Reputation isn’t being used for anything though, and while it can technically be tracked by anyone, lemmy hides that information so far.
[In fact, you can see who gave up- or downvotes to something and you can also see what someone up- or downvoted (or boosted, but that’s a given, since boosting is equivalent to retweeting). This information is out there for anyone to access who spins up their own instance due to how federation works, so the developer of kbin decided to make it public so people are at least aware of this fact.]
I’m sorry to tell you that an equivalent of Karma existed from the very beginning (though rather than being Upvotes minus Downvotes, it was Boosts minus Downvotes until a few days ago due to a bug). It’s called Reputation and you can see it by viewing someone’s profile in kbin.
kbin is rather new to the scene afaik, so I wouldn’t say reputation has been a part of it since the beginning, but the upvote/downvote records have probably been public since the beginning (idk), so calculating some karma equivalent with whatever preferred metric you wanted was always technically possible, but not socially relevant since average people wouldn’t do such.
Reputation is a kbin specific thing
Wasn’t the minimal karma requirement so someone couldn’t just make a new account and immediately hop back into a subreddit they were banned from to cause more issues? New accounts should only see that issue one time…
Anyway, that whole thing isn’t really useful here anyway, because i’m pretty sure if you host your own server you could just manipulate it to whatever you want it to be.
It was primarily about bot farms.
Lmao… The TOTAL karma one had was never important. They will still look at how many upvotes is next to their comment, because that’s a measure of attention. They still want attention.
It won’t make a difference if you can see your total karma or not, ppl will farm upvotes.
I have never been sure what the point of caring about karma is. Pretty much it only gives a rough idea of how long an account has been open and how active it’s been. 5, 50,000, 500,000? 5 Million? Who cares. It’s not like you can do anything with it besides see the number change. I never have really seen anyone comparing karma or caring about other people’s scores.
The only real thing it did was set a way for subs to disallow posting by new/troll accounts. There could easily be a way for lemmy to calculate a sum of votes on someone’s most recent posts if people thought that was a useful or desired feature.
It was a way for people to visibly see some kind of validation. Whether it was validation that their ideas were appreciated, or validation that their trolling was successfully pissing people off, validation that someone simply saw and acknowledged their thoughts, or something else…I believe people intrinsically like assigning a visible numeric score to their efforts.
I’m not arguing for karma, and certainly not arguing for it here. But I understand why people like it.
For sure, all those reasons. I didn’t really care what my karma total was, but I would look at other users karma before deciding to get into a debate just to get a sense if they were a troll, karma whore, or regular joe. Sort of gave you a quick picture of who you were talking to. FWIW, I don’t miss it as a feature at all.
I paid attention to it in the short term for those reasons - like, did anyone see my recent posts? Approve of them? Disagree/chastise me? A suitable substitute would be something that gave you a sum for the past 1-3 days. The running total was never very meaningful to me.
True, “Karma” doesn’t mean much unless you can refine “Karma” statistics, e.g. upvote/ downvote ratio, “karma” trend against time graphs, last 30 days net “Karma”, filter “Karma” statistics specific to community/instance.
Still, you can’t stop someone from selling a 5 million “Karma Points” account to trolls, so I disagree with showing “Karma” like Reddit.
I also hope awards are never added. Reddit had sooooo many and it was really annoying in the end with all the flashy, distracting “awards” on the comment sections.
I’ve already seen people crying about their posts not getting upvotes or whatever. People will do the stupidest things for magic Internet points.
tbf it’s still important because it what decides if and how long you show up under Hot, which means more eyes and discussion on your post
I get that it’s good to have as a way to find topics with discussion or whatnot. I’m more commenting on the fact that people have, do, and will continue to lose their shit about upvotes :).
Amen. There is not a single purpose for a “karma counter” to exist other than to promote toxic behavior between other users.
“But what about griefers?!”
Report button exists for a reason – you don’t need to bust a griefer twice.
It’s so people can judge how other people receive their post. If I take a picture it can give a dopamine hit if people upvote it, and at least tell me it needs work if people downvote it.
