This is why we should make sure to vote in every election, not just the presidential one. It’s about preventing fascists from getting there in the first place by weeding out their support system.
The tendrils of fascism are already in the government. Voting will not solve that. It will do harm reduction, but it’s no panacea to the long engrained fascism in this country.
Yeah. Vote harder.
Not voting is so brave. It must be really hard.
I never said to not vote. Vote if you like. But it doesn’t matter. Voting never was, and never will be enough.
Negative votes for saying the exact same thing as the second top comment lmao
It is not the same thing. “Voting doesn’t matter” is different than “voting is not enough, but still vote.”
Voting is not sufficient, but it is necessary
It’s the least effective and simultaneously most vital civil action.
Ultimately, there’s no reason the strategies of voting and direct action can’t both be applied together. One does not cancel the other out.
It’s like you didn’t even look at your own pamphlet. It backs up his exact statement.
Why is it necessary? Wouldn’t direct action be sufficient for change?
You forgot the next sentence:
The problem is that so many people think of voting as their primary way of exerting political and social power that a disproportionate amount of everyone’s time and energy is spent deliberating and debating about it while other opportunities to make change go to waste. For months and months preceding every election, everyone argues about the voting issue, what candidates to vote for or whether to vote at all, when voting itself takes less than an hour. Vote or don’t, but get on with it! Remember how many other ways you can make your voice heard.
Idk man, theres not too much debate on who to vote for. There’s a clear lesser evil and theres an avowed fascist. The quoted paragraph just reaffirms what his one sentence says, that voting isn’t sufficient.
I like the pamphet. I think it hits most everything important. If you only vote and the entirety of your efforts are spent on electoralism and not direct action, its a lot if wasted time. But if you cant even take 20 mins to vote every 2 years, or worse you’re advocating people who aren’t fascist sit it out, you need to rethink what you’re doing.
The goal is to let people know that voting isn’t enough.
Voting isn’t enough, but it is the bare minimum.
Eventually, the bare minimum won’t be enough.
Voting isn’t enough, but it is the bare minimum.
Eventually, the bare minimum won’t be enough.
Voting isnt enough, but it is the bare minimum.
Eventually, the bare minimum won’t be enough.
Not substantial enough changes unless you’re capable of overthrowing the state. Direct action works best when the state is mostly uninterested in what you’re doing, it’s significantly harder if the state is actively opposed to what you’re doing.
Voting isn’t about solving everything, it’s about making it slightly easier to do direct action. Participation in bourgeois elections is important precisely because it’s never going to get rid of capitalism. It’s the one method of slightly influencing the systems used to opress and undermine working class struggles. You aren’t going to fundamentally change anything by voting, but elections influence how openly and strongly the state opposes direct action.
You don’t throw away a tool just because it doesn’t have much impact, you just use it where it can be slightly helpful.
Great comment.
You are playing into this issue of voting taking up more time than it deserves just as much as anyone you’re criticizing. Time wasted on debates about if you should vote or not partially happens because you’re making a big deal out of not voting instead of engaging in direct action.
Some think that voting is enough. I don’t think it matters without organizing and direct action.
Those reading this should stop and consider why anyone would discourage you from voting.
Those reading this should stop and consider why capital would encourage you to vote.
I will reiterate that you can vote if you want to, but it will not defeat fascism, only organization and action will. Please, prove me wrong.
Oh, that’s easy.
I want you to vote because last time we let Republicans win they stacked the Supreme Court the way we all said they would before the election and my wife and daughter’s lives got more dangerous.
I did vote, and will vote Joe Biden again. And my wife and daughter’s lives got more dangerous too. But that will not be enough to stop the fascism that’s here. The Republicans will continue to consolidate power and they will win more elections. Voting will never be enough.
Well I’m down with that. Voting does not preclude you from doing other things.
I’m touchy from all of my time on Reddit leading up to elections. SHITLOADS of comments and posts seemingly suggesting that we shouldn’t even bother voting.
Yeah from what I see they normally meet every “go vote” with “voting isn’t the best way to do this”, but forget to include a “however, it’s the only real way short of a full revolution to prevent the worse”
It will - ifanything - only delay the worst and will draw attention away from building towards a revolution.
Look at OP’s posting history, and they are one of them.
You got me. My 7 month account is the reason Hillary lost to Trump. It was me. And when Trump wins in 10 months, or Tucker Carlson in ‘28, or Nick Fuentes in ‘32, also me. I’m the reason.
Do you not see how saying “Voting doesn’t work” might encourage people to not vote, or do you think pointing at nebulous solutions with no defined call-to-action generates community participation?
Put a link to an organization that you think will help, and ask them if they think voting does nothing.
Voting for liberals over fascists will buy more time to organize and slow the descent into fascism. You’re correct, it won’t stop it, but if your analysis stops right there and you don’t take every easy win you can in the fight against Capital, you’re LARPing.
At some point; the left is going to have to recognize that climate change necessitates an expeditious transition. The sooner, the better.
Yes, so not voting will make it certain that we never get the chance to transition. Voting alone won’t work, just like grassroots organizing alone won’t work. Both can work, but only together.
The least people vote only helps the fascists
Pinochet, the dictator who assassinated the elected president and violently took over Chile with US assistance was removed from power by a vote. For years his political opponents had even been sent to concentration camps that are still around to this day.
Forgot to mention that the coup was on Spetemer 11, 1973. Pinochet had been in power for about 15 years by the time the vote happened.
In order to help get the youth to vote No and end Pinochet’s reign, the campaign created a pop song.
Great. You proved me wrong. Now I don’t have to worry about fascism in America now. Thanks.
Then this election in America is not a big deal and it won’t matter if we vote third party. Right?
You don’t lose anything by voting so you might as well do that at least.
Voting is great. but when the whole landscape is shifting, you cant vote your way out of a narly political regime.
That’s how Chile got rid of Pinochet
“Stringing up from lampposts” worked really well at the end of WWII.
Vote? Shit we’re just about at eugenics for this problem.
Thanks. At least someone recognizes the threat we face.
Now this is a message I would support projecting on the moon 😹
