What’s your take on his points? I wholeheartedly disagree with him but I don’t know how to properly voice why. I wanna hear what you guys have to say.
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Profiling and tracking do not - I repeat - do not serve your convenience. Showing you ads that you are likely interested in means a higher chance to sell you things you don’t want. Mixing in private messages etc and feed it into an LLM will result in extremely targeted advertising with highly convincing content.
Just imagine how much public good could be done if the professionals designing advertisements for maximum mental hijacking for corporate enrichment were doing something good for society, like providing therapy.
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This whole fuckin video is bonkers.
I’m looking for, I get targeted Google ads about camera stands from Adorama and B&H Photo that do match my criteria. I like that when I get into a rabbit hole about traveling to Singapore or buying a new laptop, all of the content that I get fed is relevant to what I’m interested in.
He picked out the one instance where high-powered advertising produces a positive result, while ignoring the 90% of it that is sinister in some way. Big categories of that:
- Creating a need that didn’t exist before by manipulating people
- Bending the nature of the underlying content to its ends (producing news that communicates the message rich people want expressed to the masses, instead of informative journalism) (producing TV shows that lull people into a stupor so they’ll be susceptible to the ad breaks, instead of that which will wake them up and create genuine engagement and a vehicle for creative expression) (disrupting people’s use of social media to communicate so as to manipulate them into being better consumers) (etc).
- Providing a way for someone who makes a worse product but has more money to spend to promote their worse product over a better one that doesn’t focus as much on marketing
You can join me or not in my tinfoil-fit view, but I would say that 90+% of the impact of advertising is one of those things, and a very very small percentage of it is what he’s talking about, good honest people who make good honest products and just want to laser-focus on customers who happen to want those products and make it easy for them to find out about them. Personally I’m pretty skeptical that these things with seeing ads for camera stands or his Singapore trip actually happened that way, but even if they had, it formed a very small percent of the ways that advertising impacted his world that day.
5 or 10% of the time, Google and Facebook miss the mark and they show me ads that I’m not actually interested in or recommend videos that aren’t even relevant.
5 or 10 per cent, yeah? You must be fascinated by ads for things. Personally they form an offensive tide of bullshit against my own mental landscape, 95% or so of which I’m not interested in.
Something else that I wanted to note is that this effort has not only led to better advertising but better everything. This is the primary reason that the UI and experience on apps and services like Chrome, YouTube, Instagram, Snapchat, and TikTok are so good
What in the ever lasting fuck are you talking about
Pretty much every single time that ad-supported-ness comes into the equation, the service gets worse then it was without it. BBC is better than Fox News. Mastodon is better than Facebook. Craigslist is better than everything. When the service is designed to be good, it’s good, and when it’s designed to draw ad revenue, the “being good” part of the goal becomes, by definition, secondary. I won’t say the two are always incompatible, but specifically with the examples he lists, they’re largely incompatible, and being good has become secondary.
I can kind of be charitable about what he’s saying, and agree that Chrome’s UI is superior to some purely-open-source browser that doesn’t have the same level of funding, or that Youtube is more reliable and performs better than some bodged-together video service. But I cannot possibly fathom the kind of brain that would look at the modern world and use TikTok or YouTube as examples of things that are “so good” and lead to “better everything.”
Among other things, the designed-to-be-addictive-to-drive-advertising-revenue nature of how they’re designed creates real harm in the real world. Youtube dopamine loops trap young kids whose brains aren’t developed, and playing with tablets all the time fucks up their brains. If you’ve been around kids in the modern world you’ve seen this. Political advertising and shill-friendliness on social media produces bad political outcomes that cause genuine tragedies in the real world. Few people involved in creating those products seem to give a shit about any of that, because they’re so focused on maximizing ad spend. I would not describe that as “better everything.”
To me this is the real harm in the system he’s defending. It’s not that tracking a person for advertising to them, in itself, creates that much harm in every case. It does sometimes, but his short-sighted view of the problem that it’s often fine, is actually valid. But the wider scope of letting advertising rule our modern world even though it’s objectively making everything shittier for no benefit to everyone (except making money for a handful of people who don’t need any more), is a very big problem, and defending that system because one particular aspect of it isn’t the part that’s really hurting people seems obviously wrong.
Yeah people like him are the reason we are where we are with this dystopian internet.
Thanks for putting it so well. I’d give you reddit gold but I only have this rock: 🪨 Maybe it’ll comes in handy one day!
PS: Consumerism also drives climate change and the potential genocide of many or even all people of earth.
Even the positive result in your first point I am skeptical of. Advertisements have a huge selection bias on what they show you. Even if it’s the topic you want, I’d be concerned about correctness, reasonability, viability. The highest bidder shows me ads, does that mean it’s the most expensive option? Most wasteful? Most manipulative into other spending or into vendor or thinking lock-in?
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Me personally seeing or not seeing ads doesn’t change the fact that good online news outlets are going out of business because the wholly-internet-ad-supported business model doesn’t support honest journalism, kids spend their time watching devices designed to get them addicted to the flashing colors instead of something designed to help them, etc etc and so on. Did you read my message?
I see a pretty small number of ads also, but if you took away from that that my main complaint is that I personally see a lot of ads, I think you should read it again.
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I think there’s been a misunderstanding. I read the OP, it seemed to me like he asked a relevant question about the linked video, I did my best to answer his question from my POV because I like talking about this stuff and I’m self-centered enough to think that my POV on it might be something other people might like to read.
To me, there are more valuable things in the world than tons of good videos. The systems that you “do not care” about, help to maintain the nice world that you live in, and whether you’re aware of it or not, failing to take good care of them will eventually impact your cushy existence. But, you’re free to believe me or not about that, and to value whatever you choose.
You don’t need to tell me any more about your value decisions, though, because I don’t share them and I don’t plan to start. Good luck.
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Before watching the video:
Somebody else “not caring” about being tracked is only a valid response as long as their lack of care doesn’t affect me. With social networks like Facebook, which create social graphs based on self-reported connections, I am affected.
Maybe other people have the
privilegeluxury of not caring, but hardly everybody does. Even a totalitarian dictatorship can be comfortable to the person at the top.No, though. Somebody doesn’t make a video to tell you that they don’t care. They make a video to convince you not to care too.
After watching the video and trying not to cover what other commenters have said:
I nailed it. The video is clickbait, literally a case encouraging you to opt in to tracking. Saying Facebook knows your political opinions but it’ll keep them safe, without mentioning Cambridge Analytica.
I found it funny that “Verizon buys ads on Google” was an example of Verizon not getting your data, but Logically fails to mention Verizon collects all your data too if you use their services (often all your web browsing). Verizon isn’t an ad company, so what gives? He later flashes up an example of Verizon giving data to the government. No connections were made here.
Another example: This video asserts corporations only gather your data for ads, and only use the data internally. Reddit is selling user data to AI companies. That’s not advertising data. And that’s not being kept safe.
Saying advertising is targeting people in a way never seen before, then saying the opposite, “this has always been going on.” No, Logically, when you watch traditional TV, it does not watch you back like ads do.
The final argument for Surveillance is a false dichotomy b
It assumes Big Tech companies are both inevitable, and also interchangeable with the idea of technology in general. “We can’t reject computers, therefore Google Maps needs to work better” – no. It’s not the binary that’s presented.
This is a very important point most people don’t give a single thought to.
Same principle applies to Meta having my contact data because other people use their products and have me saved on their phone. That shouldn’t be happening in the first place.
(The GDPR deems it illegal when it happens in a professional context, so there’s that, at least)
you have to protect yourself when you give data to people. disposable numbers, emails, po boxes, etc. frens and family, they do not give a damn, and will give every single big tech Corp all of your information.
I’m gonna be honest, I can’t stand this argument.
Yes, the people I send a message to are the last and weakest link in a long chain of making the transfer of that message happen.
But that doesn’t mean all the other links are irrelevant.
i never meant or said that. i meant that you should protect against all links in the chain. so, i agree with you
I misunderstood, then. Sorry for that, my reply was a bit angry
no worries, this topic is very frustrating…
I’m just glad I checked the comments here before wasting even one second watching the video.
Boot licker.
That isn’t unpopular opinion unfortunately. Otherwise the world wouldn’t the way that it is right now. We live in a surveillance apparatus that shapes our behavior. Nobody really cares except for the fringes of society.
If you poll people if they care about their privacy of course they will say yes. That is a rather superficial question. When you start polling in meaningful manner such as the uses of personal data the more the opinions become mixed. Some people really do think tracking and ads can provide them useful services. Such a rapacious form of capitalism is the prevailing mode of our time.
I think to some people the concepts of behavioral modification is too sci-fi to be believable. The topic sounds too much like ramblings of a conspiracy nutter about mind control. For others probably they think they’re smarter than psychological conditioning.
This has to be ragebait, absolutely ridiculous
was my thought too. clickbait and ragebait
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https://piped.video/cxpmACPA1s4
Piped is a privacy-respecting open-source alternative frontend to YouTube.
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Well, he doesn’t care that facebook tracks him, and you apparently don’t care that
youtubesorry, google tracks you.What do you mean by that?
