Whenever someone posts a meme like this all the “vote harder” people come out of the woodwork to get mad at the OP. I’ve never told people not to vote, but I do 1000% believe that voting is the absolute least you can do to progress society.
Edit: don’t bother reporting OP for this meme because I’m not gonna take it down.
Same. I’ve literally said I’d vote for Biden, but I still get accused of supporting Trump by conservative and centrist Democrats. They’re willing to hand-wave atrocities for the sake of a campaign. I’m not willing to overlook the suffering caused by our current administration, nor to deflect blame onto others.
Though I have pushed back against the idea of sitting out this presidential election or voting 3rd party I am 100% on board with your approach. Definitely call out this sickening support of genocide, protest, write letters, and whatever else one can do. Longer term, also work on getting something better than first past the post and this stupid electrical college BS. And come Nov, don’t let Trump in.
I’m only voting for Biden if we’re actually allowed to put him on blast for his atrocities. It’s appalling how cultlike and defensive the Dems have become.
What are you trying to say, the abyss is staring back at voters?
I’m saying the entire system is rotten, and it can’t be fixed by voting for the lesser of two evils, when the lesser of two evils is still a genocidal maniac
I’m all for protesting and fighting for active change. My fear is it turning into a bunch of progressive voters protesting with their vote and the destruction that could create in the advancement of progressive views say ten to twenty years from now. If somehow trump is reelected the results will be disastrous. That’s not an excuse for Biden and certainly shouldn’t be a platform for him or any other Democrat. Showing the electorate that their is a strong reliable voting block of progressives through support of policy and candidates will promote a progressive shift over time. While not nearly perfect that has been on display for years now. Candidates are going to continue to try to secure votes, it’s what they do. Republicans are in crazy fascist mode because their is a reliable voting base that loves the narcissistic hate and racism. Young and old progressives, but especially young, voter’s showing they are reliable voters will provide a foundation in which the party is incentivized to put up more and more progressive candidates. The reliance on republicans who are never trumpers and racist bigoted independents prevents true progressive candidates from being successful politicians. The only fix available in the current day climate is to show a stronger and growing progressive voter base. I am of the belief Nikki Haley is positioning her self as the defecto candidate come next election cycle and she’s nearly as concerning as trump. I am really hoping that Biden is able to secure the election and progressive’s show engagement not only on the primary but also down year elections and these same social protests outside of election years so a more progressive candidate can come forward. A shift has to happen, no party is going to put up a candidate that hasn’t shown their is a reliable pool of voters for.
I’m all for protesting and fighting for active change. My fear is it turning into a bunch of progressive voters protesting with their vote and the destruction that could create in the advancement of progressive views say ten to twenty years from now. If somehow trump is reelected the results will be disastrous.
Oh my gods, a comment actually worth engaging with! Thank you! I want to hug you so much right now lol
I understand this fear, but conversely I have the fear that in the process of trying to avoid this scenario, centrist Democrats are pushing progressive and leftist voters away from the polls by doubling down and dismissing our concerns every time that their raised, and by accusing us of hurting the campaign when we criticize the sitting president for putting the weight of his administration behind things like ICE, the border policy, mass surveillance of citizens, arming genocidal states, failing to introduce adequate healthcare and housing to our citizens, etc., etc. In 2020, all we heard was a chorus of liberals proudly proclaiming that they’re not as cultlike as Republicans, but as soon as Biden took office … this all changed. It was like a switch flipped, and as soon as he started opening more concentration camps and we were like “WTF,” we got the defensive response … like, “Oh he’s only doing this to satisfy conservative voters” – well guess what? Using human lives like that for political gain is not acceptable. Anyone with the slightest bit of empathy and perspective can tell you that.
And it’s only gotten worse since then, with us being summarily dismissed as “Russian bots” on every forum, and “Trump supporters” like wtf bro.
The only fix available in the current day climate is to show a stronger and growing progressive voter base.
Okay, but as I’ve said, every time we try to show this and express this, we’re silenced, so can that shit like … cease? That would sure be nice! But even for this pretty moderate, vanilla post my instance admin/mod received multiple reports from users trying to get it removed. Why? Because they are status quo warriors who don’t want to engage with progressives and leftists openly and in good faith. Simple as that. (Or they’re simply brainwashed and don’t really think things through, or some of them are actually closet conservatives – I’ve encountered a lot of Democrats like that in my community).
A shift has to happen, no party is going to put up a candidate that hasn’t shown their is a reliable pool of voters for.
And after decades of observing and experiencing, including volunteering and passionately campaigning for Obama in 08, thinking finally we had a progressive candidate, only for the bait-and-switch to happen yet again – I’ve concluded that the system will never provide this. It cannot be fixed from within. I still vote in every election, including local elections, but I have zero faith in the efficacy of my vote, and maybe the day will come to actually boycott the vote, though I don’t think that time is now.
Meanwhile, I try to practice my anarchist principles as much as I can in South Dafuckingkota and do my best to help my friends, relatives, and neighbors. We’ve managed to help people evade deportation, given people a roof when they’ve been evicted, helped my LGBTQ+ community when they’ve been kicked out by their parents, and try to have conversations with my local reps to hopefully push things to a better place.
But again, I have zero faith in our system. If you take a look at our nation historically, we’ve always been a colonial, imperialist, and genocidal state, and none of this has ever changed, and never will by voting, in my opinion.
So now, do you understand my perspective? Let me know if you have any questions, because I’d be happy to answer them.
Easier to get mad at OP than it is to challenge their own views, biases, and insistence on wilful ignorance… ¯\(ツ)/¯
Gigachad behaviour
Collateral damage from drone strikes went up 800% under Trump before his admin stopped reporting that data
Lmao I don’t think anyone’s arguing that trump isn’t a shithead.
Point is both are genocidal imperialist parties. The US political system only exists to protect capital and imperialism after all, since its government has been the de facto leader of the imperial core since WW2.
Why the fuck are these people our only two choices? Like can we just stop with the lesser evil bullshit and just pick other people?
Unfortunately, the only US president who tried to do something half-decent, JFK for wanting to abolish the CIA and giving an anti-imperialist speech titled “Imperialism: the Enemy of Freedom” to seemingly curtail the US’s invasions in foreign countries, made himself an enemy of both the political parties, and was thus assassinated by the CIA.
Like I said, political systems in the imperial core, specially in the US, only really exist to protect capital, while giving a thin veneer of “democracy”.
Seeing how the US gov has gone so far that it’s committing a(nother) genocide, I personally expect any actual change to come from mass organization, pressure and agitation from organizations outside it forcing change, perhaps aided by existing ones like the FRSO or PSL. Ideally they’d overthrow this imperialist government altogether but hoping for that in the imperial core is probably being too wishful.
You’d be surprised. Seen so many arguing that they should be protesting him too, because it’s totally possible trump the deranged sociopath could be swayed.
Ruh roh, looks like I’m a rUsSiAn BoT because I criticized our genocidal president ¯\_(⊙︿⊙)_/¯
Arming a genocidal regime and imprisoning and murdering innocent refugees at the southern border is just normal after all, and I just need to be rEaLiStIc becuase it’s so hard simply not to commit multiple human rights violations
Definitely, and what’s your thought on the guys from cpac saying they want to end democracy and jan 6th was a good first try?
Those present and agreeing including members of the last cabinet.
It’s all the same.
End which democracy? We don’t have a democracy if my only choice is deciding between two genocidal maniacs
And the electoral college can overrule your vote.
I believe so called democracies around the world are a farce but the US’ “democracy” is so shameless about how they do it that Im surprised most people doesnt seem to realize.
It’s a horrible system, yeah. When people tell me I “have no choice” but to vote for a candidate like Biden, I don’t think they have a shred of self awareness. They’re basically admitting that this is a blatantly undemocratic system. I start to think that they just don’t really care about using people like immigrants or Palestinians as political pawns, and then it makes me feel like maybe the entire human race is simply awful.
Quick question: would you pull the lever?
Burn the trolley and rip up the tracks
Very clever, how do you plan to do that in the 2 seconds before the trolley passes?
Throw a log at the tracks.
I understand the logic that not voting might give the presidency to Trump but its also a good way to expose the falacy of our “democracies”. The less participation there is the harder it gets to keep the lie.
Theres a reason why Australia made voting compulsory.The less participation there is the harder it gets to keep the lie.
This is just wildly naive. The less participation the easier you are to manage. Why do you think the GOP goes so hard on voter suppression and gerrymandering?
Their voter suppression is meant to stop from voting a very specific and relative small group of people not comparable to what an organized sabotage of the elections would be.
Gerrymandering is meant to dilute the vote of those who are already voting in favour of one party and its an example of how fallacious your democracy is.I already admitted that I might be wrong, but something must be done to change this and believing you can fix a rigged game by playing it, is also naive.
Another clever solution, but where’s the log? I don’t see one there, and the trolley is too close for you to have time to go off to find one.
What even is the log in this scenario, another insurrection? Not voting isn’t throwing a log, it’s just not pulling the lever.
What makes you think the accelerationist position of “exposing the fallacy” would actually make anything better? It’s very possible, I’d argue probable, that it would just make a lasting fascist regime more likely. What reason do you have to believe that a more transparent lie would be enough to make people actual do anything different?
Personally, I don’t think that’s a gamble with very favorable odds.
What even is the log in this scenario, another insurrection? Not voting isn’t throwing a log, it’s just not pulling the lever.
As I see it, the lever is the choice being made, in this case dem. or rep., the tracks are the electoral system and the log is the third option they dont want us to give and have taught us it doesnt exist.
In a true democracy we should be able to say “we dont like options given, do better” but those voices are conveniently ignored.What makes you think the accelerationist position of “exposing the fallacy” would actually make anything better?
The first step in demanding the true is to realize you’ve been lied to. If everyone is voting it must mean that they agree the system works because people dont usually waste time in tasks that they believe are fruitless. I believe people will realize something is wrong with their “democracy” when its minorities choosing for everyone else and start demanding true democracy.
Also, the fact that they, the rulling class, seems to be afraid of it. As I mentioned before, australia making vote compulsory when the numbers were geting “too low for comfort” is a good example.Personally, I don’t think that’s a gamble with very favorable odds.
Its possible it could backfire, yes. And, as I said in another comment, right now wouldnt be the best time to do it. Vote, but be aware that the system you participate in is just mitigating the symptoms of a desease and not treating it. Pretending otherwise is not a good gamble either.
Actions must be taken to change it. An organized effort to sabotage the elections by not voting could be one option.And you forget the fact that even if most people votes theres a chance trump will still win. Even if biden gets the popular vote, just like it happened in 2016. Who will you blame then?
The way these types of conversations can get so heated is an indicator that people is still not placing the blame where it should be. People need to be shown the truth, which is hard when our whole lives we’ve been “educated” to believe a lie, and again, I think electoral sabotage is a good attempt at that.In any nation with first past the post elections, like the United States, Leftists have exactly one rational voting strategy:
Step 1. Identify the two front-runner parties, and determine which of the two is further left relative to the other.
Step 2. Vote for that party in every single election (don’t forget midterms and local elections). Encourage everyone you know to do the same.
Step 3. Once the (relative) left party has an overwhelming majority (over 2/3) and the relative right party becomes vanishingly irrelevant (under 1/3), then split the (relative) left party into its own relative left and right.
Step 4. Repeat steps 1-3 with these new front-runner parties.
Step 5. Iterate step 4 until your relative left party passes election reform such that elections are no longer susceptible to Duverger’s Law.
Certainly try to push for reform within the relative left party between elections and during primaries, but at the ballot box the above is the only rational strategy. Voting third party, or refusing to vote the lesser evil, is not a rational strategy.
I just don’t see what any of this has to do with correctly pointing out that our sitting president is complicit in genocide among other atrocities. Do you think we should only say nice things about him and that we should respect him no matter what? Because this is not gonna happen. I’m a bad person, but I’m not so bad that I’m willing to tolerate genocide or the victims of our manufactured border “crisis.” Fuck all of that completely.
The only reason I see any point in voting is if we can demand more of the president. Are you part of a cult? Because unquestionably following a leader and shielding him from all criticism on the grounds that someone worse might win is straight up creepy and cultlike.
We have more than two seconds, and what does this have to do with criticizing a sitting president? Explain. I’m not allowed to highlight the atrocities his administration commits?
Edit: You have to kill the person, and you aren’t allowed to complain about it either. One way is “murder the people” and the other choice is “murder the innocent person #Pride #BLM” – we’re not allowed to talk about how colossally shitty it was to establish this trolley system in the first place?
We have more than two seconds
Not in the trolley scenario you don’t. But in the situation it represents, how do you, personally, plan to “burn the trolley and rip up the tracks” before November?
what does this have to do with criticizing a sitting president?
Fomenting electoral apathy in the conscientious portion of the population just before a close election empowers the candidate preferred by the non-conscientious portion of the population. I’m all for criticisms, but leftist infighting, and refusing to “big-tent” with neo-liberals in election years, only benefits the right.
The opposition learned how to play the game and move things incrementally towards their goals. Letting idealism obstruct pragmatism is only making things worse, even when your ideals are right. Play the game or lose.
Play the game or lose.
So what you’re saying is we have a terrible undemocratic system that was founded on the ideals of oppression and genocide, and that there’s no hope of fixing it. Got it.
Fuck the fascist United States.
Never said that, but smugly refusing to participate because it’s flawed is not an effective path toward fixing it. Conservatives have been gutting civil liberties by patiently toeing the line and playing by the rules of the game to develop their position over decades. Progressives have been splitting vote (or just straight up not voting) because they let their ideals prevent them from compromising on winning strategies.
Ideals and principles are great guiding stars to aim toward, and I desperately hope to live to see fully automated luxury gay space communism, but refusing to vote for the lesser evil isn’t getting us any closer. It’s just bringing us closer to an actual fascist United States.
Let bro cook 🗣️🗣️📢📢
Burning the trolley in this case will kill tens if not hundreds of thousands of people. I’m sure you’ll chill out once you turn 20.
I’m middle aged. My perspective is based on decades of being lied to by Democrats and being marginalized by both parties for being LGBT+ with a family of immigrants. Your opinion sounds like the childish one here, chief – mindlessly parroting tired capitalist propaganda.
We need to dismantle the system. It’s never been good, it only harms, and it cannot be fixed from within.
https://theanarchistlibrary.org/library/peter-gelderloos-anarchy-works
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Sad, and childish personal attack. Reported.
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If we all wrote in ourselves, we couldn’t possibly lose. There are so many of us and only two of them!
Yes Mr. Sherman, everything is genocide.
“Hey, do you think, just maybe, that if we stop attacking Israel randomly during peace time, that this wouldn’t happen?”
“Nah, that can’t be it.”
“Hey, do you think, just maybe, that if we stop attacking Nazi Germany randomly during peace time, that this wouldn’t happen?”
-You during the Jewish Warsaw Ghetto Uprising.
Neither were peacetimes of course, but I doubt someone this ignorant would care about that.
Remember when the Jews tried to to destroy Germany, started murdering their neighbors for legally buying land, then launched 70 years of brutal terror attacks against them? Oh wait, none of that happened. Your analogy is terrible. Pre-war Gaza was nothing like Warsaw ghettos, they were marketing it as a tourist destination, they had a fucking zoo.
