So, levelling in TES has had some… interesting… design choices over the years, from the weird counterintuitive attribute-maxing minigame of major and minor skills in Morrowind and Oblivion, to the much simpler but arguably less-interesting system in Skyrim. And then there’s the contentious issue of level scaling getting its oar in, too.
What would you personally like to see implemented? Where does modern game design stand on the issue? Is skill-based levelling still a sensible idea, or should we be looking in a different direction? (Generic XP? Something else?)
I think I would like something along the lines Skyrim’s system, where you just get better at skills by using them, but with more perks that are actually impactful and fewer perks that just boost damage without really changing how you play.
And enemy level scaling should go. I always hated seeing random bandits on the road with top-tier weapons and armor. It breaks immersion and makes my progression feel less meaningful.
I agree that level scaled enemies are immersion breaking. I also LIKE being able to return to the starter area and feel like a demigod sometimes for a sense of progress. It would be nice if some areas had plausible reasons to level scale. Perhaps an organization rivalling the PC which is well organized and funded, that is forced to equip it’s troops with ever increasing gear to counter your ballooning power. Something like that would allow for scaling in some places and not others.
I like your idea for level scaling in some places but not others! That would mean the main story and maybe some important side quests can always be appropriately challenging, but random no-name bandits won’t be walking around with enchanted daedric weapons. A perfectly immersive compromise.
I love it when games have you really weak in the beginning to the point of running away from certain enemies, and then later you return to that area after many level ups, and the AI is programmed to be afraid of you and run, or just not get aggroed on you. So precious few games that actually do that tho.
Skill-based leveling should stay. It’s basically a staple of the franchise.
Skyrim’s system but with a few of the removed options from the past would be nice. Also implement some starting choices once again, but don’t make that choice a burden later in the game like Morrowind. Starfield’s background-centric choices that bestow unique traits seems like it could be good to adapt.
Perks are nice but make them more meaningful. I hated the filler ones that were just 5 steps of “X does N% more damage” or “Y is N% more effective”. The Ordinator mod overhauling the perk system had good ideas.
Progression through practice works best in settings without any sort of enemy scaling. Is an area too dangerous? Go to a different area and level up. Come back to that dungeon later.
If the world has any sort of difficulty scaling it should use a progression through achievement system instead. I.E. exp for completing quests and defeating enemies.
I’m fine with either, and only want there to not be any PtP + scaling dissonance.
I don’t care much as long as level scaling is gone. It’s lazy and it signals that the world is built for and around you instead of you just being a part of that world.
When I’m walking around some well travelled road between cities I don’t want to meet wolves first and then some damage sponge minotaur lord slaughtering every guard patrol coming through two weeks later, just because I levelled up a couple of times in between.
I always liked the “level this skill by using it” thing, and Skyrim is the best way of doing it in any ES. No mucking about with attribute points based on skill gains like Morrowind or Oblivion, making it pretty straightforward how to get stronger in the ways you want.
I would just want more skills, and I don’t want to remove attributes, I just don’t want to have to keep notes on how to level up so I optimize them with the multipliers like previous games. Have those level up just like skills, when they’re used, but slower because more things can level them than a single skill levels.
And also tone down the level scaling. I’m fine with some areas of the game being practically impossible at level 1. And I definitely want weak-ass things I can absolutely pulverize in a low level area when I am max level. That shows progression so much better and in a much more fun way than simply seeing slightly different goons with prefixes and suffixes attached to their generic name.
Level by using is great, sadly it falls apart when crafting comes into the mix.
The traditional systems work great for combat skills, but i hope they come up with either something else or greatly accelerate it for non combat skills. Needing to create 7 million iron daggers doesn’t exactly invoke the vision of a master blacksmith to me.
It’s not necessarily what you’re doing that makes it stupid; it’s that you can craft 100 daggers so much faster than you can swing a sword 100 times or cast 100 spells and gain roughly the same “XP” for it. It just needs to be balanced. Ultima Online, while not perfect, did handle this a bit better than Skyrim with caps and how much gain you got for any particular action. Although, it was also multiplayer.
Transmute iron to gold and craft rings instead. Pretend your character is a rock hound or amateur geologist while you grind.
Fallout (3 and up) = TES with Guns
Starfield = TES in space
I’m very interested to see how they implement levels. I hate level scaling. Why should I level up if enemies get stronger with my character?
I would like it to work. That would be nice.
Fucking randomize everything. Make it so no two characters can be built the same. The way roguelikes do it
