Just putting this up to contrast with this post and because Eli Valley is a great political cartoonist.
Just a reminder…
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Tell me you live under a rock without telling me you live under a rock.
Don’t worry, that’s what the fascist simps want. But they’re totally Leftists, don’t worry; enabling fascism is just good praxis. /s
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Yes, you’re right. When given a binary choice it’s always worse to choose the side that will bring more fascism. I’m glad you recognized that at one point. Hopefully you can come back around to it.
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Out of the three choices available to me it’s brought the least fascism one can muster through the voting process. Not voting is a way to bring about marginally more fascism (I especially hope you are voting locally right?) There are 3 years and 364 other days to do political action. Please use those. I don’t see voting as anything but an awful way to choose the lesser of two evils and as a miniscule but necessary part of mine and your capacity for political action.
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I wholeheartedly encourage you to spend your time advocating for socialism and trying to revive the movement, hell, I’ve spent time canvasing for local socialist candidates. You know what that didn’t stop me from doing? Spending 20 minutes walking to my polling place once every 4 years to vote for the least fascist out of 2 shitty candidates.
I love when PEOPLE on lemmy act like THEY tried to warn everyone so THEY’RE not responsible. How many election cycles have you participated in? You haven’t done shit and will continue not doing shit, congratulations.
We know this isn’t an age-restricted reaction, so cool it with the “shaming young people” rhetoric.
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And they have just as hypocritically told you similar things. And neither of you have learned you’re both horrible.
Just a reminder: voting for the lesser of two evils has not ever resulted in the Democratic party stopping their march to the extreme right right alongside the GOP, to the point now that in order to vote for the Democratic nominee one must accept that their vote goes to supporting a genocide.
Just a reminder: voting for the lesser of two evils has not ever resulted in the Democratic party stopping their march to the extreme right right alongside the GOP, to the point now that in order to vote for the Democratic nominee one must accept that their vote goes to supporting a genocide.
“Their march to the extreme far right”
Tell me you don’t know history, or remember even 10 years ago, without telling me you don’t know history or remember 10 years ago.
What lessons from history were overlooked?
Please compare the Democratic Party in 2024 to the following periods of the Democratic Party:
2012
2004
1992
1980
1968
1960
1952
Then, subsequently, trace their ‘march to the extreme far right’.
Yes there was a massive Lurch right in the 90s. Since then the Democrats have waffled extremely hard. Flirting with moving back left slightly but often retracting back to their '90s positions. But there have been a few solid moves to the left in the last 20 years. Nowhere near enough of course. But some is always better than none.
You didn’t answer my question
Ten years, why not twenty? I wonder how Biden voted on the Iraq war and invasion of Afghanistan?
How long have we been voting for the technically less evil for now? And where are we at this exact moment? How many times were we all promised “Just vote fascist lite onnnnne more time and next election cycle will be better.”?
Sure, why not twenty. Please compare the state of the Democratic Party in 2004 to today, and tell me which is more right-wing.
Well, how right-wing is genocide compared to starting an unjustfied war?
Do you actually think that somehow you’re going to convince people that we are both on the precipice of fascism but also the Democrats have gotten better at resisting fascism?
Just a reminder: voting for Biden does not mean you support him.
Yes, it does. It means you’re willing to put your name to what he does in office.
Who told you that? I’m sure you didn’t read that anywhere.
No one had to tell me it, it is self-evident. He’s the representative you choose and he’s going to absolutely 100% take your vote for him as vindication that supporting genocide is politically viable, which means Dems will keep fielding zionists and taking AIPAC money.
That’s the consequences of your choice. You need to accept that, not try to pretend you still get to have sone kind of moral high ground.
Well, I don’t support either one of them but it’s very clear that Trump is the worse of the two options in the two party system. I did not choose him. I really think it’s moronic for randos on the internet to try to tell me what I support. It’s not a moral issue for me, it’s a logical one.
Voting for Biden is supporting him, yes. Sitting here arguing that people should vote for him is supporting him. You are a Biden supporter.
Tell me, logically, what would convince democrats to stop supporting genocide?
A person who doesn’t vote is more to blame than a person who votes for the less insane candidate. That’s logic 101.
Who said anything about not voting? People should vote in every election they can.
That’s why I only ever write in my own name. It’s the only way to be sure my vote perfectly aligns with my morals.
I’m not even American but didn’t the republicans do the exact same thing with “America under biden” using pictures of America under Trump.
Yes.
I’m not sure exactly what you mean, but both sides have their defenders and haters making pictures, toons, caricatures etc like this of their opponent, they always have. But it so happens that this particular artist doesn’t like Trump or Biden (same as me).
“i am trump and i aprove of this message”
You want to have genocide And fascism? Because this is how you get genocide and fascism.
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Go read a history book, please
ROFL!
huh weird it’s almost as if Biden is president and there is genocide and fascism happening right now, so weird
Its weird its almost as if your statements are unburdened by reality
oh so there isn’t a genocide? the United States doesn’t have one of the most proportionally incarcerated populations in the world? our police didn’t drive a tank to a college campus?
So here is a Trump quote about from a few days ago about Israels war on Hamas:
They’re losing the PR war. They’re losing it big. But they’ve got to finish what they started, and they’ve got to finish it fast, and we have to get on with life.
So he actually wants Israel to speed up it’s military operation and win.
As you can see, the US foreign policy position on Israel has absolutly nothing to do with with party or president. In fact, Trump is arguably more pro-Israel. He was also the one that moved the US embassy to Jerusalem, which was a big diplomatic “fuck you” for Palestinians.
the United States doesn’t have one of the most proportionally incarcerated populations in the world? our police didn’t drive a tank to a college campus?
Both of these have been true for decades and have nothing to do with Biden, just stupid whataboutism.
huh weird almost as if we keep voting in centrist Democrats
Yes. But I’m not sure why that is so weird. A progressive candiate would just lose so what’s the point?
Show the Democrats that they don’t earn the left vote automatically, they have to earn it.
See my history for details. It isnt fascism.
Trump is worse, of course, but you are getting mainly downvotes because this is basically true and there is no counterargument that doesn’t depend on the fact that American politics is broken. The comic isn’t totally right (e.g. project 2025 is not Biden’s plan) but it’s too close for comfort for some people.
Think about the response if Trump was funding a genocide and protesters were being arrested, silenced and vilified under his watch. Every single comment section would be flooded with people explaining how this is a key pillar of fascism.
But it’s all fine and people should grin and bear it because the bar is so fucking low you’re more likely to stub your toe on it than fail to clear it.
Who said all is fine and people should grin and bear it? Last I checked, there were several protests happening at universities across the country.
One thing that I can mention as my experience… as a 40 year old, I was the youngest person at the local Democratic Party meeting last time there was one…
I wasn’t there in support of what’s going on, I was there to attempt to influence the party. I’ve been trying to convince them that the way to gain more votes is actually shifting further left.
My takeaways from that experience…
1.) People in their 20’s should be showing up to the meetings and shifting the party left, but they’re not.
2.) The party is only going to listen to people that do show up… which seems like the average age was probably 65.Nah maybe more 40+ year olds should show up at the DSA meetings
They don’t seem to be incredibly active in my area unfortunately, otherwise, I’d be there 100%. Their closest chapter is in Orlando, and that’s about an hour south of me, they’re not in my district whatsoever. Once I move to CO, I’m hoping to sync up with DSA.
I signed up with the SRA a while back and that was $35 wasted. Their closest chapter was in Jacksonville. They never reached out to me beyond sending me a link to discord (which I don’t use). When I wrote an email asking for info, I was ignored.
Gotta get out of FL, but we all know that…
An hour isn’t too bad, my closest chapter is about an hour from me, too. They have zoom meetings and share actions on social media.
The sheer number of smug, privileged both-sidesers on Lemmy is absolutely staggering.
Organise a general strike to demand sweeping reforms.
Voting strategically is the bare minimum for when things are basically fine. They’re not. We have to do more.
A) It doesn’t look like him and it took me way too long to figure it out.
B) You’re a shitty artist. Maybe take up piano.
C) It doesn’t make any fuckin sense and won’t sway me in any way other than not listening to you.
The big text bubble that says “vote for me” didn’t clue you in to the caricature 's identity?? Like, not at all??
It’s a shitty drawing. No. It could be Trump or RFK. Maybe expect more out of art and less sucking the artists dick.
Sick homophobia, bro! I will be sure to value your opinion highly 👍
Sick burn! I mean blowjobs can be hetro too!
You sure showed them! They thought you were being homophobic, when in fact, you were being sexist! Owned!
Oh yea! Because it was supposed to be taken literally. You sure outsmarted me.
Wtf is this ugly shit
Republican influencers know if they told the truth, they’d lose, so they lie. Cartoon depictions are no exception.
Eli valley, he draws em like they are.
Sure, you don’t have to do it if you don’t mind fascism and not getting to vote ever again.
As for everyone who ISN’T a fascism enabler, though? Bit of a moral imperative.
Pretty fucking depressing that the anti fascism vote is also the keep supporting genocide vote. It’s a trolley problem but one track only has foreigners tied to it so we’re supposed to cheer for that option I guess
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One track has Palestinians tied to it, the other track has more Palestinians tied to it, Ukrainians and probably others tied to it, AND American minorities by the bushel.
If you’re looking for a point in history when there wasn’t someone getting hit by the trolley, you’ll be looking a while. We have to find the choice that is most achievable and least damaging.
One track has Palestinians tied to it, the other track has more Palestinians tied to it, Ukrainians and probably others tied to it, AND American minorities by the bushel.
Yeah wooooo go Biden so proud 🤣 vote democrat, we will probably be responsible for less death and suffering. New slogan right there. “SLIGHTLY! LESS! DEATH!”
It’s a complicated situation though golly who knows how to fix this problem
We have to find the choice that is most achievable and least damaging.
The smart people know that. Only problem is that not all of the people are smart and they all have the same voting power
vote democrat, we will probably be responsible for less death and suffering. New slogan right there. “SLIGHTLY! LESS! DEATH!”
That’s the slogan for every positive action throughout human history. We don’t have the luxury of choices which hurt no one on the societal scale.
I’m not saying it’s a bad decision given the situation. I’m saying the situation is dog shit and perhaps will come back to bite us in the ass when “slightly less death!” isn’t the biggest motivation to get out and vote.
I would be more sympathetic to your point if Biden couldn’t stop supporting this immediately with relative ease. Most voters are against what Israel is doing and especially democrats. It’s not like it would hurt his election chances. It’s not like the protests this has inspired are a good look anyway.
Most voters are against what Israel is doing and especially democrats. It’s not like it would hurt his election chances.
That’s literally not true though.
https://news.gallup.com/poll/548084/americans-divided-involvement-middle-east.aspx
Americans Divided Over U.S. Support for Israel and the Palestinians Do you think the United States supports [Israel/the Palestinians] too much, about the right amount or too little? % Too much% Right amount% Too little% No opinion U.S. support for Israel U.S. adults 36 38 24 Republicans 26 37 37 Independents 40 36 22 Democrats 40 43 15
Most Americans, including most Democrats, think that the current level of support for Israel is either correct or too little.
More recent poll:
https://news.gallup.com/poll/642695/majority-disapprove-israeli-action-gaza.aspx
Overall 55% disapprove of Israel’s actions and only 36% approve, plus
Democrats, who were already largely opposed in November, are even more so now, with 18% approving and 75% disapproving.
And
Biden’s approval rating for his handling of the situation in the Middle East, at 27%, is his lowest among five issues tested in the survey.
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If you’re looking for a point in history when there wasn’t someone getting hit by the trolley, you’ll be looking a while.
“It’s the way we’ve always done it” isn’t a justification for continuing.
Feel free to get back to me when you develop your magic “Everyone wins and no one is hurt” formula for actions on a societal scale.
It doesn’t have to be “everyone wins and no one gets hurt” in order to be better than supporting genocide.
You’re seriously casting “stop supporting genocide” as a pipe dream for people with unrealistic expectations.
You’re seriously casting “stop supporting genocide” as a pipe dream for people with unrealistic expectations.
Congratulations. You’ve ‘stopped supporting genocide’ by witholding your vote for mean ol’ Biden. That’ll show him!
The trolley now goes down the Trump rail, and crushes even more Palestinians, in addition to Ukrainians, American minorities, and god knows who else.
Yeah, gonna go ahead and say that “CORNEL WEST COMES OUT OF THE DRESSING ROOM WITH A STEEL CHAIR!” or whatever the red herring candidate du jour is is a fucking pipe dream.
Congratulations. You’ve ‘stopped supporting genocide’ by witholding your vote for mean ol’ Biden. That’ll show him!
I’m still voting for Biden, just like I was last time you made this baseless accusation.
If you’re looking for a point in history when there wasn’t someone getting hit by the trolley, you’ll be looking a while
Sounds like I should do what’s best to send a message to the Democrats in an effort to steer them away from being murderous then, since people are going to die either way and there is no winning with this single election. Thanks!
Sounds like I should do what’s best to send a message to the Democrats then, since people are going to die either way and there is no winning with this single vote. Thanks!
“People are going to die either way, so I might as well enable the worse choice!” - Voter in Weimar Germany
Nice work, good job on murdering as many minorities as you can because… people are going to die anyway, so it may as well be as many as possible?
And fascist simps like you wonder why you’re disdained by so many.
I’m just following your logic and finding the action that has the best long-term effect.
People are going to die anyway, right? That’s just history, right?
Killing as many minorities as possible and ushering in fascism is the best long-term effect in your mind?
Yeah, that tracks. You keep simping for fascism, bud.
No, turning away the Democrats from having killing as a policy is.
As you say, people are going going to die anyway “that’s just reality” and I have to vote for a fascist if I vote for anyone. May as well cast an Uncommitted and punish the party that should be anti-genocide but isn’t currently.
(I am one of the minorities that will be targeted by a GOP admin, btw)
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We already have fascism already, and no real elections.
Fucking lmao.
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::checks user name::
Oh, ok… that explains it.
I don’t really see you as being in a position to take a high ground on the basis of usernames.
When dumb assholes continue to say dumb shit, and their username happens to imply that their brain is somewhere other than in their cranium; it simply checks out. There’s no high ground. My username could be “shit-shingles” and it wouldn’t be implicit that my brain is elsewhere… “brain_in_a_box” on the other hand…
“Standards for thee and none for me” is all I’m taking from this.
Have a great day.
Isn’t this like the trolley problem?
Nah in the trolley problem you have agency
Yeah. 2 track paths and a switch to flip or opt out of.
Pretty similar actually.
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Man that Boingo kid from JoJos Bizzare Adventure got into some weird circles since Stardust Crusaders
Man, this last few dozen presidential voting cycles have been shittier and shittier every 4 years.
It’s no wonder people aren’t interested in voting, of course if they were some of these problems would sort themselves out… regardless, it’s hard to encourage people to vote when you’re voting against a shit sandwich and a literal piece of shit.
I will never vote for Joe Biden again. That decision was made many years ago and has nothing to do with his vile actions over the past few years.
If you feel like maybe you don’t wanna vote for Biden either, because he’s a genocidare or because he gave up on getting roe back or because he literally just came out and said the campus protests are wrong and he won’t change his mind, join me and cast a ballot for PSL at the presidential level instead.
Send a clear message that when the democrats run genocide Joe they won’t get your vote.
And more importantly, go get chummy with your neighbors. Make sure you have a few weeks worth of food in the pantry, get your finances straightened out, stay hydrated and keep some water in rotation.
No one knows what we’re facing in the future, but you can be a stabilizing force for yourself and those around you no matter what it is.
Project 2025 thanks you for your service.
If you cared about that you’d be pressuring the democrats to run someone else.
If you believed it was a real threat you wouldn’t be trying to shame and browbeat people into casting a ballot for the democrats vile running dog and preparing to endure a time of upheaval instead.
If you cared about that you’d be pressuring the democrats to run someone else.
Who says I’m not?
If you believed it was a real threat you wouldn’t be trying to shame and browbeat people into casting a ballot for the democrats vile running dog and preparing to endure a time of upheaval instead.
And if you were a decent person you’d hold your nose and vote against the obvious worse choice.
But you both-sidesers just want to pat yourselves on the back.
I already said I won’t vote for Joe Biden. Nothing you say will ever convince me and the only effect your replies can have is on third party readers of them.
It doesn’t make me a bad person that there’s a bridge too far for lending my paltry, unimportant political support. Biden crossed that bridge before I even voted for him the first and only time in 2008.
I will be voting against trump though, since my PSL ballot isn’t gonna be counted for him.
If you think me and people like me (a group that is growing by the minute as Biden continues to carry water for Zionist fascism) are necessary for a democrat victory and you see that as of the highest importance, join us and add to the pressure the democrats are under to pick a different candidate.
And again, from his privileged high horse, does he push the agenda of not voting for Biden and enabling a Trump victory.
Fuck women’s rights, this is about moral superiority, dear reader!
Running Biden enables a trump victory.
I’m not the one doing that, the democrats are.
Having a standard that is above genocide isnt an indicator of moral superiority.
Running Biden enables a trump victory.
Votes enable or disable a victory. Everything else is abstraction.
Fuck women’s rights
Roe v Wade got obliterated in 2022, btw. Instead of codifying it when he entered office, he stood by and let it get scrapped. This does not sound like someone who respects women’s bodily autonomy.
Gee I wonder who stacked the courts with the specific goal of doing just that…
Nah, let’s blame the guy who didn’t bypass the supposed checks and balances that we would scream at the right for abusing instead.
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At this point, I honestly doubt Biden will do anything to stop this from happening anyways. I have 0 confidence he will do what needs to be done to protect trans people.
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