- cross-posted to:
- criminaljustice
- cross-posted to:
- criminaljustice
Defense attorneys said the use of ketamine, fentanyl and potassium chloride could cause ‘excruciating suffering’
Utah officials said on Saturday that they are scrapping plans to use an untested lethal drug combination in next month’s planned execution of a man in a 1998 murder case. They will instead seek out a drug that’s been used previously in executions in numerous states.
Defense attorneys for Taberon Dave Honie, 49, had sued in state court to stop the use of the drug combination, saying it could cause the defendant “excruciating suffering”.
The execution scheduled for 8 August would be Utah’s first since the 2010 execution of Ronnie Lee Gardner, by firing squad.
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So to preface, I am absolutely and without reservation against the death penalty, so any state-sanctioned murder is unacceptable to me.
That being said, if they’re going for painless, why not just a captive bolt stunner the their brain stem? Like, having them lie back in a massage table with a container for the blood (heaven forbid the audience should experience the discomfort of gore with their death spectacle), and just pop it when it’s time. Guaranteed to shut them off, mess is handled, suitable for a casket, and no suffering. They wouldn’t even have a chance to feel it.
And if the thought of putting a human down like cattle is disturbing to you, good. It should be, just like any other way we would keep somebody locked up waiting to be killed.
Honestly, the guillotine was the peak. Every new method since then is simply more for the viewers comfort than the actual person dyingz
*as long as the blade is kept sharp
are there a significant number of reported “botched executions” with guillotine? Even if the weight is blunt, it is so heavy and comes down at such a force that it would likely break the spine and destroy the brain steam and cause a near instant death.
Only problem with that is open caskets and decapitation like that isn’t instant. The brain is still alive for a bit.
Yep. About 2-3 seconds is the estimate. Unless you are obliterated in a fireball, there’s no way for death to be truly instant.
Or just plain pure nitrogen. Not the way they incompetently did it a while back where the prisoner suffocated due to his own exhaled CO2, but pure nitrogen while venting his exhalations.
I’m also against the death penalty entirely, but I’ve always wondered why they need to be conscious. Why can’t they put them under general anesthesia, then push the chemical while they’re unconscious?
That is, ideally, what they want to do. However, to do it properly you would need a doctor, and doctors won’t help because of the whole “do no harm” thing. Kind of against their whole thing.
Have you been to Utah? There’s probably a few “good Mormon” doctors who would do it, citing deep scripture regarding blood atonement and that kind of BS.
Yeah and there’s probably a few actually good doctors on the medical board who would yank their licenses in a fucking heartbeat for participating.
Definitely. There’s a big enough group of decent enough people in Utah that help keep the state from turning into Florida or Texas, for now.
Pretty sure somewhere in their holy book says “Do not kill”, so probably Mormon has nothing to do with it. An atheist would have less reservations, probably.
Hahaha. The third chapter into the book, the big “good” guy - Nephi - kills a dude because the voice in his head - the “Holy Spirit” - tells him they need a book the guy has.
Ever hear of the Mountain Meadows massacre? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mountain_Meadows_Massacre?wprov=sfla1
Or how about something more recent? Jeffrey R Holland - an Apostle of Jesus Christ - essentially telling Mormons to get their muskets ready to defend themselves against gay & trans people?
https://www.sltrib.com/religion/2021/08/23/we-must-have-will-stand/
Even better - how that talk is required reading/listening at BYU?
Mor[m]onism has always been violent and has embraced authoritarianism from the very beginning. Their proselytizing is just another form of colonialism and sending 18-19 year olds on missions (and having them pay for it) is just world-class brainwashing.
You know you can say this about pretty much any religion, right? Yet most people don’t go “Hey, God nuked Sodom, that means nuking is okay.”
Because applying anesthesia is nor easy, requires years of education and a medical degree, and not anesthesiologist is going ti participate on it.
Only if you are worried about keeping them alive
Fucking up the anesthesia could also lead to full body seizures and projectile vomiting.
As a welder who has been trained to be very afraid of peacefully going to sleep in a forever nap, I have never understood why inert gas asphyxiation isn’t widely used. It’s literally easier than falling asleep and you can use the same gas over and over again.
Alabama tried that and managed to screw it up. You have to remove the carbon dioxide in the exhales to prevent the feeling of suffocation, and they didn’t provide enough nitrogen flow to do that. Took like twenty minutes of clearly desperate gasping and convulsions for the guy to pass.
I really agree. State sanctioned murder is unacceptable to me as well, but if they insist then let’s be humane about it.
The problem is the very pro-death penalty camp wants the dying process - not the being dead part after - to be the punishment. The pro-humane camp is generally anti-death-penalty enough they don’t get a seat at the method-decision table.
“Whatever. As long as we get to kill a man who committed a crime more than 25 years later. Because that’s what we call Utah justice.”
Agreed, he should have been killed a lot sooner.
Or maybe the state shouldn’t have the power of life and death over it’s citizens since you can’t unkill an innocent person.
Ye. I do think the death penalty has a place, but it’s for the most extreme cases where it is 100% obvious that not only did they do it, but them being alive is a threat
It happens, but is REALLY rare
Why would they be more of a threat alive in a supermax prison than dead?
We seem to think a supermax is fine for the terrorists we don’t execute.
Those who inspire just by being alive, leading to concentrated attacks to try to free them, or who can otherwise cause influence due to still being alive (e.g. Dahmer for the latter)
Exceptionally rare and would be an exception, not the rule
What exception would be worse than what any of these people are in prison for?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_current_inmates_at_ADX_Florence
Terry Nichols is in there. He helped kill 168 people in the Oklahoma City Bombing.
Zacarias Moussaoui is in there. He helped facilitate 9/11. He’s responsible for the deaths of thousands.
El Chapo is in there. We can’t even count the number of deaths he’s responsible for and we’ll never know.
None of them are on death row.
So tell me- what is this exceptionally rare situation that would warrant the death penalty?
Honestly, I’d say those should be - absolutely horrific amounts of life lost, and inspire others to try it. It’s probably a topic we’d not convince each other on
This
isshould be already the measuring stick for incaraceration.
Utah.
The Oklahoma of Arizona’s Texas.
Stealing this.
As an Oklahoman, this feels accurate.
Stop calling it “execution”. Call it what it is: Murder
Whether you agree with capital punishment or not, “execution” is the more accurate definition. “Putting to death especially as a legal penalty”.
Execution is a penalty for murder.
Guillotine. Effective, repeatable, instantaneous.
But I think it overdose of marijuana should do the trick. Nobody would ever claim that was cruel.
Overdosing on THC is basically one long panic attack, which occurs waaaaaayyxy before you even come close to dieing. I think, some people might consider this cruel.
That’s kind of like the people who try to commit suicide with Tylenol. They think it’ll be painless, but they don’t realize that over the course of the next few weeks their organs will turn to jelly and they’ll be in incredibly pain.
It’s almost physically impossible to overdose on THC.
*lethally overdose on THC
Almost.
Appropriate username
Have you ever overdosed on weed? It’s fucking horrible
Pedantic, but:
The LD50 for THC is so hilariously high that you will physically lose the ability to move your body and consume more THC long, long before you reach a point of potential toxicity. From a technical standpoint there is no recorded event of a THC “overdose” ever occurring, like literally ever in human history, and boy have we been trying over the years. It’s easier to die from drinking too much water than consuming too much THC.
Now clearly what you’re referring to is just having had too much, “greening out” as the kids say, where you can gain a lot of anxiety and lose a lot of bodily control. And yes, that sucks, a lot. Panic attack city right there. But that’s not an overdose in the proper, dangerous sense of the term.
I only even bring this up because with cannabis being such a hot button political issue lately and being on the brink of federal legalization, accurate information about it is more important now than ever. And more often than not I usually see comments like this just replied to with “lol u can’t overdose on weed idiot” with no further context and that’s not helpful to anyone.
You can definitely take too much and have a bad time, but if you manage to find a way to legitimately overdose on THC, Willie Nelson would like to know your location.
but if you manage to find a way to legitimately overdose on THC, Willie Nelson would like to know your location.
gather round, everyone! let me introduce you to the winner of today’s internet.
You can definitely take too much and have a bad time
You’ve just alluded to a toxic reaction due to overdose. The term overdose does not exclusively refer to the median fatal dose, nor does it hinge on the risk of lethality.
Okay, point taken, but - Oxford’s definition of overdose reads “an excessive and dangerous dose of a drug”, emphasis mine, though that may differ from a clinical definition. My point was that it’s basically impossible to consume enough THC to require medical attention about it, even if you’re trying.
Though I’m realizing now that this conversation is taking place in the context of executing a man with it, so the point may be moot anyway.
If you don’t think panic attacks are dangerous, you’ve never had one.
This is in the context of execution.
It’s in the context of someone moving the conversation from “a cannibus overdose is impractical as a means of execution” to “there is no such thing as a cannibus overdose”.
An overdose doesn’t mean you die
Who gets the fun job of cleaning up all the blood?
An independent contractor who charges $300/h. The actual work is done by a sub-sub-contractor’s minimum wage employee who’s expected to bring their own cleaning supplies.
The same people who clean flats where someone died alone and was only discovered weeks to months later because of the smell.
Servpro, Crime Scene Cleanup, or Aftermath Services.
Hypoxia seems like a good way to go…
Sorry to quote “the forum we left behind”
Give me a firing squad every time.
Most of these “ethical” (i.e. clean) methods would be considered torture if they were non-lethal.
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not fine to deal fentanyl if you are an average citizen but more than okay if you are the justice system and intentionally OD someone
this is what happens when a cop lover with a prosecutor for a vice gets voted in
Yes, Biden and Harris are responsible for Utah’s state execution policies.
What kind of dumbass hot take is that?
“a prosecutor for a vice”?
They mean Kamala Harris. They spend their days on Lemmy making sure Trump will win the election by doing everything they can to get people to not vote for Biden, or Harris if she takes over for him.
Ohhh. I probably should have figured that out, but I’m not great with people using weird phrasings.
I hope you know that fentanyl is an FDA approved prescription drug
