I’m sure we all know about the low audience scores given to The Acolyte. Rotten Tomatoes was sitting down at 14% since around the third episode, and was that low up until at least the last episode. Now that it’s nearly a week out from the season finale, I figured I’d take another look.
The Rotten Tomatoes score has gone up to 17% and other review platforms have gone up a bit also.
So I decided to read through a few of the recent ones. Here are two examples:
The showrunners accuse fans of “review bombing” but are apparently just fine with artificial review boosting. I saw a bunch of these double reviews and nearly every single one talked about things like diversity, a “fresh take”, production values, etc, all in that typical bland corporate-speech type of language.
Whereas the negative reviews are detailed and specific without ever getting into racism, bigotry, sexism, or other things fans are often accused of. If you read through the negative reviews they are often well thought out criticisms of the story itself and the quality of acting.
I just wanted to bring this fake review boosting to the community’s attention. If you enjoyed the show, that’s awesome. But it’s dishonest to dilute honest and fair criticisms of a show.
While shady behavior to manipulate reviews is not okay, I’m hesitant to engage with the discussion. The reason being that jumping down into this topic results in unproductive slapfights where everyone calls everyone else shills/trolls/whatever. Bringing that discussion to this community changes the tone from talking about Star Wars, to talking about people who are talking about people who are talking about Star Wars.
There should be a space on the Internet to enjoy Star Wars, and to discuss and critique Star Wars content itself without being sidetracked by talking about how other people have wrong opinions.
E-celebs whip up mobs of idiots. Corporations whip up mobs of idiots. I just don’t know if that’s something we really need to put a magnifying glass on here. This topic is something I’ve been thinking about for a while now.
I agree that engaging is for the most part non-productive. It’s like trying to explain gravity to a flat earther. I just want people to be aware of the manipulation.
I’d prefer people ignore the noise. Star Wars fandom is always on the precipice of exploding into another fan on fan knifefight with the smallest provocation. I had hoped to have a space where people talk about what they enjoy, rather than fight over review scores and Twitter nonsense. But I am hesitant as well to strike down the discussion that people want to engage in.
There should be a space on the Internet to enjoy Star Wars, and to discuss and critique Star Wars content itself without being sidetracked by talking about how other people have wrong opinions.
Absolutely agree.
My favourite thing about lemmy, compared to the other place, is how with much smaller communities the discussions are much less vitriolic and antagonistic.
I’ve missed being able to have discussions about star wars based on media and literary analysis, instead of “the main character is a woman and thus BAD”.
I mean, I had the whole “She’s got a twin sister whose doing it” thing pegged from the moment we saw the ‘good’ sister working as a mechanic in illegal jobs or whatever.
I had shroom-guy pegged for being the Sith Master from the moment he warned her that “he would know”… or whatever that conversation was in the apothecary.
I joked about it because, that’d be too obvious, right? Nope.
The only thing going for the show is that it has some decent wushu glowbat combat. That’s about it.
I watched it. I enjoyed it in the same way that I enjoyed a lot of shitty scifi or fantasy- it was ‘okay’, it filled the silence; but it wasn’t something I was going to make a night out of.
Yeah, agreed, it’s like 6.5/10. Nothing amazing, but not actively bad.
I’m guessing that the score started low because the people that were going to be unhappy no matter what were the first ones to run to the website to leave bad reviews. I’m guessing most people that did enjoy it just moved on with their lives & wont bother to leave a review anywhere.
So like everything else in life?
Yup, just pointing out that the low score doesn’t mean much. Those people leave behind criticism of everything, of course The Acolyte wasn’t excluded from their wrath. Edit: in other words, there’s no boosting. Those are just reviews from people that liked it coming in.
Those people leave behind criticism of everything, of course The Acolyte wasn’t excluded from their wrath.
I’ve never reviewed a single bit of Star Wars media in my life. The Acolyte was so bad that I felt like sharing my opinion. That’s what many other people have done also.
If you actually look through the reviews the majority of the positive reviews are bland copy/paste generic wording. A suspicious number of them start with “As a long time Star Wars fan” and then go on about the diversity of the cast.
Whereas the critical reviews are all unique with valid criticisms about the story or its execution.
And yet even with the artificial boosting the score is still incredibly low. So low that the other shows with the same rating are unrecognizable trash.
How is it that the people who are always contrary managed to tank this show’s rating far more than any other show out there?
The answer is that they didn’t. A sizable amount of people who genuinely did not like the show have shared their opinions. That’s it.
Those are valid reasons to like a show, though we might not all share that opinion. The critical reviews are also valid, not saying they aren’t.
Personally, I never expect good writing or excellent film quality when it comes to Star Wars since it’s never been well written or anything more than a mid-level movie with an amazingly endearing campy atmosphere, and an excellent & interesting world the story takes place in. Aside from Rogue One & Andor, those are uncharacteristically good for Star Wars properties.
Those are valid reasons to like a show
No, those are valid things to like about a show. But they do not in any way make something good in-of-itself.
You can feel that way dude, it’s ok
So did you like the Acolyte? What did you enjoy about it?
Disney just needs to pump more money into Andor, but something tells me it’s Antifascist themes caused some commotion behind closed doors, so they’re trying to capture the same revenue with more tame attempts like Acolyte. It’s not working.
Didn’t the lead of Andor not want to be on the show for too long? That’s why it’s two long seasons.
Oh yeah. I forgot about that…well more antifascist Star Wars please…or more specifically more scathing criticism of American fascism and American imperialism in Star Wars please.
Like the OT.
At some point it is all just going to have diminishing returns and it always was, as soon as Disney acquired it. They’d like to make it a franchise in the pattern of Marvel, cranking out new TV and movies every few months for reliable cashflow. There is no way to pursue this model and have consistently good output.
ffs this, please.
I liked The Acolyte. It was not at the level of Andor or The Mandalorian, though it was dramatically better than The Book of Boba Fett. It was a solid enjoyable show and I particularly enjoyed how it expanded the canon universe by giving some love and attention to non-Jedi Force traditions (the Sith and the witches). Anecdotally that’s broadly what I hear from the Star Wars fans I know in real life too.
The attention people give to online ‘fan’ review scores always baffles me. Everyone knows these are meaningless. It’s a sad reality that most high-profile shows in our genre with prominent women, non-white and/or LGBT+ leads get review-bombed to death - we all know this. And I expect all shows will get review-boosted, because why on earth wouldn’t you do this if you were in charge of the marketing operation when it’s practically free marketing? So the ‘fan’ scores on Rotten Tomatoes etc are just the balance of a meaningless positive number against a meaningless negative number.
It’s ok to be outraged by “sad reality”, OP doesn’t have to just accept it.
It’s a sad reality that most high-profile shows in our genre with prominent women, non-white and/or LGBT+ leads get review-bombed to death - we all know this.
Edit: ok, yes. I missed the part that said “genre”
I see you bought into the propaganda.
I’m sorry, were you under the impression that RuPaul’s Drag Race belongs to the sci-fi and fantasy genre…?
The reason I specified our genre is that sci-fi and fantasy audiences skew whiter and maler than the general public, and a vocal minority of online sci-fi and fantasy fans (who are deeply unrepresentative of the wider fanbases) make it their business to be vocally abusive about any online content that they consider not to be white and male enough for their liking.
I bet the negative reaction is a little more nuanced than “girls bad. Non-white people weird”, and I worry you’re generalizing.
were you under the impression that RuPaul’s Drag Race belongs to the sci-fi and fantasy genre…?
Ok, fair. I missed that part of your comment. I guess I really shouldn’t reply first thing in the morning before caffeine.
But I still think it isn’t a valid point. There will always be a minority that doesn’t like something. That’s a facet that exists in every aspect of reality. You could sneeze and someone somewhere will have something negative to say about it.
But the point about the “white and male” audience is irrelevant in my opinion. No one batted an eye when Rogue One came out because the story was solid and the characters well written. I never heard from anyone about the lead being a woman from a negative or positive angle. It just didn’t matter.
Same thing when TFA came out. No one cared that the lead was Daisy Ridley. Some people complained about her “wooden acting” and that the story was just a repeat from the OT, but that’s about it (and I disagree with both points). It was once TLJ came out that people started really complaining (and rightfully) about the story and how bad it was that Disney switched on the backlash machine and started accusing everyone of everything.
And that’s the thing about Disney, they will outright accuse their fans of hating diversity all the while shrinking John Boyega in the Chinese posters to be almost invisible, and putting the mask on Chadwick Boseman’s face in the Black Panther posters also for the Chinese market.
It’s at the point where as soon as Disney accuses fans of something you should immediately look to see what they’re deflecting from. Because Disney is nothing but hypocritical at this point.
Acolyte was way better than Book of Boba Fett and better than Ahsoka. It’s a 6/10 show or something like that. Pretty unremarkable. I feel like it was aimed at a younger demographic. Loved seeing lots of expanded universe stuff being brought into canon, like the witches and non-Jedi/non-Sith Force traditions. I liked the 60s/70s aesthetics. Always nice to see the other side of the Jedi, too. Willing to bet at least 50% of the reviewers online never watched it. Basing your opinions from online review scores is unfortunately now a total waste of time.
Acolyte was way better than Book of Boba Fett and better than Ahsoka. It’s a 6/10 show or something like that.
Boba Fett was pretty bad, and Ahsoka was decent. It definitely had major problems, but the aspects of Ahsoka herself were pretty spot on and for her character.
The Acolyte is hands down one of the worst shows I’ve seen. I feel bad for Manny Jacinto because he actually killed it. And Daphny Keen was awesome too. Her saber battle was well done.
But the story was just awful.
Willing to bet at least 50% of the reviewers online never watched it.
I read through a LOT of the reviews. I hadn’t seen a single one that was overly generic, and all of them had a genuine and valid point.
Only a few of the positive ones seemed genuine, the rest sounded like they went through a corporate marketing team.
I guess you and I have a different interpretation of the story, because I felt it was pretty fun. A bit predictable, but a refreshing change from the usual star wars fare. 1/10 reviews that say “the story makes no sense” are, imo, displaying either bad faith or a relatively low media literacy.
It’s not for everyone, and that’s fine. But it’s a culture war thing now, and not being judged on its own merits by most people. You are not immune to propaganda.
1/10 reviews that say “the story makes no sense” are, imo, displaying either bad faith or a relatively low media literacy.
It doesn’t make sense because the motivations are all over the place. Mae and Osha switch sides at the drop of a hat (all while Amandala’s expression never changes, Amandala’s acting was abysmal). The whole “we must take the girls to protect them” plotline was just empty.
The depiction of the Jedi was incredibly forced also (no pun intended).
But it’s a culture war thing now
And that’s no one’s fault but Disney’s. No one cared about the gender or sexual preferences of the actors. However, the show runners decided to make that a large part of their marketing and talking points.
Avery Brooks said it best. Just replace what he says with “being queer” or “lesbian” (for the Acolyte).
There was this inclusion speech seminar everyone at my company had to go through, and mind you this was over a decade ago at this point. I originally thought it was incredibly stupid and there’s nothing I could learn from it as I always treat everyone with respect.
But the one thing that has always stuck with my was the way speech can impact your attitude or your perceived attitude. Instead of saying “that’s a blind person” you should say “that person has blindness”. It’s a subtle point but when you study other languages you learn that word order can change the emphasis to a degree that doesn’t exist in English.
What I’m saying with all of this is that good characters aren’t written by starting with a distinctive aspect, like Avery Brooks said. No one cared that Rogue One had a female lead, but Disney accused everyone of not liking the ST and Rey because she’s a female lead.
Mae and Osha switch sides at the drop of a hat
Not sure I’d call “learning that everything I have ever been told by the Jedi is a lie and that they’re responsible for all of my pain and grief which they ultimately used as a reason to reject me from the Jedi Order, the one thing I wanted more than anything, and blamed it all on my sister” is the drop of a hat, but go off I guess.
No idea what you’re talking about r.e. queer/lesbian. There wasn’t any girl-on-girl action in the version I watched, they must have cut that out for the version screened in the UK.
Better than Ahsoka? Some fight and the season finale are better but overall? Ahsoka for me has more engaging episodes and likeable characters and better acting overall. Ahsoka is 6.5/10, Acolyte 5/10 for me.
Ahsoka would have been completely forgettable if it didn’t use characters we already cared about, imo. Personally I felt it wasn’t very good, but of course you’re entitled to your own opinion
The Acolyte is competitive against Kenobi for worst series to date.
Kenobi wasn’t good, but it was nowhere near as bad
Kenobi ruined a lot of IV, and even some of III. Acolyte ruined Anakin in general, and also ruined the jedi order in general. Both have tons of cringe and nonsensical moments, both feature times where a single swing could end things but can’t because plot.
Both have tons of cringe and nonsensical moments
Absolutely
both feature times where a single swing could end things but can’t because plot.
Yup, and that’s bad writing.
Kenobi ruined a lot of IV, and even some of III
See, I disagree with this part. I think the issue is that some of the ideas weren’t introduced or handled properly. But I think the overall concept was there. But Disney is incredibly inconsistent with some things. Like Obi-wan, who was not all that strong in the force, could live a field of giant boulders and hurl them at Vader. But Sol couldn’t hold two small girls up? Nevermind the fact that he was holding the bridges instead of just the girls.
But the storyline with Reva was just trash. A center mass lightsaber stab from Vader isn’t fatal (twice) but a small knife from Mae is fatal.
Every accusation is an admission…
Disney really is just disgracing themselves further with this 😔
I noticed the jump from 14% too, lol. Good catch.
I tried so hard to like The Acolyte, even after all the review hate centered around misogyny and race, but the show was so bad, I got swallowed up by the Dark Side. I think the thing that pushed me over the edge was the episode with the witch force cult writhing and chanting, it was literally the definition of cringe, it stayed with me so long I legitimately couldn’t enjoy a singe scene after that, but forced myself to watch to the end of the season.
In terms of Star Wars shows, the quality of Andor stands alone.
Edit: Also, the thing that really bugged me all the way through was the fact I thought it was canon that the Sith were an established ancient anti Jedi Dark Side Force order, but they had “died out a millennia ago”. Why did all the Jedi in The Acolyte act like they’ve never heard of Sith before.
Wonderful, you have bribed critics reviews, and botted audience score
I always like to appreciate the strong aspects of every piece of media. In my view acolyte has not much of them but… no really I have a hard time to say what was good. But who am I to say what others can enjoy or not?
I enjoyed attack of the clones and tpm as a kid and those are some of the most dubious pieces of sw media. I’d probably enjoy all of them if I was younger but my taste changed to now where I only fully enjoy original trilogy basically 4k77 to 83. I would gladly get rid of ewoks for Wookiees though
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it’s dishonest to dilute honest and fair criticisms of a show.
Both the ones getting paid for review boosting and also the ones who are, for some particular reason, blindly following the new Star Wars bad except Andor trend.
At least the first group is explicitly getting paid. I can’t make any case for the second group - they could try growing a piece of criticism on their own, but it’s likely that they are youngsters trying to fit in. They don’t get paid either, so why do they even waste their time?
I’ve mentioned this in another comment, but out of curiosity I’ve read through a whole lot of the comments and reviews. The vast majority of positive reviews are bland “as a long time star wars fan the diversity of this show is great” types of language. Whereas the majority of the negative reviews were unique and valid criticisms with no racism, sexism, bigotry, or anything like that and were all worded uniquely.
Psh. There are groups of chronically online losers operating out of different discord servers working to control the narrative on the Acolyte. There are groups that do this for video games and there are groups that do this for politics, like the conservatives that control r/Canada on Reddit.
If you are outraged by either side of the manipulation then you have been sucked into the culture war nonsense yourself. You should take a step back and question why this is important to you.
