From the article:
“Play is an integral part of human evolution and learning,” she says, mentioning that this is a topic she covers in her book. “Gaming, being the most refined form of play in our time, has much to offer. Instead of focusing on what gaming is not, it’s more effective to showcase its true essence. The industry’s effort to create a more diverse range of games, beyond merely violent and intense ones, will help showcase the broad spectrum of gaming as an expression of creativity.”
I feel the problem is not the industry but the fanbase. As of the last few years, it’s become pretty common to see videogames become target of hatred for “going woke”: H:FW’s Aloy’s “peach fuzz”, TLOU2’s Abby being too masculine, women not living to the average beauty standard, LGBT characters “shoved down people’s throats”, character editors decoupling gender and sex or using gender-neutral language, narrative being cringe because it targets millennials (as if older games didn’t target young audiences, too)… The industry is going forward, but I don’t think the fanbase is ready yet.
Sometimes I think the fanbase is regressing, even. I’ve seen people lamenting increased “politics” in their videogame, yet saying that MGS or FFVII or Bioshock are their favourite games. Gamers don’t even pay attention to what they consume, they merely parrot whatever their favourite influencer says. “Woke” is a meaningless term that gets thrown around whenever they don’t like something.
Fan base isn’t regressing - there’s just an increasingly polarized contingent that won’t stop wailing about every snub.
Overall the gaming fan base is growing because of this embracing of diversity.
Yeah it’s just a loud group of dipshits that want games to be a safe space for their regressive views.
They can’t go 3 words without saying “woke”.
Wokewokewokewokewoke…
The Helldivers 2 Steam
review page(edit: it’s comments on announcements) is covered with reviews from accounts that don’t even own the game begging Arrowhead to “not add WOKENESS!” to the game.What review page are you talking about??
Are you sure you’re not just hearing that people have complained and then assuming they actually did?
Sorry, you’re correct- it’s not the reviews, but the comments on any announcement made by the devs that I was remembering.
The lack of mouse icon next to their names means those Steam accounts don’t own the game.
I wonder how many of them are just bots tbh
Cause the game is pretty inherently political. The setting is a farcical fascist govt…
It’s a coordinated effort to make those bigoted assholes seem to be a larger number than they actually are. And we can blame Steve Bannon for that.
Also everyone who participates in the narrative that “regressive are swamping the gaming industry”.
I mean on the plusside, you always know that whenever anybody uses the word “woke” as if it were a real word, you can immediately add them to the blocklist or ban them. Nothing they can add has any value any more.
I see three comments, two of which mention wokeness and one of which mentions sending the dev team to re-education camp.
None of the comments is solely about wokeness. Wokeness is mentioned in conjunction with politics.
One of the comments wants to make sure the game stays “neutral”.
Note that zero of these comments are complaining about diversity. To those who criticize wholeness, it is a distinct thing from diversity.
Do you know what people are referring to when they use that word?
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I provided a screenshot as an example. Obviously I’m not going to link to every fucking bigoted comment. Those were the top three comments; two of which were useful to my point.
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Note that zero of these comments are complaining about diversity
Here, let me make one bigger for you:
They “think” adding more diversity in the form of inclusion and LGBT representation would make the game worse, since apparently that point wasn’t as clear as, say, a fucking foghorn.
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Do you know what people are referring to when they use that word?
Yes. “Woke” means “anything that threatens my worldview of white masculine superiority and reminding me that non-white, non-straight, non-male people exist and should be represented in art hurts my fee-fees.”
But sure, explain how it’s really about “ethics in gaming journalism”.
Can you make that bigger? 😛
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How they can review a game without own it on steam?
I edited my comment, but I was wrong in that it’s not the review page that gets swarmed but the comments on announcements that Arrowhead makes. Anyone can comment on an announcement (which makes sense, if [for example] it’s about an upcoming feature that isn’t out yet.)
I see, steam community foruns.
It’s better to not go into these, full of fanboys, haters and stupid people farming fake points.
I’m guessing they buy, review, refund? Not sure if that also removes the review as I almost never refund or review games.
Ding ding ding
I feel like that’s just a very loud minority among those who play games. As you’ve so stated, the majority of people who play these games either do not care for politics in video games, and another subset prefer it that way.
If even the greediest of companies in the video game industry keep doing that, that means they’ve analyzed the market and having politics in video games might have between no to a positive impact on sales.
I heavily agree with this. If there’s one thing I’ve learned about video games and gamers, it’s that people who are happy with their games, are playing their games! The people who aren’t happy, are going to Reddit and the forums to bitch and moan. The anti-“woke” crowd is fueled by outrage. And that’s all it is: senseless outrage. There’s no substance to it. Let them scream into the void until they tire themselves out.
That hatred comes from like 0.1% of gamers, if that.
No, the fanbase is regressing, but they’re also not getting products that suit their tastes. There’s a lot of stuff to play that’s different, and the people that removed go back to the dwindingly bad quality AAA Live Service slop. They’re not for us. When the AAA bubble bursts, they’ll fuck off to another form of media.
Sure, it is largely the fanbase, however I also think that the game industry seems to sometimes do somewhat of a “woke-washing”, meaning opically supporting the LGBTQIA movement because of financial, shitstorm-prevention or other reasons than just wanting to create more diverse and inclusive games.
For instance I like Hogwarts Legacy, but it also takes place in the Victorian era, and it seems to project the modern tolerant society ideals onto the wizarding world of that time.
Depicting the society as inclusive and diverse is somewhat history revisionist. If you play as a non-binary or trans person at that time, then you should have to deal with prejudice and marginalization, otherwise it is just “woke-wash” the history.
So, IMO there are some cases, especially in historic (fantasy) games, where injecting modern ideals and standards might not fit or needs to be better addressed, than just let it be cosmetic.
They shouldn’t do a halfhearted job.
I disagree. The rule is “sex sells”, always has, always will be, period.
The people that complain about “wokeness” in games are a small but loud minority. The majority doesn’t care, hells seeing the steam achievements for some games the majority doesn’t even care to finish a game past the tutorial yet alone care about story or characters.
The problem is the approach to game design has changed. In the earlier stages of gaming, you would take a fun concept (finding perfect fits for boxes) and make it into a game (Tetris), that was all there was, Super Mario was literally called “Jump & Run Man” at one point. It was the essence of fun presented in a replayable form. Now games have to have a story, morals, relatable characters or some sort of overlaying message. This together with good gameplay can create a very good game no doubt. But each aspect has to be good on its own.
Take away the story from Last of Us and it’s essentially a 3rd person arena shooter, but it’s a good one at that. This alone would be a good selling point, add on top the story and you have an objectively good game.
But take Saint Row 5 as an example, take away the story and it’s a less than mediocre 3rd Person sandbox game, the fact that the story isn’t compelling either makes it objectively bad.
Rember the Hot/Crazy scale from His I Met Your Mother? Well there is also a Hot/Boring scale for games. If your game is boring it has to compensate by having hotter characters, if it’s fun it can get away with uglier ones. I can name countless examples where this is true.Studios often overlook this connection. I’m all for diversification of the actual development environment but not the games themselves. It should always be fun first.
Never in my life have I heard anybody say “Are you going to get new game …? I’ve heard you can play as a black woman in this one. So cool.”
Studios then get upset because their model “Here diversity. Where money?” isn’t paying off.
It’s like not wanting to buy a cheaply made plastic valve for a boiler over a solid metal one and the company asks “Why are you not buying it? We made it blue.”The fanbase is never going to change, because at some point we all realize that we want value for our money and often times studios spend so much time and effort making a game diverse, they forget to make it fun.
Never in my life have I heard anybody say “Are you going to get new game …? I’ve heard you can play as a black woman in this one. So cool.”
Hrm, anecdotally I have quite a lot of formerly non-gamer friends who were really hyped for say, Life is Strange: True Colors, specifically because they were excited about how Alex breaks some beauty norms and gets to flirt with Steph on top of that.
Of course, anecdotally.
But it’s important to keep in mind that we’re no longer an industry of 5 teams creating 20 games a year. There’s so many games that there is more than enough space for every game. From absolutely purist near-identityless gameplay-only designs (Which exist in droves) to huge mass-market hyper-produced open worlds all the way to purist story/feels only visual novels and experimental art pieces.
And each of these categories has more games each year than the entire market around the Gameboy time had. Gaming is insanely big now.
You’re blaming games not being fun on devs “wasting time” to ensure diversity in their games? You realize the people who work on the story and characters aren’t the same as the ones coding the game mechanics right? The two have almost nothing to do with one another. Studios aren’t forgetting to make games fun due to diversity lmao. They are having to spend a lot more man hours than they did in the past because of the advancements in development tenchology.
Never in my life have I heard anybody say “Are you going to get new game …? I’ve heard you can play as a black woman in this one. So cool.”
I have. It was more along the lines of, “Dragon Ball FighterZ has no waifus” or “there’s no one with any melanin in this game [until they found out about Nagoriyuki in Guilty Gear Strive]”. I would not be the least bit surprised if Street Fighter 6 is more popular with women than any previous entry after taking the bad male characters from previous entries and remixing them as women (Manon, Lily, A.K.I., Kimberly).
I definitely play a few horny games, and don’t recommend them to anyone. In the other hand, I have actually skipped certain games, and hated some others, because they were trying to tell an engaging story and got hung up on cringey sexualization of their female leads.
As you said, it’s all up to consumer preference. It isn’t just watch-dogging and shaming of sexualization, it’s also that there’s a lot of people that find lazy sexualization to be disengaging and hardly unique. Plenty of the time getting the characters to look unique and interesting is also a challenge; and diversity often helps with that.
‘Going woke,’ is referring to intent.
Are you meeting quotes or actually engaging with race on a substantiative level.
It’s undoubtable that a lot of race casting in recent times has been to appease audiences rather than and honest engagement with reality and irl race relations.
Intent… it matters.
Intent does matter.
But the vast majority of complaints about a game being “woke” are just the inclusion of a character this a minority in some way. The complaint isn’t about how they’re included, just that they are, usually as a main or highly visible character.
I disagree… of course in countries like America you would have some outspoken actual racist n shit…
But the vast majority of people just don’t like casting for castings sake…
Nobody bitches about sigourney weaver in alien… nobody bitches about Denzel playing leading roles cos he’s black, calling it 'woke. ’
Why don’t people call that woke?
Because its obvious. When a project is hiring just to fill a quota, often…it is extremely obvious.
The vast vast vast majority of people don’t care what race, gender,sexuality you are, just as long as those things werent being taken into account when trying to get a job.
Yaknow… basic equal human rights stuff.
So if that’s all it’s about, why is there so much complaining about the race or gender of fictional characters in a video game?
I would imagine a whole myriad of different reasons, some rational and logical and some bigoted and dunse.
And not to mention, I have seen many many many comments upset about race focused casting (over talent, ability, suitability to the role etc) and then people ask 'why are you complaining about race of gender of a fictional character."
So… they think they commentor is being racist because they actually engage with the subject.
Why don’t people call that woke?
Because this whole woke bullshit is a recent gamergate thing of the past decade or so, especially after US politics became even nuttier and “conservatives” completely started to lose their plot.
And please. Just go into the Steam forums of a game that has for example a poc woman as main character, or uses body type A & B instead of “male” & “female”. There’s literally countless of examples of people completely losing their shit over games, movies and shows over the recent years. Hell, even in this very comment section here we see people who think they as a white man are apparently underrepresented nowadays.
Well yeah. The vast majority of people identify as male or female.
When the game goes to “body type A and body type B” they are erasing those people’s opportunity to feel represented in the game.
Diversity does not mean removing options for a person to feel represented.
This is an excellent example of where the concepts of “woke” and “diverse” not only differ but are in opposition to one another.
When the game goes to “body type A and body type B” they are erasing those people’s opportunity to feel represented in the game.
Diversity does not mean removing options for a person to feel represented.
No, they’re not. There literally was no option that got removed, just something changed to include more people than before.
But thanks for proving my point. Maybe I shouldn’t give the Cybertruck defender the benefit of the doubt here.
People just want to play a game. Not have to go from a normal non sexualized zombie game to a now weirdly sexualized zombie game. And then they were made to be the bad guy for not wanting to play the game. If I don’t want to watch a LGB kind of movie that’s no problem because I’m not LGBT but when it comes to games I’m homophobic for not wanting to participate.
The problem is the industry thinks the fans owes it to them to play their shitty based game. We don’t have to play if we don’t want to. And it doesn’t make us non inclusive for not.
This same person will claim that Dead Rising, a series that’s had hot twin sisters battle you with katanas, is not sexualized.
That has to be copium. If I don’t want to play the game then I don’t have to lmao be mad. Idc if hot twin sisters battle me with katanas if you do then… Don’t play?
I think you missed the point of the person you replied to.
No I didn’t but keep thinking.
No you did, keep thinking.
So explain how? Otherwise it’s just ad hominem. I mean if two twin Butler shirtless 6 pack men or woman attacked me in some game with katanas that’s sexualized? I’m sorry but how horny are you? I don’t think that’s sexualizing I think thats time for me to play the game and defeat them like???
but when it comes to games I’m homophobic for not wanting to participate.
No, you’re a bigot for publicly crying about it on end instead of just not buying it. No one would give a shit about you for you not buying a game. It’s when you go to the forums and start crying woke.
I have not cried woke. In fact nobody cries about the wokeness or whatever bullshit they dislike in games. It’s actually quite the opposite. Where posts like this cry about people for not wanting to participate. It’s fine for me to have and even state my opinion that I’m not gay so I don’t want to play a game advertised as being a gay kind of game lmao. Especially on a post like this. If you truly didn’t give a shit then… You wouldn’t give a shit. Why respond here?
In fact nobody cries about the wokeness or whatever bullshit they dislike in games. It’s actually quite the opposite.
lol
If you truly didn’t give a shit then… You wouldn’t give a shit. Why respond here?
Oh no… Are you offended that I’m not tolerating your intolerance? I’m so not sorry.
I tolerate just fine. I just don’t partake. Cry about it.
Gotta love the “NO U!!1” replies from you. I guess I really hit the nail on the head here.
Sure did. You hit that nail!
You’re a homonculus
I think greater access to game development tools has been a very good thing for the industry. These days, I’m generally much more interested in what’s coming from indie developers than any of the big companies, with a few exceptions. I think that’s the best way to increase the diversity of games and game developers. Greater access to game development resources will help to democratize the gaming industry.
Yep, the vast majority of the games I buy at this point are coming from indies.
The main issue is large studios want to make a safe game that does everything and appeals to everyone. Meanwhile, indies are making games that are fun-first and targeted at specific audiences, rather than just the mean.
Games like Factorio could be made by a big studio, but it wasn’t, because it don’t have mass appeal. Meanwhile, if you are in it’s target audience, it is a 10/10 game. And it isn’t like the studio had to shovel $200m into a pit to make this 10/10 game.
The industry’s effort to be more inclusive and diverse mostly comes from indie games, though. Of course AAA has long realized the potential to boost their image by copying some mechanics and ideas but let’s not pretend any of those CEOs on their high horses actually cares about inclusion. They’ll drop any efforts the very moment it doesn’t benefit them directly. But there will always be passionate indie developers pushing boundaries to actually help more people enjoy games.
I mean, GW2 (by Arenanet, owned by NCSoft) has had a lesbian couple since the first Living World season, and had a non-binary character in the 3rd expansion. They have inclusivity in a way that doesn’t feel hamfisted or marketed; it’s just in there because they feel like their world should have all sorts of people.
Gaming is not the most refined form of play. The most refined form of play is unstructured, spontaneous, and uses imagination. Gaming is the opposite of that. It is essentially a grim struggle to perform at one’s best in a 100% defined environment and ruleset.
I’m a gamer. Mad respect for gaming. I use it to achieve flow and improve the precision and skill of my brain.
But I don’t really consider it “playing” in the sense that puppies and little kids play.
The most refined form of play is unstructured, spontaneous, and uses imagination.
[citation needed]
I’m all for inclusion of everyone and others being treated fairly.
What I’m not for is how it’s being implemented in the industry currently.
It’s an inclusion for me, exclusion for thee, motto, and it’s ruining some games.
please elaborate. because from what I’m seeing, people are outraged over just having more character creation options or more variety of characters. i can’t see how that’s exclusion.
Many companies have been hiring only Dei candidates and excluding white people completely.
Black girl gamers is one An ex employee said it themselves.
Many others follow the same.
The elusive Nazi on Lemmy. How funny. I can’t fathom how fragile your self identity as “white man” must be, if the inclusion of non white people and women in video games is somehow this upsetting to you. I bet you’re one of those people who cry about wokeism on the Steam forums.
You’re sick in the head if you’re calling me a nazi.
Get help.
You’re the one crying about & spreading white genocide propaganda, which is a Nazi conspiracy theory. That makes you a Nazi.
Black Girl Games is one of several consulting companies that promote more diversity in games and other media. Not to exclude white people completely.
Let’s see what we can agree on here, please stop me when you disagree with my statement.
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Racism still exists and is a problem in the world today
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The best tool we have against racism is knowledge and exposure to other cultures and ethnicities
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Having more than two or three AAA games with a main character that is a minority will give gamers that first hand experience with the represented culture
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Therefore, more representation is good for combating racism and as an extra benefit is giving more diverse worlds/stories to play
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There are still a metric buttload of games with white main characters or character creators that let you be white
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Minorities will be happy to see themselves represented
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Diversity is not the enemy, and companies are trying to level the playing field, not erase white people
I want to know specifically what your problem with dei efforts are so we can clear up any confusion.
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How so? As in, who is being excluded and how so?
