They line up in front of a courthouse in southeastern France, from morning to evening, and have gathered in the thousands in cities across the country. They hold signs reading, “one rape every six minutes,” “not all men but always a man,” and “giving in is not consenting.”
They chant: “Rapist we see you, victim we believe you.”
Women across France are rallying in support of Gisèle Pelicot, a 72-year-old reluctant icon whose husband is on trial in the city of Avignon for systematically drugging her and inviting dozens of men, 50 of whom are now his co-defendants, into their home to rape her over nearly a decade.
The shocking case has sparked what many women in France call a long-overdue reckoning over “rape culture” and systemic sexism in the way the judicial system handles sexual violence.
not all men but always a man
Pointless sexist bullshit and wrong on its face. I never understood the drive some people have to paint abusive behavior as exclusive to men.
I guess it’s sometimes done in the spirit of forcing men to really consider their actions, because most of the men I know tend to think abusive men are always other men. And we usually have plenty excuses for our own abusive behavior. So it is like saying: “no, stop with the excuses, the problem is you”, in the hopes that this message will also reach its intended audience, ie the many men who are abusive to women in one way or another and, largely, in denial.
But I agree, these kinds of slogans annoy the hell out of me too and are totally not helpful in more ways than one, e.g., when men seek protection from abuse. I guess there are better ways of making a more forceful point about holding men accountable.
most of the men I know tend to think abusive men are always other men
I’m sure most if not all abusers are in denial and don’t consider themselves abusers, but this slogan gives a pass to ones who happen to be women by insisting that they don’t exist at all.
The number of sexual assault victims in France increased by 33% in 2021 and nearly doubled from 2017, according to a government report. Women made up 89% of rape victims, while 96% of sexual violence perpetrators were men.
Oh yeah, that 4% of sexual assaults being committed by women that are being totally ignored by the media is the REAL problem.
Nice try from an overly quoted study done on bad faith, here is a better one that shows, with sources, that said study is incorrect.
Ok Mr False Equivalency. That study is from 2017. This one is from 2015.
That Scientific American article and study also pertain to America. And the statistic in the article is from the French government report from 2021.Edit: I couldn’t find the statistics from 2021 but I could find this one from 2024. And would you look at that, the statistics on the percentage of male rapists in France is even higher now.
I’m not out to debate the statistics of “REAL problem” with you. I’m pointing out that it’s counterproductive (and I believe morally wrong) to tell survivors they’re unworthy because their abuser was a woman. I get the feeling some people care more about gendering this issue than they do about about victims of abuse.
Yeah literally no one is saying that a victim of sexual assault is unworthy of anything because their assaulter is a woman and not a man. We’re talking about the issue of men thinking it’s okay to sexually assault because it’s almost never fucking prosecuted.
Bringing up the statistic of female perpetrators is simply a way of deflecting the responsibility of men to acknowledge and hold accountability to their fellow men who commit sexual assault.
I’ve said it elsewhere in this thread but this is exactly the same as the gun enthusiasts bringing up mental illness statistics as a way of absolving guns of their role in gun violence.
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Exactly. If anything, signs like these drag the attention away from the actual issue.
I mean this thread is a good example of that and why such signs are bad
And pray tell, what exactly is the “real” issue?
Men and women being victims of sexual abuse, perpetrated by both men and women. It is not a genderlocked issue.
No but the number of assaults by men far outweigh the number by women. And that Scientific American article is just your way of brushing off the fact that men are the primary offenders when it comes to sexual assault. You are exactly like the gun enthusiasts who throw the statistics on mental illness as the true cause of gun deaths and not the guns they use.
“Primary” does not mean “always” however
Oh yeah, you got me there. Statistically small number of women who commit sexual assault completely absolves all men of being complicit in the sexual assault committed by mostly men. We definitely have to correct our perceptions on that one. Sure okay.
hey as a guy who was assaulted, please stop saying all men are complicit. do you understand what you’re saying when you say that?
Removed by mod
Funny how ready you are to claim a random person you don’t know is an abuser for making a good point.
And completely failing to comprehend that what YOU are doing is abusive behavior. Real gold star child behavior.
I think that was a meme that should have been put on the sign, not against the comment.
If that’s the case, holy shit does that need to be specified.
Seemed pretty clear to me that @[email protected] is calling me a rapist for daring to criticize the claim that rapists are always men
Same, hence why I replied to them. Lots of mental gymnastics to see it any other way.
Edit: Based on this(https://sh.itjust.works/comment/14310375) comment by them, further down the thread, seems like you were correct. Hope the mods do something about that bigoted asshole, whom I already reported.
Yeah, that was my take, too.
Or like, dont just make assumptions about what people seem to be saying and ask them what they are trying to say?
Saves a lot of needless anger and confusion to just extend an iota of goodwill before jumping to conclusions
People are literally the worst at communicating to each other when we don’t have personal relationships with the other people
And when i said don’t JUST make assumptions it means exactly that. Make your assumptions if you need to but if you don’t confirm them then maybe do that before you get upset with another person’s words
Based on this(https://sh.itjust.works/comment/14310375) comment by them, further down the thread, seems like you were correct. Hope the mods do something about that bigoted asshole, whom I already reported.
Sorry, I don’t understand what you said.
Edit: Oh, you meant that it should be on one of the posters protesting about The Monster of Avignon, then certainly. He is a disgusting human, completely atrocious and his wife is a massive hero, for standing up to such scrutiny and to the public eye, I wish I could bake her a pie or something for being so brave, and an inspiration to abuse victims everywhere.
This is the way.
‘Not all men but always a man’ seems to marginalise victims of female rapists, which do exist.
Otherwise, I’m absolutely in favour of rehabilitation, and if necessary, isolation of rapists - of all genders. I hope the court/government can be made to agree
Women made up 89% of rape victims, while 96% of sexual violence perpetrators were men.
Oh yes that 4% really really must be stopped.
Yes.
All of it should be. Why the fuck shouldn’t it be stopped too? Wtf?
Nice try from an overly quoted study done on bad faith, here is a better one that shows, with sources, that said study is incorrect.
From the article:
The number of sexual assault victims in France increased by 33% in 2021 and nearly doubled from 2017, according to a government report. Women made up 89% of rape victims, while 96% of sexual violence perpetrators were men.
It seems that sexual violence has been hidden in plain sight and downplayed heavily by the police and justice system, or simply socially accepted.
It’s estimated 10% of people have been victim of incest, here in France. How can you build something safe based on that.
I don’t believe our current justice system allows for proper rehabilitation. Second offense for such crimes are still very high (10%?).
IMHO It’s a nation wide educational failure and our politicians aren’t really keen on fixing this, for now.
Were you responding to something specific I said or just providing more facts?
Just providing more facts on the “all men” plus maybe a bit more context on the situation here.
Nice try from an overly quoted study done on bad faith, here is a better one that shows, with sources, that said study is incorrect.
Keep in mind those numbers don’t perfectly reflect reality though. Probably a few percents off in favor of women
Women made up 89% of rape victims, while 96% of sexual violence perpetrators were men.
Ok, so not so men but 96% of perpetrators are men.
This very precise statistic comes from a single study made in bad faith, over 20 years ago. If you want to read a more recent study, with linked sources, feel free to check https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/sexual-victimization-by-women-is-more-common-than-previously-known/
That percentage came from the 2021 report by the French government. This is not outdated information. And it’s pertains to France not America.
But remember, if they exclude themselves hard enough so they never have to take any accountability for at the very least enabling those 96%, and talk over survivors at Every. Single. Opportunity, making themselves the victims, they’ll teach us how wrong we are, and what oppressed Good Guys™ they really are!
(Hint for those playing along at home: actually decent men are aware that they are complicit by their very existence as men under the patriarchy, and invest their energy in being better and calling out their fellow men to try and improve your collective reputation, not in getting defensive and derailing every conversation about gendered violence they come across to make it about themselves and how unfair these facts are to them, proving that reputation right)
No, no one is complicit in anything by their very existence. You don’t get to blame people for other people doing something bad in a group they didn’t choose to belong to.
actually decent men are aware that they are complicit by their very existence as men under the patriarchy, and invest their energy in being better and calling out their fellow men to try and improve your collective reputation
This is bald-faced, shameless bigotry and reflects a real lack of self awareness
they are complicit by their very existence as men under the patriarchy
Get fucked.
No, you.
Reported.
I can tell all of those commenting on “Not all men …” this: Those women don’t give a shit what you think. So 4% aren’t men, you know what, it might not be technically correct, but it’s certainly close enough.
Also you sound like the “All Lives Matter” folks.
Let it go.
The heck you mean “close enough”, 4% is not within margin of error, and even then this is a grave accusation to lump on an entire demographic.
Nice try from an overly quoted study done on bad faith, here is a better one that shows, with sources, that said study is incorrect.
Let’s see how long it takes for rape apologists to show up
I’m a man who was sexually abused by a woman when I was a child. If I point out that the sign in the thumbnail is both untrue and is a dangerous oversimplification am I a rape apologist?
At least 3 unhinged morons agree that you’re a rape apologist.
I have encountered more lunatics on Lemmy than I have in any other place in my entire life. It’s fucking astounding.
I don’t think that happens here? One of the reasons I’ve stuck with lemmy is that it’s relatively nice.
The commenter probably saw the “Always a man” part of the protest sign and is daring someone to deny it.
It’s an unfortunate sign to feature in the main article picture because it distracts from the story. There’s no issue focusing on one part of an issue (victimization of women) and not all parts (sexual abuse and rape in general). But denying the larger problem exists is counterproductive.
It’s an unfortunate sign to feature in the main article picture because it distracts from the story.
Unfortunate but not a mistake. Like anything else in media, their only goal is to sew controversy and drive clicks and “engagement”. I can’t imagine any other reason why this would be the main photo of the article. I hope and do not believe that this is the kinda sexist bullshit that represents the majority.
I’ll take the bait too because I’ve personally known a female abuser (never did anything to me but raped a 14 year old as a teacher) and it makes me furious that a so-called activist would not only disregard crime that doesn’t fit their narrative, but try to gaslight the rest of the world into doing it too.
Pointing out language that excludes a massive number of victims isn’t rape apology.
Women can be victims of women too, though. Look at how many mothers have subjected their daughters to genital mutilation, for example.
I think it’s pretty reasonable to say, “please don’t use exclusionary language that implies some victims are more valid than others”.
Because the braindead instances get blocked by most, and I love it ❤️
I’d say it (E: not just rape apology, but misogyny in general) only happens a tiny margin less than on the rest of the internet, which is to say it still happens a whole fucking lot, even if they are sometimes a little less blatant with it.
E: in case the replies and the up/down vote ratios in this post alone isn’t evidence enough, the mod log sure shows what positions are defended in one of the biggest spaces on here.
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