- cross-posted to:
- politics_no_um
- cross-posted to:
- politics_no_um
I can’t wait for Democrats to accuse one of their own of being a Russian asset.
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These are the poll options in Indiana. No write-ins. Write-ins have to fill out a form to declare it. There was no space to write in a candidate.
I would like to know who Rashida Tlaib thinks Hoosiers should vote for:
(I’m enjoying asking this of people who think it shouldn’t be Harris and not getting an answer.)
She flat out told people to vote straight ticket Democrat in this very speech.
This article is just an attempt at ratfucking because she didn’t explicitly say she was specifically endorsing Harris.
OP will engage in a ten hour discussion in the bad comments replying within seconds every time and not do one multiple choice question
I wouldn’t be surprised if OP has blocked this user. A lot of people have or just avoid engaging this person. Unpleasant interactions with this user is a known thing.
You’re probably right that OP has blocked this person (every sane comment has downvotes except in this chain!), but “unpleasant interactions?” I’m having unpleasant interactions with OP right now (I have put it on hold until they solve the multiple choice question above, though) and that individual sure can’t stop posting. Since I remain clearly unblocked, I have to conclude that OP blocked this person for some reason other than “unpleasant interactions.” Anyway if OP is curious about stuff they can’t see due to choosing to not see it, OP can log out of the account that’s choosing to not see the stuff.
I’m being polite when I say unpleasant. Let’s just say this user has a reputation, and not a good one. A lot of .world admins are very strict with personal attacks, even when its calling out a pattern so I’ll just leave it at that.
OP either has squid blocked or is avoiding him. A quick glance at modlogs cleared up the why for me lol.
I don’t think not endorsing is the same as saying vote for someone else. I won’t endorse McDonald’s but if I’m starving with no other option I would have to eat it.
There certainly are plenty of people here on Lemmy saying not to vote for her.
And so far not telling me who I should have voted for given my options.
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Absolutely! I don’t think that is necessarily implied by not endorsing, that’s all
I can’t wait for Democrats to accuse one of their own of being a Russian asset.
Why would they?
Because their strategy for responding to any criticism of Harris, Biden, or the Democrats is to accuse the critic of being a Russian asset.
I imagine right now they’re debating about whether they can credibly accuse of Rashida Tlaib of being a Russian asset without it backfiring on them.
I haven’t seen that response unless someone has credible connections to Russia, like Trump or Stein.
Also, her complaints are 100% valid.
Ironically you’re the one dismissing criticism of people supporting Russian interests in a completely unrelated post.
OP is also pushing the assumption: “Everyone is either 100% paid by Putin directly, or 100% totally fine.” This is a bad assumption. It’s totally fine to say “I, an internet poster, have no idea as to how many handshakes away from Putin this person is. They could be paid, or paid by a surrogate, or ten degrees of that, or they could have been fooled into sincerely believing RT talking points. However, their behavior and statements are useful idiot behavior and useful idiot statements, and I’m judging them appropriately.”
OP is also pushing the assumption: “Everyone is either 100% paid by Putin directly, or 100% totally fine.”
That’s not something I believe, and I don’t see how anything I’ve said assumes that.
I haven’t seen that response unless someone has credible connections to Russia, like Trump or Stein.
I’ve seen people on Lemmy suggest that the Pope is a Russian asset.
https://lemmy.world/comment/12053409
Also, I’ve been called a Russian asset plenty of times, and I’m even banned from some subs for supposedly being a Russian asset, and I have no connections to Russia at all. I’ve never been to Russia, I have no family from Russia, and I don’t speak Russian.
I definitely have you marked as maybe pro-Russia because you’re openly mocking criticism and helping the pro/neutral-Russia narrative. I don’t think it’s intentional, but I’m not ruling it out either.
I can’t access the link you posted. So I’ll take your word for it. But I can’t see how many votes it has or what their reasoning is.
I can’t access the link you posted. So I’ll take your word for it. But I can’t see how many votes it has or what their reasoning is.
You might have the poster blocked. You can see it if you open the link in an Incognito window. It has 15 upvotes.
I definitely have you marked as maybe pro-Russia
First of all, even if I was pro-Russia, that doesn’t mean I’m a Russian asset. Assets operate under instructions and get paid for it (I assume).
Secondly, I’m not pro-Russia. I mean, I’d like to think I appreciate Russian culture in the same way I appreciate all world cultures, but I have no particular loyalty or sympathy for the Russian government. (And I don’t even know much about Russian culture. I’ve never read Tolstoy or Pushkin. I don’t think I could name a single Russian dish apart from borscht.)
I think that Ukraine is a puppet of the Western powers, and I think that the US and NATO provoked the war in the Donbas. I don’t think that makes me pro-Russia. If I was pro-Russia, then I would want Russia to win the war, and truth is I don’t care which side wins the war. I just want it to be over. Ideally, I’d like the people of the Donbas to have a referendum about which country they’d like to be a part of, but neither Ukraine or Russia are going to let that happen.
I also think a lot of the information we’re getting about the war in the Ukraine is blatant propaganda. Like, we’re supposed to believe they killed 10,000 Russian troops last week? Then why are they freaking out about 1,500 troops coming from North Korea? (Even if North Korea sent 10,000 troops, that’s still only one week’s worth, right?) Again, I don’t think that makes me pro-Russia. That makes me pro-truth.
I am also pro-BRICS, because I support a multi-polar future for our world. I don’t think that makes me pro-Russia anymore than it makes more pro-Brazil or pro-Ethiopia. (I don’t see BRICS as an anti-Western alliance. Also, Brazil is a Western country.)
I will be upfront about all of this. I am not hiding any of it.
Thanks, I’ve updated the tag to “Russia Sympathizer”.
(I mean, I get it. We live in a 1984-style dystopia where I can’t question our very questionable government without being accused of being a traitor and secretly loyal to whichever foreign power is considered the enemy this week, and I should consider myself lucky that I don’t end up in Room 101, or Guantanamo Bay, or the Embassy of Ecuador in London. Yeah, I know.)
Well, I specifically said I don’t have any particular sympathy for the Russian government, but whatever.
How are you tagging people? Is there a third-party software for that? I’m not very good at using Lemmy.
I think that Ukraine is a puppet of the Western powers, and I think that the US and NATO provoked the war in the Donbas.
How about Russian invading Crimea in 2014? Do you say that’s somehow the US and NATO’s fault too?
And I don’t even know much about Russian culture.
…and…
I’d like the people of the Donbas to have a referendum about which country they’d like to be a part of, but neither Ukraine or Russia are going to let that happen.
The first statement of yours is why the the second statement of yours doesn’t work. You’re missing the knowledge of Russian history and politics. Part of the Soviet/Russian way is to take over a territory, then deport all of its local population to other parts of Russia and replace the population with Russians. Not only was this done historically in Donetsk and Luhansk (Eastern Ukraine) prior to the breakup of the Soviet Union, but even after the Russian invasion in 2014 to these areas Russia went back to their old methods and move much of the Ukrainian population out. source
So if you had your way, the people voting would include large portions of recently settle Russians to the Ukrainian territories. Which way do you think Russians would vote on that?
the second statement of yours doesn’t work.
So you’re arguing against self-determination for the inhabitants of the Donbas on the grounds that the territory historically belonged to Ukraine. (Which does seem to be the attitude of the Ukrainian government.)
I don’t think that’s a good argument against self-determination. And that’s how you end up with separatist violence.
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Well, that’s quite shocking. Who could have expected her to not endorse someone who supports the ethnic cleansing of her ethnicity?
People need to remember that Rashiba Tlaib is Palestinian-American.
This is not some just some overseas event, but rather a severe personal grievance. It’s difficult to imagine a more pressing issue.
They know. They just don’t care. They would rather have the attitude of “What are your choices? Vote for us even as we kill your people” rather than try to understand where she’s coming from.
there’s a typical sneaky bullshitter strategy that sneaky bullshitters always use (i am using “bullshit” according to the wikipedia definition so it is civility, there’s no other way to communicate the idea). the strat is this: sneak an assumption in and treat it as a fact. then, start an argument about an unrelated thing. nobody argues about the assumption. kapow! the sneaky bullshitter has just sneakily pushed a bullshit idea and gotten away with it. can you find the assumption, internet posters?
It’s called “presupposing a frame”, and Innuendo Studios did a really good piece about it here.
I’m familiar with what that is. I just don’t think I’m doing that.
I didn’t say you are, nor was I responding to you. I was giving them the term they were trying to define.
Are you saying you don’t think Rashida Tlaib is one of the Democratic party’s own? Or that disinformation from the Russian government is real? Because I strongly disagree with the first one but strongly agree with the latter.
Side note: rhetorical questions are frequently very unhelpful for forthright communication.
Since this is down in the bad comments zone and my attempt at getting people to play “find the assumption” has failed I’m gonna just answer this (also I looked at your post history and you seem to be a real human). “I can’t wait for Democrats to accuse one of their own of being a Russian asset.” “Democrats to accuse one of their own of being a Russian asset.” “Democrats” “If you can solve the multiple choice question of which of the four candidates to vote for, you are a centrist/liberal (in the leftist sense)/duopoly/two-sides-of-the-same-coin-boi. No leftist/proper radical/cool tough guy who is very cool and tough like me would ever accuse Tlaib of being a Russian asset, so if you do, I am drawing myself as the Chad Leftist and you as the Soyjack Centrist” It’s the kind of openly silly opinion that, if you say it openly, people laugh at you, so OP simply assumes it and attempt to change the subject before anyone notices, thus normalizing it. A person not pushing an agenda who writes like a normal person would probably say “I can’t wait for you dumbdumbs/Lemmy to accuse Tlaib of being a Russian asset” or more likely just not bring it up at all. People are gonna accuse me of being silly but there’s simply no reason to bring it up and phrase it that way unless that’s what you’re attempting.
Ok, if I’m interpreting you correctly, you’re saying it would be absurd to call Tlaib a Russian asset, but no one has actually done that, and OP’s preemptive accusation that Democratic party spokespeople and/or us dumbdumbs will say that is a concealed and unfounded accusation? Because that I think I agree with (at least the unfounded part, I don’t know if there was intent to conceal or if this was just a clumsy but good faith effort at expressing an opinion you and I disagree with).
On the other hand, if you’re calling a Palestinian American lawmaker a Russian asset (e.g. unAmerican, fifth columnist, etc., which is all xenophobic John Bircher crap I’ve got no patience for) I’ve got a really strong disagreement with you, but it seems like that is the opposite of what you’re saying.
"[…] No leftist/proper radical/cool tough guy who is very cool and tough like me would ever accuse Tlaib of being a Russian asset, so if you do, I am drawing myself as the Chad Leftist and you as the Soyjack Centrist” It’s the kind of openly silly opinion that, if you say it openly, people laugh at you, so OP simply assumes it
Are you saying that I’m (sneakily) assuming that’s it’s ridiculous to accuse Tlaib of being a Russian asset? (I’m not trying to paraphrase you, I’m just genuinely not exactly sure of what you’re saying.)
I do believe it would be ridiculous to accuse Tlaib of being a Russian asset. I am not being sneaky about that. I will openly say it. Here, listen to me say it:
No leftist/proper radical/cool tough guy who is very cool and tough like me would ever accuse Tlaib of being a Russian asset.
Are you calling me sneaky?
look no offense but I’m speaking to the people you’re attempting to influence (mods removed a slightly different phrasing of this for civility reasons, let’s see if removing a key phrase is good enough)
If you think I have snuck in an unwarranted assumption, you should say what you think that is. Surely it would be to the benefit of the people you are speaking to.
(Or are you just broadly casting aspersions that you can’t substantiate?)
Look I’m gonna engage with this for the benefit of people watching. I’m not engaging in personal attacks as you’re attempting to imply. I don’t want to “own” you in a debate. I want the people reading this to look more critically at the opinion you’re trying to insert without directly saying, so that they’re better inoculated against this kind of stuff in the future. Just saying “you opinion bad me good” doesn’t do that! Of course if you wanted to have a truly gigantic brain and “own” me you could openly name the assumption you’re trying to push, and show it isn’t an assumption (which is your job to do as the person making the argument, by the way, unless you’re a “prove there’s no bigfoot anywhere” type individual)
I want the people reading this to look more critically at the opinion you’re trying to insert
What opinion am I trying to insert?
you could openly name the assumption you’re trying to push
I literally have no idea what assumption you’re talking about, and I’m starting to suspect you don’t either.
I’m not continuing until you reply to the top comment in your post.
Which comment? Perhaps you could link to it.
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