- cross-posted to:
- fuckcars
- [email protected]
- cross-posted to:
- fuckcars
- [email protected]
Summary
Parallels between Henry Ford and Elon Musk illustrate their transformative roles in automaking alongside troubling political affiliations.
Ford’s antisemitism and support for Nazi Germany mirror Musk’s current opposition to unions and endorsement of Germany’s far-right AfD party, which is linked to neo-Nazism.
Musk’s intervention in Germany’s election and promotion of far-right figures on X echoes Ford’s use of media to propagate hate.
Both industrialists are criticized for their social and political impact beyond their industries, with Musk’s actions raising alarm about democracy and labor rights.
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The difference being that ford actually made a buttload of cars and musk bought an existing company that (in comparison) made a tiny amount of cars with so-so quality.
Telsa is beyond enormously overvalued (still) and only because idiots believe he is a genius.
He is not
He is a great comman, but a genius he is not.
Ford was at least good at what he did.
~~ backed fascists ~~ are fascists. FTFY.
Sure, but I think it’s more important what they are doing with their money and power than their own personal philosophy. I don’t care that Elon musk is a fascist. I care that he is a billionaire who is empowering fascists with his wealth.
I don’t care that Elon musk is a fascist.
Why not? It’s a root cause of his empowering other fascists.
If you were surrounded by poor fascists, would that be ok with you?
I wouldn’t read an article about them, that’s for sure. But an article about a dude actively empowering fascists, yes, that’s worth talking about.
Same, I just don’t want people to be under the wrong impression as “were” implies past tense and that only applies to the dead one.
Also:
[email protected] There’s a strong historical link between car companies and racism and classism. They are no small amount responsible for many of today’s societal problems including high cost of housing and the existence of food deserts.
The difference, however, is that Ford actually sold a lot of cars. Musk is essentially being paid for the assumption that he will sell a lot of cars. At some point, maybe…
Another difference is that, along with his racism and fascism, Ford actually had some innovative ideas about manufacturing, rather than just owning shit and mouthing off.
“Let’s piss off liberals who are more likely to buy electric vehicles and see if we make more sales that way. That’s a neat trick.” – President Musk, probably.
That’s what I’m getting at: on the stock market today, it hardly matters whether a business model is actually successful or not - or even whether there is a realistic possibility of success. Tesla is certainly a company with sustainable technology. But does that justify Tesla being worth more than the 5 largest car manufacturers combined, each of which sells way more cars per year than Tesla? Especially in view of the considerable competition in the EV market.
They’ve sold 7 million cars. That’s a lot of cars.
Like I know ya’ll hate the dude but don’t go making shit up.
Toyota sold more than that in just 2024, and that’s just one car company. 7 million seems like a big number, until you realize what the rest of the automotive industry outputs. There’s really no way that Tesla is justified as being worth more than all of it’s competitors.
Now you’re moving the goal posts.
I don’t care about the stocks worth, the OP said Ford (old ford) sold a lot of cars and Tesla hasn’t.
7 Million cars is a lot. There’s not a thing in the world you can say that would ever contradict that.
Edit: If you also want to get into it, Ford sold around 15 million Model T’s and other models in 19 years. Tesla started the Model S (their first self made car) in 2012. We’re 13 years in, and they’re over 7 million. Take 6 more years at 1.8 million each (0 growth) and that would be 17.8 million cars. Tesla is on track to sell more than Ford sold with 0 additional growth. And Tesla is going to keep growing once their newer Models come out.
Ford was selling cars in the 1920s, trying to use absolute values is absurd. Take a look at things like market share. How many cars did Tesla produce this year compared to the rest of the auto industry? It’s a clear minority, not even close to the combined might of the rest of the industry. That is how I can say 7 million is not alot; because it isn’t. 15 million cars were sold in the United States in 2024. That’s one country, one year, buying twice as many cars as the lifetime production of Tesla. That is the scale we are playing in, one where Tesla sales are responsible for just about 11% of the total cars sold in the U.S. last year.
The difference, however, is that Ford actually sold a lot of cars.
Looks like OP is trying to compare the two me.
7 Million of the 2nd most expensive thing people typically ever buy is a lot, whether you want to try and convince yourself it’s not.
Not sure what you are talking about: Tesla delivered 1.79 mio cars last year, less than the year before and not much more than BYD (source). Just for comparison: Toyota alone sold more than 2.3 million cars in North America in 2024 (source)
The 7 million cars you mention without a source can only refer to all the cars Tesla has ever sold. That would still be fewer than Toyota sells worldwide in one year.
We’re not talking about yearly sales. The article is about how musk and ford both backed fascists and then YOU SAY
"The difference, however, is that Ford actually sold a lot of cars. "
So stop moving the goal post and admit you’re wrong.
Also my edit above shows Tesla is on track to sell MORE vehicles than Ford did in the same time frame.
When I was four, I once ate 23 shrimp in one sitting. That’s a lot of shrimp!
If an adult were to eat 23 shrimp, it would be wholly unremarkable.
Ford was the first person to make broadly affordable cars in an immature market.
Around a century later, ford’s numbers are dwarfed by a much larger auto market.
Just because they might sell less cars than others in an established market where the others have decades of extra growth time on them, doesn’t negate the fact that they sell a lot of cars.
You are all delusional in your attempt to deny that 7 million cars is a lot of cars.
Are you serious?
Are you serious?
The difference, however, is that Ford actually sold a lot of cars.
My first instinct was to say “Yeah, but Henry Ford wasn’t an idiot.” But then it occurred to me: We didn’t have Twitter back then. He might have just successfully kept his idiocy under wraps. On the other hand, Ford actually did come from humble origins, so I guess it is unlikely that he was as dumb as Musk.
I mean at least ford recognized his employees should be able to afford his product.
He was an antisemite. You have to be pretty dumb to think a small group of people control the world.
You have to be pretty dumb to think a small group of people control the world.
They do, but the dumb part is believing it a single ethnicity, rather than a single social class.
That social class is not a small group.
Its millions of people, most of which who have no loyalty and will happily sabotage others in the ruling class to make an extra buck.
Millions of people out of 8 billion is a small group…
Millions of people is never a small group.
Yeah, 0.06% of the population is huge!
This is with 5 million out of 8 billion.
Sure is! Get 5 million people in a room and try to get them to agree how they’d like to control the world.
How many Jews are there in this world?
Ford did have his own newspaper https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Dearborn_Independent where he expressed horrible antisemitic views.
Humble origins are not a guarantee of anything. Evidence: I had them as well.
Yet, Ford had some ammount of engineering sense and worker spirit. The Model T, which helped revolutionize cars, was actually engineered by Ford. Everything Musk is famous for making, was engineered by other people.
He also made cars affordable for the middle class, paid his workers double the standard of the time, and the 1st to implement the 5 day 40 hour work week. And he was so independently hateful of Jews that he published a regular newsletter filled with anti-Jewish hate and conspiracy theories that was so prolific that he is the only American for whom Hitler mentioned positively in Mein Kampf. And by positively, I mean Hitler really admired the guy.
Let’s all remember people can do great things and still be various levels of scum. Geniuses, inventors, innovators, revolutionaries, religious leaders, etc. can all be both influencial paradigm shifting people that ultimately changed the world for the better on the whole and still be a fucking asshole who should not be given the power to further their individual shitty worldviews.
Edit: and obviously none of those positive attributes even apply to the whiny entitled manchild that is Elon Musk.
He was also incredibly intrusive into his employees’ lives.
https://autos.yahoo.com/henry-ford-bizarre-social-program-211500105.html
Yeah way back I interviewed early auto worker labour activists and they all talked about how foremen would surprise inspect worker homes and schedule people based on asshole judgements or bribes. Just constant bullshit and meddling until unionization.
I bet you have interesting stories to share!
Yes, i’m not saying ford was good but, he could be argued to be labeled genius or inventor, he did do _something _ himself. Musk is all bark, no invention, no genius, just money in tech.
Nazi Germany made nice Volkswagons too, right? The trains ran great, etc… \s
(spoiler: the trains did not actually run great.)
Hitler had a portrait of Henry Ford in his office and regarded him as his inspiration (yikes!).
He was such a rabid anti-semite the Nazis gave him awards.
Ofc. Cars are fascist. The unsustainable grift of car dependency is based entirely on inequality, extreme privilege, theft, sickness, violence, etc.
Does Musk make cars, though? He bought into Tesla.
All Musk does is own things and act like an asshole.
No, he doesn’t make cars. That’s what robots and wage slaves are for. But that doesn’t have anything to do with him being a founder or not. (not)
I wish the myth of Musk would be something the “liberal media” would work to puncture…I watched a video where I saw Piers Morgan saying nonsense about Musk and I think Neil deGrasse Tyson only pushed back on some of it.
The common framing is that Musk is super genius who founded all these companies, is an engineer with multiple degrees, and it’s just all lies.
