I thought this article was interesting, in that I am immediately suspicious of the motives of some of people quoted. The conclusion runs counter to what I want to be true, and I’m curious what other people make of it.
Also men: Do you actually feel attacked? I’m not sure I’ve ever seen someone criticised for like being strong and capable, or a good carpenter, or a protective dad or whatever. Is this a real thing? or just something that is used as cover like the traditional values vs violent misogyny terminology.
P.S. Thinking there are hordes of ravenous cancellers waiting in the wings is extremely funny to me. Not exactly beating the allegations that listening to Jo Rogan damages your perception of reality.
The most baffling thing about it is that Joe Rogan was a comedian for most of his professional life yet his show is not funny at all. The one thing I can say in his favour is that he gives his guests unlimited time and space to talk. So many interviewers talk over their guests and try to be the centre of attention I just hate it. But Rogan’s guests don’t interest me with all the kooky stuff they promote, and Rogan himself eats it all up.
I suspect he is the Taylor Swift or Mr Beast of talk shows. If you have no experience with music then Taylor is very accessible and easy to discover. Mr Beast will be on the front page when you visit Youtube if you don’t have an established watch history. I am sure Rogan tops the podcast apps. The platforms promote him because he has an audience and he is always being discussed.
It is the lowest common denominator stuff. You can likely discuss Rogan along with the cricket or free to air reality tv with regular people and be on common ground.
Rogan’s ignorance is comical and a bit concerning how many people hang on his words but he fills a niche that people seem to desire. When they claim to be upset about all the haters they are behaving more or less like Swifties. They absolutely love hanging out with other Swifties and can’t understand why we don’t all agree with them. That isn’t being a victim. That is petulance.
Who’s this Jo Rogan sheila?
Some yank wanker
“I’ve literally seen this happen, it’s like: ‘oh don’t talk to him, he likes Joe Rogan, he’s probably one of these weird alt-right guys’.”
[…]
For Alexander, Rogan’s rise ran counter to the identity politics spilling out university campuses, a yin to yang of a “woke mind virus” that he felt was targeting people like him.
Gee Alexander, you’re not doing a good job of showing you’re not one of those weird alt-right guys.
These fucking little cowards like to hide behind victimhood as if they’re not just shit people deserving of it.
Yeah… he seemed like a kind of person I’ve known but it’s a few snippets from an interview. Maybe there’s a more charitable way to read it, more of a joke.
I listened to a few of his interviews some years back and only really came away with the conclusion that he’s a dumbfuck who’ll get most of his opinions from the last person he talked to.
Don’t forget the money he’s given.
Edgelords with inflated opinions of their intelligence, and morons.
Those two are not mutually exclusive.
I was a fan up until around episode 800ish. The comedy/fitness guests were fun and informative. I eventually found the guests more and more wack so I gave up on the show.
There’s a lot if casual misandry in the media. There is a rejection of the traditional male head of the household gender role but there isn’t a clearly defined replacement that we agree to so right now a lot if younger men have no real masculine ideal to aspire to and guys like Rogan fill that hole as he’s supposedly tough, funny, responsible and a solid bread winner for his family (regardless of whether that is accurate IDK). He gives guys a model to aspire to even if it is controversial.
What I wonder is how we shift away from the caveman ideal that Rogan represents to someone more in the vein of Bob Ross or Fred Rodgers (Mr Rodgers Neighborhood). We would all be better if guys wanted to be Fred Rodgers
There’s a lot if [sic] casual misandry in the media.
Yeah righto little fella
Go watch some sitcoms and try to find a father who is competent. It’s fairly rare. We have a lot of narratives that portray men as less rational/capable parents.
Like I said it’s casual. It’s not on the same level as the misogyny in society but it is there.
That’s actually a really interesting example. Like yeah, you’re kinda right that that sorta portrayal can foster low-level misandrist attitudes, but I’d say that in a society that systemically devalues that sort of work, portraying men as being generally incompetent at child-rearing and household tasks is mostly to their own benefit, because that stereotype implies that unpaid domestic labour is better just left to women. It’s like weaponised incompetence at scale.
I’ve listened to Joe Rogan before because his Daryl Davis interview was interesting as fuck. I can’t think of anything else he’s put out that I care about, though. I also can’t Imagine being insecure about listening to a podcast.
I feel like Tim Heidecker’s parody of rogan says more than this article did https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P6Iyg9fznvM
Linking to an 11 hour video is a bold move
Spoiler
It loops seamlessly every 90 or so minutes
Do you actually feel attacked? I’m not sure I’ve ever seen someone criticised for like being strong and capable
I don’t get it, where is the link between being attacked and being strong and capable?
“middle path of masculinity”, between the “emasculated” and “browbeaten” male of the far left and the Tate-like women haters and “pickup artists” of the far right.
“We want to foster the good side [of masculinity],” he says. “Which is being on the mission, wanting to be strong, being something of a warrior, but also being the good man, the loving husband, the loving partner, the good father”
“There is a vitriol against that idea[…]"
If you ask most people who allegedly want to brow beat men what “good masculinity” is you would probably get stuff like:
- strong and helpful
- patient
- skilled
- protects people
- Loving and attentive
- Takes care of body and mind
- Good in a crisis
This guy is claiming men are attacked for wanting to be strong, loving, a good father, and ‘something of a warrior’
Idk what the last means but I basically only see men attacked for
- treating women as less then men
- using violence to solve problems that could be talked out
- using violence on the vulnerable
Which uh, notably aren’t in his list of reason men are attacked. So I want to ask what men’s opinions are.
"browbeaten” male of the far left
This line really stood out to me. Have they met anyone on the left in their lives?
It’s like they have some imaginary idea of what a left-winger looks and acts like in their minds.
The left doesn’t want you to know this but 100% of leftist women are dommes
I think many are quick to colour all men with the same brush when any man does something bad (murder, domestic violence, etc). This ignores the fact that most men aren’t doing this and are helpless to stop it. It’s not like we’re choosing to let domestic violence to continue. We’re just as powerless as anyone else.
And there’s a real focus on the worst of men’s behaviour, without any appreciation of the good things men do, to balance it out.
All men are flawed, just like all women are flawed (except my Mrs). We’re all a mix of good and bad, trying to do our best.
It’s not like we’re choosing to let domestic violence to continue. We’re just as powerless as anyone else.
I think this is really interesting, who do you think can?
It’s also true that male loneliness is pretty significant, and lonely guys are more prone to developing extreme and hateful views but the only people that can do anything about man to man friendships are other men.
There are some fantastic initiatives like lens sheds that are trying to knit a healthy social structure and almost nobody participates in them.
Men don’t have to have male friends to not be lonely. Any friends will do. I have lots of great female friends.
As far as solving domestic violence, I don’t know how to do that. But I think we can all agree that we want it to end. Probably even the perpetrators of DV want it to end.
Maybe a big part of it is finding those who are most likely to be perpetrators and try to understand them better. And help them better understand themselves.
I do note an interesting difference in your approach to how to handle DV vs how to handle someone stringing a wire across a bike path. It may be a contradiction you wish to reflect on.
You might want to read this book to get a better idea behind the psychology of DV.
What are you doing to prevent DV? (Not a challenge, I’m genuinely curious if you’re part of any efforts)
So if you read that book, or look into any of the research behind DV you will learn that it’s not really a problem women can confront at the source because the psychology behind it is one which fundamentally views women as inferior. In the same way if someone is racist somebody from a group they hate is unlikely to meet with much success trying to change their views (at best probably getting recognition as “one of the good ones”) women talking to men about why we’re actually whole-arse people doesn’t work very well.
Aside from trying in vain to get men to learn literally anything about why DV happens and why they can actually make a massive difference talking to their mates and setting norms for acceptable ideas about women at work/at the gym/at the club etc it’s not really in my means to donate to a shelter or whatever. I do volunteer for the greens around elections.
That said, being a woman in society there’s the sort of basic keeping an eye on things. Making a point to chat with neighbours, hosting drinks, sharing food etc that gives you a bit of a chance to have a network of support for people, victims tend to hide the harm believing themselves to be at fault so there’s not a good chance you’ll actually know. You can call a welfare check on a house if you hear a nasty fight but it’s unlikely to do much.
There’s a difference between prevention and punishment. I believe people who kill their spouse (or attempt to on multiple occasions) should be imprisoned for life.
My opinion is that men who think men are being attacked for their masculinity are misogynists who think that because they speak nicely to their wife/mother/daughter they are nice guys and all the toxic stuff the tolerate and/or do is just boys being boys.
The impression that I’m getting is that some people are angry at not being praised, having people say mean things sometimes, or at the possibility of being passed over because of what rather than who they are.
Which I get it, that shit sucks. But like women are dealing with that too. Idk if men experience like getting catcalled and being like “shit, am I in danger now?”. Do guys feel like you need another man to walk with you home from a train station at night?
It just seems a bit to me like there’s not much empathy here from the blokes complaining. Yes we should all be kinder to each other, and being looked over is awful. On the latter women are looked over all the time and surely broadly making opportunity 50:50 is a fair goal (realistically because women live slightly longer a true unbiased society would see a very slight majority women in major positions). Like look at Parliament and tell me women aren’t held back from power.
And with mean stuff being said like yes that is rude but again women also deal with that and worse. It doesn’t seem like a reason to hold a grudge, it seems like a reason to band together to equalise everything so the fear and suspicion can stop.
When I see people trying to define positive masculinity, they list traits that are actually good traits I look for in female partners, or male friends. This leads me to believe that the complaints about emasculation are confused ones. I know my mostly absent father complained to my mum about emasculation once. Well, step up and be strong and responsible like most single mothers have to do. Too many guys expect to be respected just for being male. Prove it. Be a good person, male or female.
This is what confuses me. I am mostly a lesbian but have dated men a few times. I never resented their traits I would consider manly.
My sisters are married to men and they seem to enjoy the fact that they’re men. They expect their partner to be sensitive, tactful, and mature but that is a basic expectation of every adult and not hard to meet.
My dad is a man, he’s extremely handy and always willing to show us the ropes of some task or help out with his knowledge. That seems like masculinity to me.
I don’t understand what men feel like they’re not allowed to do that is “being a man”. I get some stuff like roided up beauty standards are ridiculous but every human alive deals with impossible celebrity beauty.
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There’s a ton of casual misandry in American media and some are more sensitive to it than others.
I basically only see men attacked for
Hmm maybe this might help (it came out 3 days before the election) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tSw04BwQy4M
Could you just summarise it because a video is sort of an inaccessible format for public text discussion?
which state election? Or do you mean federal 3 years ago?
The video discusses the growing political divide, particularly focusing on how men, especially young men, are shifting towards the right politically.
The narrator critiques the Democratic Party’s efforts to appeal to this demographic, highlighting various missteps and tone-deaf attempts at outreach. Here are the key points:
Gender Divide: The video starts by noting the increasing toxicity in gender discourse, with examples of anti-male sentiments from media and social media.
Political Shift: There’s a discussion on how young men are moving towards the Republican Party, while young women are leaning more towards the Democrats. This shift is particularly notable in recent election data.
Democratic Party’s Struggles: The narrator criticizes the Democratic Party’s last-minute efforts to win over young male voters, such as creating spaces for white men and using Tim Walz as a “secret weapon” to appeal to male voters. These efforts are seen as superficial and ineffective.
Social Media Reactions: The video includes reactions from social media, highlighting the divisive and often dismissive attitudes towards men’s concerns. Some tweets suggest that men need to “be better” or are inherently problematic.
Critique of Pandering: The narrator mocks the Democratic Party’s attempts to pander to men, such as ads featuring Tim Walz doing stereotypically masculine activities. These efforts are seen as insincere and condescending.
Bernie Sanders: The video mentions Bernie Sanders as an example of a candidate who successfully spoke to the demographic the Democrats are now struggling to reach. His focus on working-class issues is highlighted as naturally attractive to men.
Call for Change: The narrator expresses frustration with the Democratic Party’s messaging and calls for a more inclusive and effective approach to win back young men. The video ends with a plea for the party to evaluate what they’re doing wrong and make changes for the betterment of society.
Overall, the video is a critique of the Democratic Party’s strategies and a call for more genuine and effective outreach to young male voters.
This is the influence we get from America flooding in
Basically left wing progressives are inherently anti-male and anti-white male and social media helps amplify and push these beliefs far and wide because left wing progressives and women are supplying them with easy content
Racists Take a DNA Test https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9HlGhVgV3Yw
“MEN ARE USELESS!” - After Dark Edit https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uI1wptoSLaM
5.5 million views jesus
and I had these videos endlessly appear on my youtube homepage for ages because I watched MMA
Combine that with a lot of guys not doing great in life and then they get to see plenty of women being given a hand (admittedly this was a 30 second search, I don’t want to even imagine how far and wide these programs and monetary advantages that are being given to women extend to):
https://www.vic.gov.au/womens-board-leadership-program
In recent years, Victoria has seen great progress in the representation of women on boards, with women now making up 54% of all public board positions in 2023
So when women already make up a majority of board positions and they still get given more advantages regardless:
The Victorian Government is sponsoring 50 women
The 2023 Diploma of Governance scholarship will provide governance training and networking for all women to advance their board careers in the not-for-profit sector.
And yeah, you’re going to breed resentment when men apply and get denied and then look up why
Anyway I gotta stop procrastinating on me studies so not going to put much effort in after this post
Basically left wing progressives are inherently anti-male and anti-white male and social media helps amplify and push these beliefs far and wide because left wing progressives and women are supplying them with easy content
You’re describing the liberal wing of the U.S. Democratic Party. A “left-wing progressive” would be someone like Bernie Sanders.
Have a look at this:
Nice one for answering naeva’s question. The part with women’s scholarships is something that does hurt a lot of blokes as they have to work harder for the same opportunity.
Without having clicked the link, I assumed the US election last year.
I hate Joe Rogan, but occasionally he has interesting guests on, and I’m forced to tolerate him for a bit.
I am curious if you have any episodes you would recommend? I have seen the worst. I wonder what the good ones are and would be interested to better understand the appeal.
I tend to go for very dry and academic podcasts. We’re not so different, maintenance phase, when diplomacy fails, Australia in the world, tech wont save us etc.
Not what you asked for but I assume you already listen to Stuff You Should Know? Thats a super easy listening general science & culture podcast for background listening while working or traffic.
I liked the Johann Hari interview
I’m not the person you asked, but his 2019 Bernie Sanders interview was really good.
Thank you
The 2016 election night episode entitled something like “The End of the World” was great and IMO signals the shift in the show. He’s at the Comedy Store or The Icehouse (LA comedy clubs) and there are a dozen comics on stage commenting as other comics drop in and out.
I’ve listened somewhere between 500 to 1000 episodes from him. I wouldn’t exactly call myself a fan but it’s just one of the shows I’ve subscribed to on my podcast app and when ever he has a quest on who sounds interesting I download the episode and listen to it while working. I don’t agree with him on everything but that applies to all the other podcasters I listen to as well. Joe has his flaws but generally I find him smart, nice, honest and a reasonable person. If one bases their opinion about him on the articles and YouTube clips of him then I can’t really blame them for having a skewed perspective but personally, as someone who has listened thru the entire 3 hour episode and knows the full context, I’m not very convinced by most of the accusations made of him. One simply couldn’t hide their “true personality” while putting out tens of thousands if hours of unscripted discussions online. I feel pretty confident in saying that I know Joe about as well as you can know someone without ever having met them.
I can’t get by the sound of his voice, it’s irritating
