Quite possibly the best answer to the Putin talking point (and therefore, Trump’s talking point) that he’s a dictator.
A dictator would never offer to step down. I hope the people see it for what it is. We all know Putin will be unfazed and continue anyway.
A dictator would never offer to step down.
He would if the terms he demanded for it were those that both parties of the conflict had already ruled out.
Trump’s team has acknowledged NATO is not viable and Russia categorically will not accept Ukraine in NATO. This conflict started over eastward NATO expansion, one of the primary, if not the most primary goals of Russia in their fight is to stop Ukraine from becoming part of NATO and stationing western weapons/troops there near them.
Russia is winning and the support of the US is waning. They are not going to accept having spent all that treasure and blood and taken all these sanctions and in the end not get their primary goal just to get Zelensky to step down for another person who hates Russia.
I think I would have liked to live in the world you’ve constructed in that head of yours. Must be filled with rainbows and butterflies
I hope the people see it for what it is.
A loser petulantly asking for something he isn’t going to get, in exchange for something that’s going to happen any way.
It’s not going to happen anyway, Ukraine can’t join NATO while they’re a Russian forces in the country, as that immediately triggers article 5 which is obviously not something NATO want to happen.
Like Hitler won his war right?
I’m once again begging liberals to learn about any war other than WW2
Or learn about that war in the first place. They think Michael Bay’s Pearl Harbor was a documentary.
I assume you’re comparing Putin to Hitler? So, how would WWII have gone if the US stopped fighting Hitler?
Much better. The US wouldn’t have had time to reward every single Nazi they could find with a job.
The same way it did except for the division of Europe in halves.
So you’re saying the USSR would have subsumed all of Europe? I could see that.
Do you think the military capabilities of Europe are up to fighting off Russia without the US? I don’t see it.
The Ukraine war is basically over at this point. Zelenskyy has zero negotiating power.
Russia won’t do anything.
There’s a massive wall of article 5. Ukraine in NATO was a red line. We tested the waters, the Ukrainians paid for it. It’s easy to fuck around and find out when it’s not your children who get sent to the frontlines. All because Shell got scammed into investing in shale reserves that never existed. Lol, now we’re left holding the bag, the Ucranians have lost an entire generation of young men and the US is now the 4th reich. I’m more worried about jingoism from the yanks than Russia doing anything. They could barely penetrate a Ukraine with its pants down. (pun not intended)
Oh I didn’t mean to imply Russia is going to do anything - I mean Europe doesn’t have the capabilities to fight a proxy war in Ukraine. If the US is dropping out then the war is over, there was never anything else keeping the war going.
He’s not getting peace, ever? Or what are you insinuating?
He’s implying that he will lose power anyway and is trying to use that as a bargaining chip by offering to step down. (I don’t agree, I’m just interpreting)
He’s not getting NATO membership and he is already on his way out as soon as the US decides so, surely you see that?
The man can get his country into NATO, I’d say he has earned his retirement.
Article with no aggressive paywalls
Is NATO membership still a valid goal to pursue?
“Valid” as in feasible? No. The war was started to keep Ukraine out of NATO, and Ukraine wasn’t fully backed by NATO in the war because it isn’t willing to go to war with Russia just for Ukraine.
I’m not an expert, but have read a decent amount on this. Others may have more and better info.
With that said, even if an Article 5 invocation won’t bring the US into your fight, it provides a hefty infrastructure of value to countries in it. From basing, to logistics, to intelligence, to aid, it is valuable. Now the politics of it are complicated and the US can hinder some of that value, but it still means that in Europe if Russia provides an Article 5 reason, other countries in NATO can choose to help in various forms. That’s not nothing. It’s also faster and less arduous then negotiating individual defense treaties with neighbors and others.
So yes, overall probably still worth it. Even if just as an entree into other alliances.
i think the thread starter question is more about if nato is even about to continue existing
From what I’m seeing out of Germany, NATO isn’t going anywhere. The US might not be a continuing part of it.
Also there’s still an off chance China might play a part in Ukraine. They have Putin by the short and curlies, and could offer a better deal than the US for mineral rights. It might hinge on if Trump pisses off Xi with this trade war crap, or gets in the way of him taking Taiwan.
Sure, in the way The Spiders From Mars didn’t go anywhere after Bowie fucked off.
Until the Russian government gives up on imperial conquest of other nations, yes.
