• TwilitSky
    link
    fedilink
    English
    arrow-up
    2
    ·
    8 hours ago

    I remember a time when zionist was not a label people wanted to wear because of the extreme views.

  • Possibly linux@lemmy.zip
    link
    fedilink
    English
    arrow-up
    2
    arrow-down
    2
    ·
    7 hours ago

    Calling him the leader of Zionism is quite a stretch. I don’t think anyone really used that word until the last few years.

    This article romanticizes the anti Israel political view. I’m not exactly a big fan of Israel or the mass killings they have become known for but we also need to be mindful to not fall into the trap of confirmation bias.

    • Pinto, the Bean
      link
      fedilink
      English
      arrow-up
      2
      ·
      22 minutes ago

      Calling him the leader of Zionism is quite a stretch. I don’t think anyone really used that word until the last few years.

      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zionism

      Theodor Herzl was the founder of the modern Zionist movement. In his 1896 pamphlet Der Judenstaat, he envisioned the founding of a future independent Jewish state during the 20th century.

      By the beginning of the 20th century, the Zionist movement, now led by Theodor Herzl, associated this national revival with Palestine, then under Ottoman rule.[8][9] The arrival of Zionist settlers to Palestine during this period is widely seen as the start of the Israeli–Palestinian conflict.[10][11][12] The Zionist claim to Palestine was based on the notion that the Jews’ historical right to the land outweighed that of the Arabs.[13]

  • PumpkinSkink
    link
    fedilink
    English
    arrow-up
    2
    ·
    12 hours ago

    If you haven’t yet, you should absolutely read “The Question of Palestine” by Edward Said. Its like 200 pages and he covers Hertzl, and a bunch of other early zionists, as well as prominent post-founding zionists like Ben Gurion. They honestly just say the quiet part out loud shamelessly. It’s completely indefensible if you read it. The only reason that we can even have “debate” about the nature of the state of Israel is because your average person “debating” Israel is totally ignorant of the history.

    “after the [Second World| war the question of the land of Israel and the question of the Jews would be raised beyond the framework of “development”; amongst ourselves. it must be clear that there is no room for hoth peoples inthis country. No “development” will bring us closer to our aim. to be an independent people in this small country. If the Arabs leave the country, it will be broad and wide-open for us. And if the Arabs stay, the country will remain narrow and miserable. When the War is over and the English have won, and when the judges sit on the throne of Law, our people must bring their petitions and their claim before them; and the only solution is Eretz Israel, or at least Western Eretz Israel, without Arabs. There is no room for compromise on this point! The Zionist enterprise so far, in terms of preparing the ground and paving the way for the creation of the Hebrew State in the land of Israel, has been fine and good in its own time, and could do with ‘‘land-buying ’— but this will not bring about the State of Israel; that must come all at once, in the manner of a Salvation (this is the secret of the Messianic idea); and there is no way besides transferring the Arabs from here to the neighboring countries, to transfer them all: except maybe for Bethlehem, Nazareth and Old Jerusalem, we must not leave a single village, not a single tribe. And the transfer must be directed to Iraq, to Syria, and even to Transjordan. For that purpose we’ll find money, and a lot of money. And only with such a transfer will the country be able to absorb millions of our brothers, and the Jewish question shall be solved, once and for all. There is no other way out. [Emphases added]" ~Joesph Weitz

    “There are 40% non-Jews in the areas allocated to the Jewish state. This composition is not a solid basis for a Jewish state. And we have to face this new reality with all its severity and distinctness. Such a demographic balance questions our ability to maintain Jewish sovereignty… Only a state with at least 80% Jews is a viable and stable state.” ~David Ben Gurion

  • fartographer
    link
    fedilink
    English
    arrow-up
    1
    ·
    12 hours ago

    For my 10th grade year at Jewish Sunday school, we had to write a long essay about a Jewish icon. I was gonna write about Theodore Herzl and Zionism, until I learned what Zionism meant from a modern and political standpoint. Then, I became disgusted.

    Instead, I wrote about why backlash from the Jewish community towards Sacha Baron Cohen was an overreaction since he provided a fresh representation of Judaism in the media. Guess I was wrong…

  • starlinguk
    link
    fedilink
    English
    arrow-up
    18
    arrow-down
    7
    ·
    24 hours ago

    From his book, Der Judenstaat:

    “Und fügt es sich, daß auch Andersgläubige, Andersnationale unter uns wohnen, so werden wir ihnen einen ehrenvollen Schutz und die Rechtsgleichheit gewähren.”

    “And should it happen that people of other faiths and other nationalities live amongst us, we shall grant them honourable protection and equal rights.”

    Looks like misinformation, OP.

    • mrdown
      link
      fedilink
      English
      arrow-up
      2
      ·
      7 hours ago

      Herzl’s Diary, 12 June 1895

      The property owners will come over to our side. According to my conception, the majority of the local population will have to be transferred elsewhere.

      We shall try to spirit the penniless population across the border by procuring employment for it in the transit countries, while denying it any employment in our own country.

      Both the process of expropriation and the removal of the poor must be carried out discreetly and circumspectly

    • Microw@piefed.zip
      link
      fedilink
      English
      arrow-up
      5
      ·
      22 hours ago

      The quote from his diary certainly is genuine, and it relates to what Herzl calls the “taking of the land” (Landnahme, obviously a reference to the biblical episode of the Israelites taking over Canaan). As is visible here in the german original text, Herzl talks about winning over the local land-owning population by luring away “the poors”.

      IyMyy1B6KTvNPIK.jpg

  • gedaliyah
    link
    fedilink
    English
    arrow-up
    16
    arrow-down
    7
    ·
    1 day ago

    This is abject nonsense bordering on misinformation. Herzl quite famously envisioned a future state in which Jews, Arabs, and others lived in harmony and mutual benefit.

    Herzl is also not the founder of Zionism, a 3000 year old concept, but of the particular European branch of Modern Political Zionism.

    • mrdown
      link
      fedilink
      English
      arrow-up
      5
      ·
      11 hours ago

      Nice try

      Herzl’s Diary, 12 June 1895

      The property owners will come over to our side. According to my conception, the majority of the local population will have to be transferred elsewhere.

      We shall try to spirit the penniless population across the border by procuring employment for it in the transit countries, while denying it any employment in our own country.

      Both the process of expropriation and the removal of the poor must be carried out discreetly and circumspectly

    • starlinguk
      link
      fedilink
      English
      arrow-up
      3
      ·
      24 hours ago

      He is the main founder of Zionism. At the time, the vast majority of jews thought he wasn’t right in the head.

      • gedaliyah
        link
        fedilink
        English
        arrow-up
        4
        arrow-down
        7
        ·
        24 hours ago

        Zion is mentioned 152 times in the Hebrew Bible, a 3000 year old book. Unless you are also suggesting he is a time traveler?

        It’s not a new idea. Read what I wrote above.

        You’re right that many people were skeptical of his utopian view of multicultural harmony.

        • mrdown
          link
          fedilink
          English
          arrow-up
          3
          ·
          11 hours ago

          It is like saying islamist is very old concept because the word islam existed way before

  • AnchoriteMagus
    link
    fedilink
    English
    arrow-up
    33
    arrow-down
    2
    ·
    1 day ago

    The map of “Greater Israel” as laid out by Theodor Hertzl.

    Looks a lot like a list of all the countries Israel has been picking a fight with recently, huh?

    I wonder why??

    • Lodespawn@aussie.zone
      link
      fedilink
      English
      arrow-up
      17
      arrow-down
      1
      ·
      1 day ago

      I love the arbitrarily straight line through Kuwait and Saudi. It looks like they were real keen to follow the Euphrates but then just kind of gave up just before the gulf, claimed a third of Kuwait and then just drew a line straight to the red sea and and arbitrary part of Egypt …

      • FinjaminPoach
        link
        fedilink
        English
        arrow-up
        15
        arrow-down
        2
        ·
        1 day ago

        Looks to me like they’re juet vaguely aiming for the “greener” parts of Saudi Arabia, where there happen to be 3 national parks, and avoiding the desert-only bits which they can’t be bothered trying to manage (see: Dune)

        There is something very satisfying to me about the borders but i think that’s just because they chose rivers as boundaries AND added in that sharp geometric line

    • gedaliyah
      link
      fedilink
      English
      arrow-up
      7
      arrow-down
      2
      ·
      1 day ago

      Nope. This map, according to the article it comes from, is constructed (incorrectly) based on a biblical reference (Gen 15:18). Herzl references it in his diary as part of a conversation brought up by someone else.

      Herzl himself famously refused to define such borders.

  • quick_snail@feddit.nl
    link
    fedilink
    English
    arrow-up
    2
    ·
    18 hours ago

    Idk about that, but Herzl did say that antisemites in Europe would be one of the strongest allies of Zionism

  • Mugita Sokio@lemmy.today
    link
    fedilink
    English
    arrow-up
    0
    arrow-down
    1
    ·
    13 hours ago

    Herzl was a Jesuit yes man who happened to be a Khazar. I knew he was all for that, but I didn’t know it was 7 years before he founded Political Zionism.

  • itisileclerk
    link
    fedilink
    English
    arrow-up
    6
    arrow-down
    2
    ·
    24 hours ago

    Zionism is the first nationalist doctrine, evil in its essence, the inspiration for all nationalist doctrines including Nazism. It is sad that some try to portray Zionism as a benign ideology. An evil that must be thrown into the same bin as Nazism, fascism and religious fanaticism.

  • GodlessCommie
    link
    fedilink
    English
    arrow-up
    11
    arrow-down
    4
    ·
    1 day ago

    It answers the question which came first, the Zionist or the Nazi?

  • FinjaminPoach
    link
    fedilink
    English
    arrow-up
    3
    ·
    1 day ago

    Looks like Oscar Isaacs in a particularly villainous role - the greater the beard length-short hair ratio the longer the beard, and the shorter and rounder the hair is, the more villainous his character will be. Don’t know if ya’ll have noticed that or not.

    examples