Communists? Nah, not a problem. I mean I’m a Star Trek fan, and while it’s not played up that much the Federation is a post-scarcity socialist-adjacent society. I’m all for everyone having their basic needs met without condition or obligation, and money being obsolete.
Tankies though can fuck right off. North Korea is not a bastion of democracy. China is not more free than the US. This is not a comparison even worth entertaining.
Exactly, the tankies make me not want to talk about/positively about communist theory. I’ve always aligned more with socialist ideas but wasn’t opposed to the idea of communism. The tankies make me just cringe when someone brings up communism now. It’s like all the edgelords who have no real world experiences have gather together under the tanky flag.
Now that’s patently unfair. Half of them became full conservative fascists instead.
Star Trek is fully automatic gay space communism.
It’s not socialist adjacent.
Counterpoint: Riker.
Look, I know the Federation doesn’t have money, but they probably brought it back just to charge Riker for all the extra cleanup required every time he visited the holodeck.
Quark’s Holosuites were never clean again after Riker came aboard DS9.
I don’t think anyone has a problem with post scarcity utopian idealism, we just aren’t at the post scarcity part yet
Aye I wish belived that capitalism created a fair society. Seems more comfy.
In my experience, the point of leftism is to bring more power to the average citizen. What about that do you disagree with?
The meme doesn’t say “leftism”.
Communism =/= leftism. It’s an extreme form of socialism.
My biggest problem isn’t even the communist ideals. Have your ideas, that’s fine. I don’t care.
My problem is the amount of people coming into post comments attacking American Imperialism® on posts that aren’t even related to communist ideals or, sometimes, that don’t even mention America. It gets tiring reading how much America sucks when that’s not even the point of the post.
There are many types of communism. Most left leaning ideologies can be described in terms of communism. As Westerners, the further you live from Eastern Europe the more miseducated we tend to be about the subject.
Communism is leftist, and often conservatives and some liberals will call anything left of center “communist” so it’s well within reason for the OC to be wary of your rhetoric.
Also disliking imperalism isn’t only a communist thing, and I have to wonder what kinds of posts you’re looking at that people bring up American imperialism if it’s not relevant. I’m subscribed to a lot of political communities on Lemmy and don’t see the topic of imperialism being brought up that often.
This kind of false reduces the diversity economic ideologies into basically just “left” vs “right”. Even amongst leftist ideologies, there’s communism, democratic socialism, syndicalism, market socialism, and probably a bunch more.
The most common way to categorize economic ideologies I’ve seen is along the lines of who owns which means of production: land (including natural resources), labor, and capital.
- Socialists generally want social ownership of land and capital, and sometimes labor (depends on which socialist you ask).
- Capitalists generally want private ownership of land, labor, and capital.
- Georgists (like myself) want social ownership of land, but private ownership of labor and capital.
But even those don’t reveal the complexity of how to implement social ownership of thing, or degrees of ownership. Income taxes, for instance, are a form of partial social ownership of labor, something both capitalists and many socialists on paper oppose.
- Market socialists want a market economy but with worker-owned coops.
- State socialists want direct state ownership.
- Georgists want social ownership of land through hefty land value, externality, and severance taxes.
But even that ignores the why of the various ideologies and their proposed policies.
- Syndicalists want to achieve greater equity through unions everywhere and in every industry because they believe the power of collective bargaining will level the negotiating power between employer and employees
- Market socialists want a market economy full of worker-owned coops because they see markets as an incredibly powerful tool, and because they see worker-owned coops as a very robust and equitable form of enterprise within a market economy.
- Georgists want to tax land and externalities and finite natural resources (as well as lower barriers to entry for free enterprise) because we believe rent-seeking and monopolism to be the source of rampant inequality, and that a truly fair and competitive market without market failure is the best engine for shared prosperity
- Genuine capitalists think the inequality is simply the unavoidable price to pay for all the prosperity, and that inequality itself is a motivator to be productive
And of course not all people hold their economic ideologies for noble reasons. Plenty of (if not most) self-described capitalists hold those beliefs either out of greed (because they’re greedy rent-seekers whose land/externalities/natural resource rents ought be taxed away imo) or complacency (they don’t like upsetting the status quo). There are also tankies who believe in communism not because they truly want a fair and equitable society that respects human rights but because they’re just a fascist reactionary who likes to feel morally superior to others. I’m sure there are also some market socialists or Georgists or syndicalists as well who hold their beliefs for non-noble reasons.
But anyhoo, all that to say there’s a tremendous complexity to economic ideology, and I think it’s best to not frame everything as simple left vs right, black vs white, us vs them.
Not op, but I’d guess it’s probably the part where you start murdering people and removing their basic freedoms.
That’s also around the time someone walks up with a Fascism stencil and sprays it over your communism label.
Sorry, I think I probably shouldn’t read your link since it’s currently blocked by the communist government in the country where I’m living.
You’re right. You’re not me.
Ah sorry, thought you might be concerned about actual humans and their real problems
*tankies
stfu liberal
Excellent rebuttal! Thank you for adhering to the communist ways and letting libs live for free in your head.
Nicely done
I needed a rebuttal for this? I thought just writing something is enough. I have more important things to do in life. I can’t write against all liberal bullshit, I wouldn’t get happy anymore.
You type a lot for someone with nothing to say.
It’s like liberal ideology.
An ideology that can type? Intriguing!
Yeah, I’m also wondering why liberals can type. I thought it’s some kind of freedom to be uneducated.
I don’t mind seeing communist content, it’s better than the shit that I was seeing on Reddit’s front page before I left it. At least communists aren’t spewing hatred against people based on their skin colour, sexual orientation, gender identity, or other things that people can’t control.
Although the centrists and leftists still hate each other, Lemmy is just a nicer place in general due to the lack of far-right horse shit.
Idk, getting told I should get hit by a truck and nuked into dust because of the country I happened to be born in is kinda sus.
Except for the tankies, who are all for authoritarian regimes under a false label of “communism.”
I dont have a problem with commies bc they are people that want good but we just disagree on how it should be achieved. Tankies on the other hand are basically nazis but they support stalin and not hitler.
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No. We are all affected by politics, and we all take part of it even if we think we don’t. We just gotta stay vigilant against the bigoted type, like Nazis and Tankies
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Socies are cool but tankies are absolutely not
Lemmy would be great if people would just stop whinging all the time and just blocked communities they didn’t like. Jesus.
Once instance based blocking is made available to users this will be a non issue
I’m always surprised by people complaining about seeing communities they don’t want to see. Does everyone really browse “all”?! Why don’t people just browse “subscribed” and only subscribe to communities they like?
Community search function sucks, so browsing all is really the only viable solution to find new communities.
Also often you can find communities you didn’t even think to search for in all, which is probably the most important function on lemmy as long as it lacks so many of the niche communities which thrived on reddit.
Doesn’t help when they comment on posts I make in general community.
Lemmy is great because of the commies
At least it’s not Nazis, although tankies are every bit as bad.
Nazis
Tankies
They’re the same picture.
Lol, yeah but knowing the difference is important.
While tankie ideology is heavily flawed, they aren’t bigots. while many deny or unknowingly support genocide, at least it isn’t out of a hatred for the victims
It’s authoritarianism either way you slice it.
I hear more complaining about commies/tankies than I actually see posts from them
You ought to consider yourself lucky.
I’m a socialist. This is just some more red scare bullshit. Just because I’m socialist doesn’t mean I’m a tankie licking Russia’s and China’s boots. I’m an EU citizen, full on EU supporter, and at the same time I can be a socialist.
> Joins federated network
> Complains that it’s full of people who don’t like hierarchy
Might as well complain about the open source software people while you’re at it
It’s pretty wild people come to Lemmy and complain about this.
I’m grateful Lemmy is filled with commies (not the tankie ones but meh).
Neolibs infect everywhere else.
this is how I feel about the liberals to be honest, but that’s the beauty of lemmy: we can have our instance to talk about communism, and you can have your instance to talk about how much you hate communism.
Lol. 90% of hexbear posts are about liberals.
Libs live rent free in your heads, don’t lie to us 😏
“I know we’re the dominant group in everyday society, and most regular people agree with us, which means most people you must interact with on the daily are probably liberal, but we live rent free in your head you see, and it totally doesn’t have anything to do with us shoving our bullshit down your throats every day in your daily life. It’s because you’re pathetic!”
Sure, Jan. Sure.
I just love that we can sit here in the fediverse and talk about it without one or the other getting banned. I guess I’m old school first amendment.
You have been banned from 𝕏
The problem isn’t communism per se, but communism forcibly imposed.
More precisely, the problem is that communism is the superior system to the degree that it’s egalitarian - that it eliminates the ruling class and instead treats all citizens equally - and the forcible imposition of communism immediately destroys that, since it presumes that those carrying out the forcible imposition rightfully possess the authority to do so, and thereby simply establishes them as a new ruling class.
Communism should be the goal, but in order to actually fulfill its potential, it MUST be voluntarily adopted by the people rather than forcibly imposed.
This but also humans are inherently greedy, easy to corrupt, and prone to power hungry authoritarianism, so no system we create to govern ourselves has ever, or will ever, be fair or just.
I’m not sure how to implement it, but I’d like to see a qualified lottery-based election in which power is briefly thrust upon competent citizens selected at random. Because you’re 100% right that positions of power attract greed and corruption. I think that the best people to put in power are the people who understand the responsibility to the point that they don’t want it, and if they’re only in power for a very brief time then it shouldn’t be very corrupting or special.
Imagine jury duty but for political office, complete with a limited voir dire function to weed out people who are grossly unfit. That’s the closest to fair and just that I can think of. It’s just hard to get there without already having somebody in charge who doesn’t really want to be in charge lol.
I think Lemmy exists solely because of communists. Like one literally scripted it. So…
