Michael Parenti, Blackshirts and Reds: Rational Fascism and the Overthrow of Communism:
The pure (libertarian) socialists’ ideological anticipations remain untainted by existing practice. They do not explain how the manifold functions of a revolutionary society would be organized, how external attack and internal sabotage would be thwarted, how bureaucracy would be avoided, scarce resources allocated, policy differences settled, priorities set, and production and distribution conducted. Instead, they offer vague statements about how the workers themselves will directly own and control the means of production and will arrive at their own solutions through creative struggle. No surprise then that the pure socialists support every revolution except the ones that succeed.
For the still meme confused: Survivorship bias
The country with over 20% of the world’s prison population and a highly militarised police force that routinely carries out extrajudicial killings of ethnic minorities is not ever described as “authoritarian”. Somehow.
At least they managed to become the 24th-least corrupt country…by legalizing all but the most blatantly declared bribes.
Having military bases all around the world is not authoritharian somehow either.
The US runs a system of 40+ slave labor camps, and have over 30k ppl in immigrant prison camps most of whom haven’t committed a crime, but it’s not authoritarian!!!
Yeah, that’s how bad it is in actual authoritarian countries . . .
deleted by creator
Gotta love the whataboutism that pops up any time communism is questioned.
Whataboutism is itself a thought-terminating cliché.
From a logical and argumentative point of view it is considered a variant of the tu-quoque pattern (Latin ‘you too’, term for a counter-accusation), which is a subtype of the ad-hominem argument.
Yes. I’m saying what this article is essentially saying. I’m pointing out the whataboutism. Comment OP isn’t countering the accusations against communism, they are saying well what about America bad.
“Whataboutism or whataboutery (as in “what about…?”) denotes in a pejorative sense a procedure in which a critical question or argument is not answered or discussed, but retorted with a critical counter-question which expresses a counter-accusation”
I think what they were trying to do was deconstruct what you mean by “authoritarian.” What is an authoritarian country? How can we answer if the West is holding AES (Actually Existing Socialist) countries to a double standard if we can’t even define it?
Authoritarian means that they limit what millionaires and billionaires can get away with.
Instead of saying whataboutism, it would be more constructive to say what you think that particular government is doing wrong and what they can do alternatively to accomplish their goal more ethically.
If your own government is doing the same thing, perhaps you should do something about it, because you have more agency to change your own government than some government of another country.
“Muh whata-burger-izuhm!”
I want a Whataburger, but the closest one is like 1500 miles away
Elegant
The Parenti quote itself tackles the “criticism”
We can start regurgitating facts about AES at you if you like. Would you like to start on the Holodomor or Xinjiang lmao
The quote
In the United States, for over a hundred years, the ruling interests tirelessly propagated anticommunism among the populace, until it became more like a religious orthodoxy than a political analysis. During the Cold War, the anticommunist ideological framework could transform any data about existing communist societies into hostile evidence. If the Soviets refused to negotiate a point, they were intransigent and belligerent; if they appeared willing to make concessions, this was but a skillful ploy to put us off our guard. By opposing arms limitations, they would have demonstrated their aggressive intent; but when in fact they supported most armament treaties, it was because they were mendacious and manipulative. If the churches in the USSR were empty, this demonstrated that religion was suppressed; but if the churches were full, this meant the people were rejecting the regime’s atheistic ideology. If the workers went on strike (as happened on infrequent occasions), this was evidence of their alienation from the collectivist system; if they didn’t go on strike, this was because they were intimidated and lacked freedom. A scarcity of consumer goods demonstrated the failure of the economic system; an improvement in consumer supplies meant only that the leaders were attempting to placate a restive population and so maintain a firmer hold over them. If communists in the United States played an important role struggling for the rights of workers, the poor, African-Americans, women, and others, this was only their guileful way of gathering support among disfranchised groups and gaining power for themselves. How one gained power by fighting for the rights of powerless groups was never explained. What we are dealing with is a nonfalsifiable orthodoxy, so assiduously marketed by the ruling interests that it affected people across the entire political spectrum.
– Michael Parenti, Blackshirts And Reds
I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please contact the admins of this instance if you have any questions or concerns.
Comment OP isn’t countering the accusations against communism, they are saying well what about America bad.
I’m literally countering the accusations by saying they’re nonsense and that there’s no such thing as “Authoritarian”.
No such thing as Authoritarian? As in it doesn’t exist anywhere? Lol
this bit extends to western marxism too
why are people downvoting this?
Perhaps because they take exception to characterizing all of the Actually Existing Socialisms as “authoritarian” in the first place, and I’d agree with them. It leans into “horseshoe theory” and the anticommunist Western Left’s conceptualization of “totalitarianism.”
perhaps they think you can vote imperialism away
Because they’re brats with no ability to self reflect and be realistic
deleted by creator
They address this consistently and in their original texts. They start authoritarian to ensure a smooth transition as capitalism can take advantage of smaller communes. Once everyone is converted they then decentralize. Trust me bro, it’ll work this time. /S
What is that image?
See the wiki page I linked to: Survivorship bias
the TLDR version; in WWII the Americans would look at bombers that returned to base after doing flight missions, and decided based on their damage where to add armour to future bombers. I.E. they looked at surviving planes to decide how to better protect planes, instead of looking at crashed ones.
Bro please lets try communism one more time bro please I promise it will be different this time bro no I wont camp all lgbtq and genocide an entire ethnic minority bro I’ve changed
Are you talking about the US there? Or 1930 Germany maybe? Or about any western country in early 20th century?
Erm pushes up glasses that wasn’t real communism.
I mean, maybe we can do it better next time. We know more than ever what not to do.
Great ideology when you have to be specifically taught to not systematically murder homosexuals and ethnic minorities. Reminds me of this other ideology what’s it called?
Christianity? Oh wait, they’re not taught against but rather towards hate and murder of homosexuals and minorities.
As an example sure, but that wasn’t quite the thing I was referring to mate
lol, obviously it was the whole “every internet argument will come down to nazis if it goes on long enough bit”.
Just also pointing out that humans generally tend towards hatred and violence of any kind of “other” under most forms of civilization / community.
It’s just that fascists like nazis and commies tend to do it more often than normal people
Ackshually there is a more peaceful communism that will totally work once everyone universally adopts it and never changes their mind or exploits its multiple inherent flaws.
Two words: Human factor.
