If you haven’t heard the news, Reddit is making some drastic, user-hostile changes. This is essentially the final stage of any ad-supported and VC-funded platform’s inevitable march towards enshittification.
I really love the /r/rust community. As a community manager it’s my main portal into the latest happenings of the Rust ecosystem from a high-level point of view primarily focused on project updates rather than technical discourse. This is the only Reddit community I engage directly with; my daily fix of the Reddit frontpage happens strictly via login-less browsing on Apollo, which will soon come to an abrupt end.
This moment in time presents a unique opportunity for this space to claim its independence as a wholly community-owned operation. If the moderators and other stakeholders of /r/rust are already discussing possible next moves somewhere, please point other willing contributors like myself in the right direction.
I’m ready to tag along with any post-Reddit initiative set forth by the community leaders of this sub-reddit. Meanwhile, I’ve started mobilizing willing stakeholders from the fediverse, which I believe to be the path forward for a viable Reddit alternative.
Soft-forking Lemmy
Lemmy as an organisation has issues. But the Lemmy software is a fully functional alternative to Reddit that runs on top of the open ActivityPub protocol, and it’s written in Rust.
Discourse, the software which the Rust Users/Internals forum runs on also supports basic ActivityPub federation now, so the Rust Users forum could actually federate with one or more Lemmy-powered instances. As such, this wouldn’t just be a replacement to Reddit, it would be a significant improvement, bringing more cohesion to the Rust community
Given Lemmy’s controversial culture, I think it’s safest to approach it with a soft-fork mindset. But the degree to which any divergence will actually happen in the code comes down to how amenable the Lemmy team is to upstream changes. I’d love for this to be an exercise in building bridges rather than moats. I know the Lemmy devs occasionally peruse this space, so please feel free to reach out to me.
Here’s what’s happening:
- The author of Kitsune is attempting to run Lemmy on Shuttle, which in turn have expressed interest in supporting this alt-Reddit initiative.
- We’re also looking into OIDC/OAuth for Lemmy, which would allow people to log in with their Reddit/GitHub accounts. If anyone would like to take this on, let us know!
- Hachyderm is starting to evaluate Lemmy hosting next week. I personally think they could provide an excellent default home for a renewed /r/rust, as they are already a heavily Rust-leaning community of practitioners.
To facilitate this mobilization, I’ve set up a temporary Discord server:
I’ll gladly replace this with e.g. a dedicated channel on the Rust community discord. One big upside of having our own server is that we can bridge it to a self-hosted instance of Revolt, which we’ll do in the next few days.
Lemme know if this resonates with you!
This is essentially the final stage of any ad-supported and VC-funded platform’s inevitable march towards enshittification.
Nope, I think the enshittification started well before since the mid 2010s, with the new design and the slew of increasingly user-hostile changes that started rolling ever since. But now with the public trading attempt and VC capital drying up everywhere it seems that all the big tech corps are slamming the gas on the enshittification machine.
Either way as a budding Rustacean I’m all for migrating to Lemmy. It means future proofing the community thanks to fediverse capabilities.
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At least for me it seems like a good idea. I do not necessarily agree with Lemmy devs politically speaking, but at least they had the decency to make it a federated platform and to not maliciously concentrate people only to their instances. Participating from other instances is mostly hassle-free anyways. We can be civil here.
Honestly, especially considering that any instance could go down the second the owner doesn’t pay the bills anymore, any new party that wants to guarantee uptime and content will host their own instance anyways. A soft fork isn’t that much extra than setting up your own instance, by the looks of it.
Why would we need to fork the software? It’s AGPL-licensed. Code changes and related discussions are public. And for now there’s no signs of the maintainers pushing their political opinions in the software itself, they just do that on their own instances (and it’s not like they’re hiding that, I mean their choice of TLD is a political statement in itself, do people think “ml” stands for “markup language” or something?).
Until they start messing with the code (which is something that is not going to go unnoticed), there’s absolutely no reason to fragment development efforts, that would just be counterproductive.
What’s ml supposed to refer to? I tried looking it up but didn’t find anything related to your message.
Marxist-Leninist. Which is basically Stalinist era USSR ideology. Overzealous communists that worship the USSR and the CCP. Usually they actually have pretty good (as in informed) takes on most things. Except for most modern things related to China and Russia, imo.
Regular Marxists are usually better in general tho…
In any case, I’m not either (more of an Anarchist but tbh who cares about these dumb little labels lol), but I think it’s silly to want to distance oneself from “tankies” while drowning in neolib propaganda everywhere else lmao
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Wow, didn’t know the people making Lemmy were that bad and deny genocides. But I also don’t have time to read and understand all the old posts, and I have no idea who the people are who are talking abotu this, so it is incredibly hard to say if it is trustworthy or not. Would be interesting to get a statement from the lemmy developers today about this, to see what they think about the uighur thing and north korea today.
I feel like it’s completely overblown and it’s just silly. Why can’t we let these people have opinions different from our own?
It’s like we are looking for something to fight about, instead of using the tech because it’s actually really valuable.
Divide and conquer… Every single time.
You’ve pretty much described social media in general right now. “If you don’t agree with me then you are the enemy and I will silence you!” There are no “difference of opinions” because it’s easier for people to think in terms of black and white. Now there are limits. Don’t promote hate and violence. Your words have power.
Opinion is one thing, spreading propaganda from terrorist states like China or North Korea is another.
“Opinions that are unacceptable to you” still count as opinions, by definition.
Also nobody is forcing their opinions on you or the whole community, they even sticked a post on top that says “it’s full here, don’t join”.
Where’s the actual questionable content? All I could find was a Mastodon thread claiming the devs have shitty opinions without any links to any actual people raising these opinions. The best I can do is guess they are referring to lemmygrad, which indeed looks like a brain dead shit hole of insanity, but how does that relate to the developers again? A bit more clear-cut presentation would be greatly beneficial, as this level of discussion is FUD as best.
Ditto, I see people everywhere but not actual evidence from the developers. Best I could find was some questionable essays in the main dev’s Github, but so what? If I buy clothes through Shein now I am some child labor apologist? If we keep rejecting people with good ideas for having shitty opinions we will die waiting.
Link to the said essays, so it’s clear what we’re dealing with here: https://github.com/dessalines/essays
Ok, so the guy likes his communism. I do find it weird (and a bit stupid), but he can’t control the instances he hasn’t started, and doesn’t directly benefit from them. So it’s very hard to see the problem here.
I don’t think his political views are relevant in the first place. As long as he’s a great developer and nice to work with, there is no problem for Lemmy and its users.
People really need to stop doing this thing where they disagree with something someone says just to discredit everything else that person does.
Yeah, I think people may be overreacting a bit, the whole point of federated social media (and FOSS software), is that nobody really owns anything. This is not like if the CEO of some company did shady business or something, personally I couldn’t care less.
My concern is that he will use his admin powers in relevant subs ([email protected]) to suppress relevant topics there. I don’t think that requires forking in itself, but might justify defederation to help alternative groups grow.
Certainly that’s a fair concern, but we had shitty moderation in Reddit too. Whatever Lemmy grows into is largely up to us users.
I don’t believe it will happen when the devs themselves mention this in the docs and are clearly opposing it.
It’s reasonable to have the same sub on alternative instances just in case, but I don’t think defederation is appropriate when there isn’t many users in total since that would kill the community before it forms.
Indeed.
Why the hate against lemmygrad? Just let them have their opinion. Have they done anything wrong to you personally? No? Then let them be. At least this is how I like to think about it.
Also, are we really going to start witch hunts for instances that federate with an instance that you don’t like?
Exactly. As a libertarian I leave the freedom to anybody to say anything they want. As long as it does not interfere with my freedom let them do or say whatever they want.
I’d send you an All-Seeing award, if this was another site :)
I see, this could be a concern regarding the moderation policy of Lemmy.ml. However, if there is some unhinged upfuckery, unlike in the case of Reddit, we don’t have to migrate to a completely new service, just to another instance.
I’m not about to defend their opinions but to me, I don’t see how they matter. It sucks that I wouldn’t find the devs to be ethical in that case, but I care far more about this federated platform. As long as they keep it to their own instance and keep developing an open platform for others, I don’t know that it’s relevant.
I completely agree with this, the entire point of federated services is if you don’t want to share the website with edgy internet socialists you just don’t join one that ends in .ml. It’s not like only the best people in the world use Reddit…
I thought that for upstream changes you need to work with them? So the soft fork
The enemies of lemmy are trying to slander the devs with ridiculous claims. They will always claim genocide because they want to associate everything with nazis and the holocaust. It’s an old tactic.
Are you implying that a piece of software has “ennemies”?
Well yeah, Lemmy has direct competitors
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Having made the transition a few days ago myself, I hesitate to call it the smart part of Reddit. However, I tend to believe the early adopter crowd and the ones who can figure out Lemmy (My gosh, so difficult! The UX is not exactly the same as Reddit!) are somewhat more interesting than the people who would just accept the upfuckery of Reddit and stay there.
https://lemmyrs.org/c/rustlang seems to me a more reasonable instance and home for r/rust than lemmy.ml/c/rust
I can’t help reading it as “crust”.
@v_krishna @Veritas
In the future surely but lemmyrs is very new, so do not unsubscribe from c/rust jet :DYeah I’d love a way to have user preference to merge multiple communities (from my pov) for exactly this issue.
@v_krishna I believe it is already this way if the communities on different instances are called the same.
Personally think it would be more reasonable to have rust at this instance. https://programming.dev/c/rust
I hope the devs might make a pin at a directory of communities they can join like a unified directory of all instances and in those instances, the communities they have. I think that way rather than seeing the most popular instances, users would join those communities from their instance however the popularity of such an instance and community can sometimes act identifier for making decisions which instance they would join in also which community. So idk like maybe having a directory by interest might help others to encourage to join those communities from their home instance rather than registering as new user at every instance.
That has the disadvantage that it’s moderation policies may not be in line with the rust code of conduct. But having independent communities next to the official one would be great anyways, to facilitate independent discussion.
agreed, should move to programming.dev
no and no
I’m thinking of copying my Threads subreddit already have one in Squabbles but Dosent have the same customization that Reddit has https://www.reddit.com/r/Threads1984/ Tried creating one for Lemmy but then it said https://www.reddit.com/r/LemmyMigration/comments/1462pe7/what_is_the_requested_format/ But I’m going to try creating the Threads Lemmy on the desktop
Update it worked.
r/rust is private
A lot of comments in this post have reminded me of how many people wanted to ban RSM from the FSF he himself founded, and most of those people don’t even know him, neither understand the values he believes in and defend.
At any rate, the current banning culture is pretty nocive, and so is the mono culture we live in, and are not even aware most of the time. Thankfully there are already multiple lemmy instances for people to join, and there will be more. And one can always contribute upstream (it’s up to the devs to accept MRs/PRs), and do testing on one’s instance. However AFAIK, [email protected] as well as many other technical communities, don’t really include that much political conversations, and the few that show up on those tech communities, can be ignored, or one can get involved, that’s up to oneself, but the point is not to just go ahead and judge a good way to share, and in particular [email protected] has been very good this far.
This same thread, which wasn’t deleted or banned, actually is one of the few political ones. I just hope it doesn’t end on having to search on so many rust communities that it defeats the purpose of link aggregation…
