Full IDF Spokesperson statement:

Attached is the briefing: https://IDFANC.activetrail.biz/ANC1810202362

Attached is a recording of a conversation between Hamas operatives regarding the Islamic Jihad failed rocket launch on the hospital on October 17, 2023: https://bit.ly/3S4xqiG

Attached is a visual analysis following the IAF’s examination on the subject: https://IDFANC.activetrail.biz/ANC1810156854

Attached is an infographic of all the failed rocket launches in the Gaza Strip since the beginning of the war: https://IDFANC.activetrail.biz/1810202309876543672

Attached is a photograph from the IDF launch identification system on the subject: https://IDFANC.activetrail.biz/ANC18102023984

Looks like evidence has been published, and at least partially verified by OSINT groups (in the linked article)

  • _NoName_
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    1 year ago

    Alright, gonna be a skeptic.

    We’re seeing an Israeli news source followed by an IDF statement with IDF evidence, so a conflict of interest does exist with these sources, though that doesn’t mean either is lying. That being said, if Israel did deliberately target a hospital in Gaza with as many eyes on Gaza as there are, that’d be a really fucking stupid move. At the same time, If they did, lying and completely fabricating everything is in their highest interest. At minimum, though, I think that any trustworthiness one would associate with journalists or military Intel be thrown out, and the evidence be viewed with skepticism

    There is also some oppositely damning evidence in circulation. GeoConfirmed apparently did their own locating of where the video occurred, and - if accurate - from the videos perspective, the missile was moving northwest, from the direction of Israel. They are also A third party in this, though, so their bias is not immediately determinable from this one tweet, nor can the factuality be easily confirmed.

    We’re still in the fog of war, and simultaneously a war for our minds and support is being waged. I am going to wait for more information from more parties to arrive.

    EDIT: I previously stated the tweet I linked claimed the missile was moving north east, which it doesn’t - that’s my misphrasing. The tweet I linked specifically repeats the falling shrapnel story - though the evidence they show shows the camera looking southeast, with the missile coming from said direction towards the camera. I’ve rewritten it to be more clear.

    • dumdum666
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      431 year ago

      The geoconfirmed link in your article (to x) actually claims the opposite of what you are claiming it does:

      „ Conclusion:

      A missile launched by a Palestinian group exploded mid-air (Reason unknown) and one piece fell on the hospital causing an explosion.

      The geolocation and timing of the footage is conclusive.„

    • @Earthwormjim91
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      71 year ago

      If it were Israel, they would just say Hamas was using the hospital as a military facility like they have in the past.

      • Amilo159
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        11 year ago

        Their minister did say that before he deleted the tweet. I guess they realise what they had done and decided to say “wasn’t us”

    • _NoName_
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      -241 year ago

      Something that occurs to me that I can’t really get out of my head is perhaps Israel using it’s iron dome system to intercept missiles so that the shrapnel lands inside Gaza. I don’t know much about the iron dome system, nor what the alternatives to making missile shrapnel fall on civilians are.

      If anyone with more knowledge about these things could weigh in, I’d appreciate it.

      • @MeanEYE
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        -51 year ago

        Removed by mod

      • @[email protected]
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        -51 year ago

        No shot a Hamas rocket has that kind of firepower, especially after detonation.

        If you watch the comparison video, it sounds very much like a US JDAM rig (which is like a strap-on guidance system for normally-dumb ordinance; so instead of just falling from a plane and hoping for the best, it can aim and steer to a target.

        Do you know who has US military tech? Hmmm

        • @Ducks
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          1 year ago

          deleted by creator

        • dumdum666
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          21 year ago

          Again: So there is a sound comparison of two videoclips with no information whatsoever when they were created and what they are showing.

          Why is that proof for anything?

        • @[email protected]
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          11 year ago

          If it was a misfire, it could still have been full of fuel, could that have had an effect?

          (Not seen videos)

  • ∟⊔⊤∦∣≶
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    361 year ago

    Alright, let’s get an independent to verify, but it’s looking pretty damning for Hamas at this point.

    • Chariotwheel
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      381 year ago

      Yeah, they didn’t shoot that, it was the Palestinian Islamic Jihad according to the evidence delievered by Israel. Not the same groups, although they coordinate sometimes. But Hamas went right out of the gate blaming Israel despite apparently knowing better, and that’s just not a good look at all if true.

          • @[email protected]
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            -41 year ago

            Doing literal genocide denial because someone on hexbear made a point you didn’t like and you got called out for your response.

            Sad bro

      • @fluxion
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        111 year ago

        Blatantly lying all over the Internet and media is actually a semi-good look these days, unfortunately.

      • @kromem
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        51 year ago

        Oh damn, lying online might tarnish Hamas’s reputation?

        Hey guys, specifically targeting, torturing, and murdering hundreds of civilians was fine - but we should really draw the line at lying online. That’s just barbarous.

    • @[email protected]
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      21 year ago

      Does it? Israel is the last person to trust. I wouldn’t even trust them if they admitted it

      • @BlueGerald
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        1 year ago

        Lol. But you would trust these Hamas psychos?

    • NoneOfUrBusiness
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      1 year ago

      I mean an Israeli minister actually went out and said “we hit a Hamas base”. That’s also pretty damning.

      Edit: To correct myself, I have no idea why I thought he was a minister. He’s part of Netenyahu’s “digital team”, whatever that is.

          • ∟⊔⊤∦∣≶
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            1 year ago

            Dude, have you done like, any research on this guy? This guy is not a ‘minister.’ He is basically tech support. He is (or was) on the digital team. Not in the military, not an official, not a spokesperson for Israel in any capacity. He is an Israel fanatic influencer.

            I have seen this posted everywhere as somehow ‘proof’ but it’s a fricken influencer who jumped the gun and then got told to shut up because he had his info wrong and deleted the tweet.

            This is proof of absolutely nothing except influencers are cancer.

            • ∟⊔⊤∦∣≶
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              81 year ago

              If anyone can clarify what ‘digital team’ even means, that would be great. It could mean this guy is in charge of photoshopping out lens flares.

            • @buzziebee
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              41 year ago

              Too easy to buy a blue tick and cause rampant misinformation to start flying. Twitter used to be pretty good for breaking news, now it’s impossible to trust any accounts without a lot of research.

            • NoneOfUrBusiness
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              -31 year ago

              Okay fair enough. I misremembered him as a minister for some reason. Also yeah, what’s a digital team?

              • BraveSirZaphod
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                71 year ago

                Both sides have online propaganda teams to influence people’s opinions on the conflict.

                • @Serinus
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                  21 year ago

                  Which may or may not be this guy, but yes.

      • Chariotwheel
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        01 year ago

        I mean, could he have been refering to a different location? According to the Israel briefing, there was no activity of theirs at that time in the area of the hospital. I imagine there is a lot going on on both sides in all kinds of locations at all times at the moment.

  • Chariotwheel
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    191 year ago

    Very compelling evidence, especially if it gets verified. They even adressed the question mark of it being more damage than these groups usually do when their missiles hit. It would be very high stakes lying, but then again, this is a high stakes situation. Whoever did that has a lot of innocent blood on their hands.

    • @[email protected]
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      261 year ago

      Lots of Islamic Jihad & Hamas missiles fail during flight and kill Palestinians. Israel had published videos in the past showing e.g. 8 launches at night, pausing the video and showing how 2 or 3 suddenly turn down to the ground to hit the Gaza strip. And of course the local terrorist groups accounted dead Palestinians to Israel striking those locations. It’s sometimes easy to show, with visible rocket engines at night and sometimes harder.

    • @[email protected]
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      251 year ago

      It happens all the time. Hamas and Islamic Jihad don’t care for civilians or conventions and never did, all they care about is literally “killing Jews”. Next question people should be asking: “why are they launching rockets from a hospital’s parking lot? Isn’t that a warcrime?” And the answer is yes and always has been.

      • @[email protected]
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        71 year ago

        Also note that launching rockets from the hospital makes it a legitimate target and therefore not a warcrime to hit it. Innocents die but it is fair game to destroy it when used as a platform to launch attacks from.

    • @MeanEYE
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      111 year ago

      News outlets don’t give a shit nor does the public. They all jumped at the initial news, regurgitated it verbatim and now that cool heads are analyzing everything it doesn’t matter anymore. PR was done.

    • @alvvayson
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      71 year ago

      They even adressed the question mark of it being more damage than these groups usually do when their missiles hit.

      Can you help me find that bit? I read the article and briefing, but didn’t see this addressed.

      • Chariotwheel
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        111 year ago

        The Guardian had it in their coverage:

        On how a rocket fired from Gaza could cause so much damage he said:

        The existence of propellant made a larger explosion than the warhead itself. And this caused the damage, the explosions that we see of the burning cars here.

        https://www.theguardian.com/world/live/2023/oct/18/israel-hamas-war-live-news-gaza-hospital-west-bank-update-joe-biden-visit-protests-latest-updates?page=with:block-652f822b8f085b7fcf67317c#block-652f822b8f085b7fcf67317c

        • @alvvayson
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          21 year ago

          Ah, thanks!

          Makes sense, kinda like how the jets on 9/11 also had full fuel tanks.

        • NoneOfUrBusiness
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          -21 year ago

          The existence of propellant made a larger explosion than the warhead itself. And this caused the damage, the explosions that we see of the burning cars here.

          I’m not an expert but this doesn’t sound very plausible considering the explosion basically leveled the building. Anyone with relevant expertise care to chime in?

          • BraveSirZaphod
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            81 year ago

            What I’m seeing pro-Israel sources saying is that the building is relatively intact and that the explosion took place in a parking lot. Given that Hamas stated “500 deaths” less than half an hour after the event, they also express some skepticism about how true the casualty count really is.

            I’ll only say that this is a total mess right now and that everything should be seen with some skepticism, especially claims that reinforce what you already believe or want to believe.

            • NoneOfUrBusiness
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              1 year ago

              What I’m seeing pro-Israel sources saying is that the building is relatively intact and that the explosion took place in a parking lot.

              We’ve already seen the building. It was flattened.

              Edit: Apparently no it wasn’t.

              • @[email protected]
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                41 year ago

                Then you’ve been mislead. It hit the parking lot, damaged vehicles but left the building relatively intact and, besides windows, superficially damaged.

  • dumdum666
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    191 year ago

    Okay I actually made the effort to listen to the Audio and took a look at those photos.

    The two men in the audio recording are talking about a misfire that happened directly behind the hospital - from a nearby cemetery to be exact.

    https://bit.ly/3S4xqiG

    On the other hand you attached a picture that shows a rocket launch site that is quite a long way from the Hospital - or is this the cemetery those men in the voice recording were talking about?

    https://idfanc.activetrail.biz/ANC18102023984

    Are you sure that this is the right picture?

  • @[email protected]
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    141 year ago

    Does anyone have sources on what kind of missiles Palestinian groups typically have access to? I think that would be very useful in evaluating the claims being made.

      • @Madison420
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        -11 year ago

        Those are all rockets that claim to have been used. Notably most were caught trying to enter Gaza because they’re goddamn huge. 99% of everything fired from Gaza is going to be homemade, small and slow as fuck which is why iron dome even though it’s not particularly sophisticated compared to ciws of major nations.

      • @[email protected]
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        11 year ago

        I would count that as having access to them. But that by itself doesn’t answer the question of what exactly they’re able to build and if it’s big enough to do as much damage as we saw. Based on someone else’s link it looks like they do have missiles big enough to do catastrophic damage to a large building, especially if they crash right after takeoff and are full of propellant. That was a surprise to me. It’s not proof of anything but it does make Israel’s story seem more plausible.

        • @Windex007
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          11 year ago

          Oh yeah, I’m not out here to weigh in at all about what happened.

          Just weighing in with the answer to the very reasonable question of “where do the rockets come from?”

      • dumdum666
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        21 year ago

        So there is a sound comparison of two videoclips with no information whatsoever when they were created and what they are showing.

  • @avater
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    1 year ago

    I wonder where all the people from yesterday are now…for them it was damn sure Israel and if you made the mistake to publish this second opinion or made the suggestion to wait for other sources your were downvoted into oblivion…

    But also with this new source I would wait until it is verified independently. I really like this approach from our german news station Tagesschau, where all news get a label until they are verified by different, independent sources. Makes fake news a lot less common.

      • @avater
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        1 year ago

        just to be very clear here: Even if this cruel and should be absolutely prevented, when the space around or the medical facility itself is used by the enemy forces to launch attacks or store ammunition or other equipment, it makes it a valid, military target. Attacking a hospital is not automatically a war crime as it is declared by many here…

        • @[email protected]
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          1 year ago

          I would go as far to say that using a hospital or civilian building as a base of operations to launch missiles from is the war crime in this scenario. If innocent people die from retaliation for that, the blood is on the hands of the people who chose to use civilians as meat shields and make them a target in the first place.

          Edit: To be clear, this isn’t a pro-Israel comment. Fuck them. I was just saying that if Hamas actually used hospitals as launch sites or military bases they would be the ones who are responsible. I don’t know for certain if they did or didn’t at this time.

          • @avater
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            61 year ago

            It actually is a war crime to do that

    • @echo64
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      331 year ago

      I wonder where all the people from yesterday are now…

      this article is 25 minutes old at time of writing, how is anyone supposed to talk about any of this stuff when you start comments like this.

        • @avater
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          -41 year ago

          German news already posted about this yesterday and I added it to the thread from yesterday which is now deleted…

      • @avater
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        1 year ago

        German news already posted about this yesterday and I added it to the thread from yesterday which is now deleted…

        • @echo64
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          61 year ago

          damn those people for not reading your comment on a thread from yesterday that is now deleted, what are they even doing? they need to answer for themselves.

          • snooggums
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            Not engaging with deleted comments is a literal war crime!

        • @[email protected]
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          11 year ago

          LOL and then everyone downvotes you, proving your point further. You’re right though, last night was a shitshow of people taking sides with almost no data and then downvoting anyone on the other team.

    • Chariotwheel
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      111 year ago

      Not saying that there are vile people that are just rooting for their football team no matter what happens, but I did fine here offering the opinion that both statements were - at the time - equally not backed by evidence. I did mention, that the Guardian did mention that the size of explosion is more than usual for the weapons of the militants, but even that didn’t necessearily mean that it was Israel.

      If we’re looking at this we should look at all neews criticial, especially if one supports a side over the other. It’s too easy to fall for hopeful rumours and fantasies anyways. Seen too many people who just go on any unbacked claim by either side “aha! I knew it”. It’s a volatile and chaotic situation and a lot of bad actors just try to score points.

    • @[email protected]
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      41 year ago

      They don’t care that they were wrong. The next time Hamas claims Israel did something bad they will believe it instantly and only question whatever IDF says. It’s not about the truth but what they wished the truth was.

      • Hyperreality
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        41 year ago

        Both sides of the argument are so entrenched they engage in cognitive dissonance and cherry picking almost constantly.

        • @avater
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          01 year ago

          which is stupid as fuck.

      • @vind
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        21 year ago

        I’m skeptical of both claims, but so far the evidence leans far more on it being Israeli strike. Especially with their continuously changing narrativem

    • @Ducks
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      deleted by creator

    • NoneOfUrBusiness
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      -41 year ago

      Uh… take a look at this.

      https://kbin.social/m/[email protected]/t/548047/Israel-kills-500-in-Gaza-hospital-massacre#entry-comment-3020730

      Maybe not 100% Israel, but a good 99.9%.

      Also quick reminder that Hamas rockets can’t cause the scale of destruction that happened to the hospital. This is much more believable from an IDF airstrike.

      • Chariotwheel
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        121 year ago

        At the very least, you should look at all evidence given to us before making a judgement.

        Alone that you are saying “Hamas” rockets shows that you have not really dove into the topic. Because not even Israel claimed it was Hamas, but Islamic Jihad, which is a distinct group. Furthermore, they also had an argument regarding the increased damage.

        I suggest you look at what we know first, before you make a judgement like “99.9%”. This disinformation shit happens on both sides and it must be stopped. The situation doesn’t get any clearer by people doing this.

        • NoneOfUrBusiness
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          31 year ago

          Because not even Israel claimed it was Hamas, but Islamic Jihad, which is a distinct group.

          Yeah, fair enough. Palestinian rockets in general don’t have that kind of explosive capability, but I said Hamas because saying “Palestinians” incriminates too many people, which was probably not a smart decision now that I think about it.

          • Chariotwheel
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            111 year ago

            Yeah, thanks for your insight. I don’t fault you for being angry at Israel, I am too. But all the more reason to stick to the facts and don’t criticize Israel on loose grounds. There are enough crimes we know they did, and it’s less than productive to make something we don’t know for sure is their fault into their fault only to have facts blown up in our faces.

            Sticking as close a possible to the facts, consider information of all kinds, even if we don’t like the people, it’s important in this disinformation war raging on the topic. We can be better than the people who still repeat the false 40 beheaded babies.

  • @randon31415
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    91 year ago

    So, what I gather from this thread and others:

    Islamic Jihad, a group separate from Hamas and not getting missiles from Iran, cobbles together their own home-made rocket made out of duck tape and twine and fires it at Israel. The rocket, unsurprisingly, falls apart and part of it falls on the parking lot of Gaza city hospital, killing about a dozen or so people. Hamas rushes to the scene and asks how many are dead. Gaza hospital says 500 - 12 from the missile and 488 from the … you know siege and food/medicine blockade.

    Hamas knows that the IDF has targeted this hospital before and had no doubt that they would it again, and since the missile didn’t come from them, releases a press release saying the IDF bombed a hospital and 500 are dead. This makes President Abbas call off his meeting with Biden and throws a wrench in the peace process, just what Hamas wants.

    The IDF initially just say “Hamas did it,” and if you disagree we’ve got this new law that jails reporters for saying bad stuff about Israel. Then they release a video footage of a different rocket barrage that has nothing to do with anything. Biden comes over and goes: “Come on, this isn’t the cold war, it’s the information age. We’ve got like 10 live web cams throughout Gaza city streaming, OSINT probably got it. If you didn’t do it, there ain’t any reason to lie about it.”

    Of course, that is just what I got from Lemmy, so probably a mix of propaganda from both sides. Feel free to yell all the corrections in the world in the replies.

    • Dremor
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      51 year ago

      Speaking of livestream, this seems to be a video from that night, from a geolocated position :

      https://twitter.com/yousuf_tw/status/1714367757968384106

      We see a rocket being launched, seemingly missfire and blowing up high in the sky, then two explosions, the second one being near the hospital.

    • @Seudo
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      01 year ago

      To someone who can’t be bothered doing any independent research, this sounds the most likely.

    • Hyperreality
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      51 year ago

      Do you think linking to an electronic intifada article makes you seem more or less biased?

    • @[email protected]
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      31 year ago

      Read the article. Separate sources have come up with videos from another angle, backing Israel’s claim.

      • @[email protected]
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        41 year ago

        Oh, is that the one with the wrong timestamp? Or is that the one where all the lights are still on in Gaza? Sorry I’m getting all my IDF propaganda confused

        • dumdum666
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          11 year ago

          Sorry I’m getting all my IDF propaganda confused

          You are not the slightest bit better, by spreading an obscure Video that has no information whatsoever when/where it was made and what exactly is shown.

  • @markr
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    -11 year ago

    Thousands of missiles were fired from Gaza last week, and apparently none of them turned around and struck Gaza. On the other hand Israel has been conducting a bombing campaign this week that has blown up a whole lot of buildings, including (according to the NYT) 4 other hospitals… It is obviously possible that this was an errant missile from Gaza, it is much more likely that this was a bomb from Israel.

    • @[email protected]
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      161 year ago

      Did you see the report? Quite a lot of rockets fired from Gaza fails and hit somewhere in Gaza.

    • @[email protected]
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      31 year ago

      and apparently none of them turned around and struck Gaza.

      5-20% depending on the type of missile/rocket generally land inside the Strip. They don’t use aerospace grade materials, so imperfections that wouldn’t cause a problem in 100 years of use as an irrigation pipe end up failing on the multiple G forces associated with rocketry.

    • @Madison420
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      -21 year ago

      Bro just watch the video of Hamas rocket impacts and compare it against the hospital impact, there is no fucking way that’s a homemade sewer pipe rocket.