Bibi not using available intelligence to avoid the attack?
I don’t understand, why would he want that! What would he have to gain?
(Obvious sarcasm)
9-11 was a failure of intelligence. It also led to easy justification for two wars. But I’m sure this won’t be like that. People will be reasonable this time. /s
The news-media has been calling it “Israel’s 9-11” pretty much from Day 1. Kind of thought it was understood Bibi let this happen for genocide justification purposes.
Kind of thought it was understood Bibi let this happen
he’s a dumb corrupt piece of shit, but this is something that needs evidence if you’re gonna imply it’s some sort of obvious open secret. We did that for that war monger Bush, we can do it to bibi instead of just assuming and passing it off as fact
The question is what’s stronger, Bibi’s moral fibre or his desire to stay in power and avoid prison? Because I am not that quite sure about the non-genocidality of characters like Ben-Gvir.
You mean the guy who pushed to empower Hamas in order to weaken the PLO might be a little responsible for this?
He’s lucky Israelis are so fucking dumb
deleted by creator
I’m surprised they haven’t replaced Netanyahoo with Netangoogle yet.
Negasonic Jewish Warmonger
What about Nethanlycos?
Mostly because Netanyahoo is still better at porn than Netangoogle. I don’t remember how it compares to Netanbing.
I personally prefer Netanduckduckgo.
What’s the deal with Netanyandex?
deleted by creator
It’s coming. Bibi green lit 6billion for chips for open ai
deleted by creator
Now, do they think he failed by instituting inhumane conditions on Gaza leading to them lashing out? Or he failed by not oppressing them enough?
Or failed by diverting almost all the border guards over to the West Bank to oppress the Palestinians there.
But we need to how they feel about that second part…
The official policy on Hamas was to just sort of ignore them in favor of stealing land in the West Bank.
The official policy on Hamas was to just sort of ignore them in favor of stealing land in the West Bank.
Not quite, Bibi’s official policy was to continue actively undermining the Palestinian Authority so that Hamas was the only group capable of seizing power in the vacuum of Gaza.
Honestly, if that’s what was happening behind the scenes… what the fuck? Why?
That’s like if us Americans undermined every single political organization in Mexico except for the Sinaloa cartel (and yeah, at this point, Sinaloa have become a criminal organization with real and serious political clout). That strategy would CLEARLY and OBVIOUSLY lead to catastrophic and deadly serious security issues on our doorstep. And that doesn’t even touch on any analogy for the whole “Arabs and Israelis have basically been at war with each other since 1948” thing.
There is a certain contingent on the Israeli far-right who are quite comfortable pushing Palestinians into the arms of Hamas and Iran, to better justify harsher repression. If a few hundred hippies in kibbutzim and music festivals have to die, then such is the price of revealing how inhuman (/s should be implied, but I’ll make it clear) the Palestinians are.
I mean, I get that, but it seems a particularly dangerous and idiotic thing to do when the militants that you’re antagonizing are, like, a few dozen or so km away from your national fucking capital
Nobody said fascists were smart. They think short-term and end at that.
I don’t think they actually think.
Like if we look historically at fascist actions, don’t they usually end up with multiple options and almost always choose the one that sounds powerful over actually being powerful?
They literally think they’re going to kill everyone in Gaza and get away with it. They don’t care.
I bet for that kind of people it doesnt look so dangerous and idiotic if it’s someone else’s blood that gets spilled.
I don’t think people in Israel view it as a good or bad way, just by the results.
If someone tries to sell you on less freedom, less privacy, more surveillance, and you still get attacked, then people start to wonder what was the point. Regardless of the measures taken.
This is almost the exact same article that was posted last week, except this time from Reuters instead of JPost. They both reference polls done by Maariv, but once again fail to link to actual poll results. Am I taking crazy pills here for wanting to see the actual poll? Wtf is up with modern journalism?
Nobody wants to pay for news; which means nobody gets paid well to report it. So here we are in this dumpster fire of modern journalism.
deleted by creator
More like people stopped paying for the news because it became a dumpster fire. You got confused there my friend.
Removed by mod
Same old story: you give people no choice and when they make the only choice you left them you use that to justify your actions.
Removed by mod
deleted by creator
Removed by mod
IDF have way too much god damned influence is the problem with modern journalism
Yeah, they’re putting a lot of old conspirancies under a brand new light. Too much control on the news environment.
It took Joe Biden to travel to Israel to Scooby Doo the Middle East and tell us who the real perpetrator of the conflict is.
FWIW the times of israel also reported on this.
Did they link to the poll or just talk about the results?
Just talk absolut the results as well
Modern journalism is about being first and the CTA is user interaction. So basically the popular method is to create as extreme headline as possible as early as possible without any need for proof.
It’s a pile of horse garbage
Honestly, no news sites actually like the poll unless they’re the ones that do it. (Youll sometimes see Fox link to a fox poll for example)
I dont know why this is. Maybe they don’t want you to leave their site?
I don’t find that to be the case. I always make it a point to check the actual polls instead of relying on the headlines, and it’s usually pretty easy to find. For some reason, this particular poll has been reported multiple times in the last week and I’ve never been able to find a link to it. Last week someone even looked at the Israeli website of the people conducting the poll and still couldn’t find it.
I mean yeah, he’s a corrupt piece of trash who is actively hurting israelis (and basically everyone else in the region for that matter)
Reigon? World man, these wars have ripple effects that totally skew some people into full blown racists. Hell, that poor kid got shot by his landlord recently.
Don’t forget the 6 yo boy who was stabbed multiple times by a man who used to play with him.
I’m pretty sure that’s who they’re talking about. They just thought they got shot instead. Someone correct me if two kids got murdered by their landlords recently…
I’m dearly hoping, and maybe even optimistic, that Israel will take a lesson moving forwards that, while the violence of two weeks ago was not and can never be justified, the underlying anger and resentment that produced it didn’t emerge from nowhere, and Netanyahu did a lot to very directly incite it. Israel needs to show that it will always be welcome towards working with Palestinians that are actually interested in moving towards peace, and actions like settlements in the West Bank and murdering journalists are not productive towards that aim.
The lack of diplomacy is sickening. Both peoples should be able to live in harmony but both sides want to hurt the other. It has to stop and that starts with the government talking to one another.
Both peoples should be able to live in harmony butboth sides want to hurt the other.That last part is the most important. Everyone wants a fight.
The possibility of peace and harmony is completely and totally irrelevant so long as the people demand bloodshed.
Solomon offered to split the child, and awarded custody to the woman willing to give him up. That story has a much different ending when both women would rather the child be divided than allow the other to prevail.
It’s stupid to the core. They are fighting a war that serves no purpose. All they know is they have been told not to like the other side for something that happened eons ago.
Yeah you’re missing a piece. There is no peace in Palestine, it’s not like they “stop fighting” and Israel will stop oppressing them. Israel wants the land, and the Palestinians have nowhere else to go. There is no way out from there.
It’s difficult to talk with an organization who’s stated purpose is the murder and destruction of your country. Doubly so when they have a proven track record of 15 years of negotiating ceasefires only after they ran out of rockets to use against civilians.
Bottom line, Israel has stated the goal is to completely and permanently disarm Hamas and any other armed group in Gaza. Israelis will not accept any solution that leaves even a possibility for October 7th to repeat itself.
Even a humanitarian ceasefire will be unlikely until after the ground campaign starts.
Israel will accept nothing that might prevent the ethnic cleansing and the stealing of the land you mean. Were you forgetting that part?
No.
Please engage in a civil and open minded manner.
I did. It’s not uncivil because you don’t like it.
It’s dishonest to pretend the other side shares your point of view, thus ignoring their point of view, as if it would not exist.
A bit ironic to do so in a subthread which is all about the two sides should talk to each other.
Maybe it only underlines how hard that is. We here have no stakes in that game and still cannot at least acknowledge other positions.
So we agree it was perfectly civil. Good.
“Failing” implies that it was unintentional.
The evidence quite clearly indicates that it was not - that it was instead a very deliberate choice made in pursuit of long-term goals
Netanyahu explicitly rejects a two-state solution. His goal is to annex all existing Palestinian territory.
The Palestinian people are justifiably unwilling to submit to that, because they know that that way leads to them being made second-class citizens of an apartheid state.
The only alternative then is for Israel to conquer those territories - to kill enough Palestinians to terrorize the rest into subjugation. And that is, certainly not coincidentally, the exact strategy they’re pursuing at this moment.
And the Hamas attack is the specific thing that made it possible for them to do so with at least some colorable semblance of justification.
Therefore, the only reasonable conclusion is that when the Israeli government learned of the planned attack, a deliberate choice was made to not move to prevent it - to allow it to happen, because it would serve Netanyahu’s purposes when it did. As it has.
It’s wild how many people buy into that conspiracy theory – or that someone could call something so bonkers the “only reasonable conclusion.” Security is Netanyahu’s central promise to Israelis. There is nothing that could be more damaging to him than appearing weak or incompetent on security. It’s the most tortured logic that would have you conclude that having the worst attack in the history of the country occur on his watch could somehow be good for him. His political career is over, his legacy is in tatters, and he’ll no longer be able to out-manoeuver his legal problems.
Not to mention that he’d be executed for treason if he was complicit in the worst massacre of Jewish people since the Holocaust.
Being disgraced, discredited, or dead doesn’t help Netanyahu meet his goals.
It’s typical antisemitism to invent conspiracies to blame the jews for the ills of the world.
This is absurd conspiracy-nut level of thinking. Among other reasons because this will likely end Netanyahu’s career after the war ends, he’s no longer immediately needed and investigations start (Israelis have a history of actually doing those properly because most see it as an existential threat to not have functioning defense mechanisms), and I’m pretty sure that he knows this. Which means that the reason for him to do this anyway would be because he’s so selfless that he doesn’t care about his career or power (even though after losing his career he’s likely to face lawsuits for other things he’s done) as long as this goal is completed. I hope you see how nonsensical it is for a super-populist politician under the threat of several investigations to selflessly give up his career and power.
Will the people vote differently? I bet not.
Coalition governments are totally different than a two party system in the USA. There are over a dozen parties with in Israel, Netenyahu needed to form a coalition with ultra-nationalist to win. Each of these parties have to be kept happy else the coalition falls apart.
Well, it might. The Hamas surprise attack is the exact same thing as the surprise attack that started the Yom Kippur War. The prime minister at the time, Golda Meir, was also blamed for intelligence failure and her government resigned. This might happen again under Netanyahu, but he seems to be a smart enough fella for self-preservation so he might have learned from history. But who knows.
(as an aside, very ironic to say “intelligence failure” if anyone catches my drift)
The Knesset has 120 seats. Likud has 32. Most Israelis did not vote for Netanyahu.
I mean, who else would be responsible? Buck stops with him
deleted by creator
I will go with the first option.
Jews, the new nazies
