- cross-posted to:
- workreform
- cross-posted to:
- workreform
When Bill Kowalcic first heard that his company Advanced RV was trying out a four-day workweek, he was filled with questions.
“All of us were a little nervous — like, are we going to be able to get our work done? Are we going to do OK? Is this going to hurt us?” says Kowalcic, a skilled craftsman who works in the finishing department.
A year and a half later, he has answers.
Not only has his team found shortcuts and time savers, he’s happier on the job.
“Gosh, it’s been great,” he says.
“I’ve never had a job where I’ve said this before, but at the end of the three-day weekend, I’m ready to come back in Monday morning.”
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To answer my initial questions.
They are using a 32 hour work week.
They do not all seem to have the same day off, but that is not directly discussed.
There was internal resistance.
Output is close to what it was on a 40 hour work week.
It is worth the read.
Numerous studies around the world have shown better productivity with the 30ish hour week: better attitude, fewer mishaps, more focused work groups… Glad to see it done & voiced in the US (again).
Couldn’t the 4-day workweek work without issue if they just hired more people and they worked different days?
Of course, there would be less profit. But there’s already too much, so what’s the problem?
It creates jobs, stimulates the economy, and people don’t have to work as hard.
My local council here in the UK moved to a 4 day work week (with the same pay). Counterintuitively they’ve ended up saving £500k a year because they hire far fewer agency staff.
Productivity has remained the same or increased in all bar one metric and staff retention is much higher.
Of course our halfwitted government has said they’re not allowed to do that because it apparently provides poor value for the tax payer. I despair…
less profit
Here, I found the problem…
there would be less profit
I challenge this assumption.
I WFH at a software dev. We make money hand over fist. And the CEO tells the board of directors that we’re going to purposefully lose money, for 4 quarters, in order to beef up our staff, skills and product. We failed at losing money the last 2 times he said that, still trying to lose.
Sometimes I do 3 hours, and yes, that’s embarrassing to me. Sometimes I do 14 hours, and if it’s a day like that, it’s because I choose to jump on a serious issue for a client. And we always take care of our clients, all hands on deck if it’s go time.
And my boss takes care of me, if you can believe that. 2 hours out to head to the doctor? Nobody cares. 4 hours? Meh. Take half a day of PTO. We have so much PTO, I take almost every Friday off.
And besides, these clients are my buddies. I call them, talk to them, form relationships, don’t want to let them down. If someone calls or texts while I’m laying in bed on my day off? “Hey! Shalafi here! What’s up?” I take responsibility for my work. Sounds nuts, don’t it?
All this seems an alien concept around lemmy.
Maybe increase your skills as you age and get into fields that don’t treat you like a dishwasher? Maybe understand that you have to pay your dues to get in such a position? Maybe understand that accomplishing such a position takes a decade or two?
Back to your point, yeah we hired more people. I handle the IT onboarding, so I know. And it’s working, and we’re profiting, and we’re happy campers. Lemmy tells me this can’t be so in this capitalistic hellscape.
Sometimes I do 3 hours, and yes, that’s embarrassing to me.
Why? If you do all you need to do, there’s nothing embarrassing about it. You shouldn’t be so beholden to a company that you feel guilt over them paying you the same amount to finish work in 3 hours as they would in 8 hours.
And it can be shorter still.
confused capitalist noises
Having worked a 4-10s schedule before, I also have a very strong preference for it.
Now imagine 4-8s at the same pay (and productivity because you aren’t perpetually exhausted by working 40+ hours a week in addition to all the other regular life things everyone needs to do).
If you can not work 40 hours in a week without being too exhausted to do anything, you should go see a medical professional.
I just started loading trailers all day compared to an office job before and I was up before 7 on Sunday and slept in on Saturday.
That is with no physical conditioning before hand.
Would it be nice to do 4 8’s? Sure.
But let us not pretend that 40 hours in a week are slave hours.
I just started loading trailers all day compared to an office job before and I was up before 7 on Sunday and slept in on Saturday.
I just started
First, congrats on a new job and take it easy because “just started a job more physically demanding than I’m used to” is among the most common workplace injury situations. Second, physical work is in a lot of ways less mentally exhausting than desk work but (obviously) more physically demanding, and they can both be equally exhausting, especially in the day after day month after month grind. Decision fatigue is a real thing and workplace burnout has been growing for years.
Before I had kids, after taking into account travel to work, cooking, and cleaning, I usually had about 3 or so hours to myself a day. Once you add additional life responsibilities (kids, aging parents, disabled family, house repairs) it starts to add up.
Something can be both exhausting and also not slave hours. But I’m glad your happy with your work hours in your current circumstances.
I originally had typed out a long-winded reply that I realized was ultimately counterproductive. In all likelihood we should be allies.
So let me start by congratulating you on your new position! I hope that you can continue to pump out that much energy on the job and still have at least that much energy to take home to friends and family.
That said, IMO the fight against the modern work week isn’t about people being tired. While I do think most people would be tired and lack energy for self, family, and friends after doing the work you do, that’s largely irrelevant. The real problem with the modern work week is that it’s simply not necessary any more.
I prefer making the comparison to peasants rather than slaves, as slaves obviously had/have it much worse than the average modern worker. Back in the days of peasantry people worked because they needed the fruit of their labor to survive. Regardless of how many hours it took or how tired they were, they directly relied on the crop they farmed and the clothes they made to survive. That is no longer the case.
In the modern age we produce more than we need to survive on a global scale. There is more than enough for everyone as is and there has been for some time. So why is it still expected that we work the same as we have for years and years? In the age where much of the work is automated and automation increasing rapidly, why is it still inherently expected that humans work just as much, or even remotely close to as much, as we have in the past? To us, the modern work week is essentially arbitrary. We work until “the boss” says we’ve worked enough to earn our allowance and they say we should be thankful for as much as we’re given. We no longer receive or rely on the fruit of our labor in order to survive, “the boss” relies on the fruit of our labor in order to afford their next luxury.
Don’t get me wrong, we live in an age of relative comfort. Most of us have plenty to survive and some creature comforts to spare. But if you are apart of “the 98%”, which in all likelihood you are, you are not receiving anything even remotely close to what you actually produce.
So, looking past any claims of being tired after 40 hours/week, or how studies have shown that in many cases the modern work week can literally be counterproductive, I ask you why we are expected to work 40 hours/week if it’s simply not necessary, aside from “the boss” essentially arbitrarily declaring that it is necessary? And really the fight for a shortened work week and the fight for increased minimum wage are the same fight. It’s all based on the fact that we as workers are receiving less and less for our work as time goes by.
That’s what the fight is really about, and why -provided you’re not a billionaire (which you’re very likely not)- we are allies. I may disagree with you on many things, myself and many others may not have as much energy as you, we may not have similar interests or hobbies, but truly none of that matters at all since we are both the modern day equivalent to peasants, except neither of us receives the full fruit of our labor. And for that I call you friend.
So with that, I wish you the greatest success in life friend. And whether or not you join the fight, or even agree with it, may you receive your true worth.
40 hours in a week are slave hours
I feel like I’m taking crazy pills.
People really think putting in 40-hours is backbreaking, slavish, capitalistic, hellscape labor?!
The more shit like this I read on social media like lemmy, the more I’m convinced the posters are literal children.
“We don’t want to put any effort into anything and we want it all!”
Sorry kids, if you want things, you have to provide value in return. It’s been this way since caveman times.
“But I’m a seriously nice guy and I’m seriously cool!”
Yeah, but what can you do for me? That’s what I’ll pay you for.
“I’m really nice and cool!”
I’m having a heart attack. Can you fix me?
“No, but I’m a great person!”
Yeah, I need a trained doctor, I’ll pay that person.
“But…”
Do you have skills and experience? It’s a complex world requiring education and experience.
“NOOO! PAY ME!”
You have a fair point, but I think I can explain: It’s less about not wanting to pick up a skill, and more about needing a reason to do so, some kind of hope.
Survival is great and all, but its animalistic and dumb, and we all end up dead anyway. So working just to survive is pointless. You’re no different than a cow or horse or chicken.
Hope, that is a very human thing, and something some people feel they should be able to expect. It then comes down to a first things first consideration. What’s first, survival or fighting for a reason to survive?
So, that’s what they fight for. And yes, it is certainly easier to hold when you’re young and more idealistic. I almost feel like it’s literally the job of young people, to challenge and push society in new directions so it doesn’t stagnate.
Regarding 30 vs 40 hours, I’m guessing that’s mostly Europeans, 30 hours is more standard over there, 40 hours is more standard over here. Which is actually “superior” is still up for debate. Personally, if I’m hourly give me 40, if I’m salary give me 30.
This case is even better than that with 4-8s while keeping the same pay.
