• @[email protected]
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    7 months ago

    Getting rid of parking spaces just creates frustration among commuters unless you provide real practical alternatives to driving — dedicated bike lanes; proper public transport that has enough seats, runs frequently and on time, and arrives close to where people are going; and/or formal car pooling.

    Bicycles aren’t practical for everyone. Public transport that requires passengers to stand for 20 minutes or more while crammed in like sardines; or public transport that runs every half-hour or more, isn’t useful — it actually discourages use of public transport. The only car pooling that I’ve seen work is when it’s organised within large companies so that people are going to the same destination and have something in common to talk about on the ride.

    Waving a magic wand and canceling car parks is most definitely not useful unless proper alternatives are available.

    Edit: Also, the plural of “minimum” is “minima“.

    • @TeaHands
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      167 months ago

      I despise car-reliant infrastructure as much as anyone but yeah, this has to be approached from all sides you can’t just punish people who use cars due to there being no alternative, and then STILL give them no alternative.

      That said, the article implies that this is in fact part of a larger plan and just removes one blocker, so I guess we’ll see if that ends up being true or not.

      • htrayl
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        47 months ago

        Yeah, don’t buy into the strawman. At no point did anyone say “let’s not do anything else”. Removing the parking minimum tax enables the rest of it.

    • HobbitFoot
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      157 months ago

      Yeah, but at minimum, it may be good to get rid of mandatory parking minimums and the prioritization of good parking next to mass transit.

      It doesn’t have to be a lot of pain, but a little can help.

      • htrayl
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        27 months ago

        Yup, this can easily be a 10 year + project.

      • JJROKCZ
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        37 months ago

        I work 20+ miles from where I live due to what I can afford. I’m not biking that lol I’d consider taking a train if I could take the bike to the train and from the train station to work. But I’d still be biking on busy roads not safe for bikers

        • htrayl
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          77 months ago

          Part of why you have to live so far is because parking minimums create vast amounts of space that sits empty 90% of the time.

          The other part is because of stringent zoning regulations that kill real housing options.

      • htrayl
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        37 months ago

        Oh the Urbanity had a great video on how a large portion of non-commuting trips can be made by bicycle.

      • @soloner
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        27 months ago

        Not when the weather is shit. You’re not gonna get humanity to get up for a bike ride and have to take a shower on arrival just to go get groceries, for example.

        There are a lot of different things that impact this, not just weather. The point isn’t about not picking one thing but to recognize it’s not feasible for everyone, full stop.

        • htrayl
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          7 months ago

          People do this all the time in communities that emphasize biking. Easily. And actually, it isn’t that difficult to do.

          Further, driving isn’t feasible for everyone, but driving is emphasized in such a way that alternatives cannot thrive.

          See: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uhx-26GfCBU

        • ProdigalFrogOPM
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          7 months ago

          If there was really solid bike infrastructure, I think covered electric tricycles capable of towing small capsule trailers could fill that gap fairly well. Something like this or this.

    • @grue
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      7 months ago

      Getting rid of parking spaces just creates frustration among commuters unless you provide real practical alternatives to driving

      Good. Let them be frustrated, because that’s how you get public support for real practical alternatives to driving!

      Quit bending over backwards to accommodate cars FIRST and the good urbanism will follow.

    • htrayl
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      7 months ago

      Adjusting parking minimums and reducing parking over time is absolutely the way to promote alternatives. It promotes higher better access to services (as land can be used for alternatives) and cheaper housing (meaning you can live closer to where you work).

      The reality is we are vastly overparked. Depending on where you live, there can be 8 TIMES the number of parking spaces than cars. You can pretty easily reduce parking by 1/3 and have near zero impact for drivers 99% of the time (maybe on black Friday you may need to take a ride).

      Also, just want to point out to the conservatives and libertarians in the crowd: Parking Minimums are a TAX. Worse, they are a tax that overly affects small business that is less likely to be able to get the support they need endure the taxes effect on their finances.

    • @[email protected]
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      27 months ago

      nothing can be done, so let’s just stick our heads in the sand and wail.

      oh wait, no, human behavior and values change over time. so we can use that to our advantage by not enabling selfish fucks who refuse to change with the times. No one’s expecting metro service to rural households, but also, it’s insane to expect your right to your own single person transport while the world is on freaking fire.

      so you do you bud, but understand the rest of society is going to change and you can fight it, but it won’t make you right.

  • @pathief
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    -107 months ago

    Because there’s already so much parking available, right?

    When I’m driving my mobility impaired grandma to her eye surgery, I want a parking space. Driving in major cities is already enough frustration, no need to add more.

    • @grue
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      197 months ago

      Because there’s already so much parking available, right?

      Yes, there literally is. Very often, parking minimums are set to accommodate peak parking demand and parking lots sit >50% empty 99% of the time.

      • bluGill
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        37 months ago

        Very often parking minimums are set to accommodate 120% of peak demand - that is even on the peak demand days there are many empty parking places.

      • @pathief
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        -37 months ago

        In your country, maybe!

        • @grue
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          67 months ago

          It’s definitely true of the US and Canada, and very likely Australia and New Zealand too. Maybe it’s not so excessive in the UK or Ireland, but still, most of the English-speaking countries have been infected by 1950s USA’s misguided influence.

    • LinkOpensChest.wav
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      127 months ago

      If there were sufficient public transport that was accessible, then you wouldn’t need to

      • admiralteal
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        167 months ago

        Also the cities that have the most investment in things like multimodal public transit are also the best cities to drive in. If you just genuinely want or need the car those cities are better then the cities designed for the car. Designing for the car creates the worst outcomes for the car.

        Parking requirements were established in an entirely unscientific way. And they’ve never really been updated.

        A city with a lot less parking would be one that was easier for Grandma to get around in even if she was getting around in it in a car. People with significant disabilities are pretty much the only ones who should expect parking when they go to places.

        • bluGill
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          17 months ago

          The best cities to drive in have populations of around 5000 people. Just enough population that there are things to drive to (very limited things, but still things), but not enough that there is congestion even during what passes for rush hour.

          • admiralteal
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            27 months ago

            Or places like Amsterdam that regularly rank top cities for drivers because they can afford good planning and maintenance on their svelt network. Because people who don’t want to drive just don’t.

            It’s easy for a small town like you described to have just brutal congestion. And they routinely do, in the US, when the whole town is a highway offramp wart off an artillery feeder road made up of commercial parks and box stores. They end up with chains of back to back streetlights and tons of left turns across traffic and are always a headache to get through - not to mention dangerous. And they’re the most universal sight in North America.

            • bluGill
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              17 months ago

              Not in a town of 5000. That sounds more like 50,000 people. At 5000 even a highway offramp cannot support many big box stores. Either that or a.suburb, which might have only 5000, but the drivers from the rest of the MSA visit and add up.

      • @pathief
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        7 months ago

        I’m definitely with you on that.

        Fewer parking spots is not a solution on its own… It’s a natural consequence of good public transportation network. No one really enjoys to spend hours on traffic to go anywhere.

        • bluGill
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          37 months ago

          It is a solution on its own. Many cities have far more parking than they need - even on “black friday” there are empty parking spaces. Those parking spaces could be redeveloped to something else (not all of them as that something else will also need parking)

          Of course the more you redevelop those empty parking spaces, the denser you get and the better chance is that public transit will work. The more people who arrive via transit the less parking spaces you need as well, which means more empty parking can de redeveloped.

      • @pathief
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        -47 months ago

        How are senior citizens with mobility difficulties an outlier? Are senior citizens in your country a minority or are they all joggers?

        • @grue
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          7 months ago

          He’s saying she should have a tag that hangs on the rear view mirror that can be put on your car when you drive her around (as opposed to a handicap license plate that can only be used with her car).

          • @pathief
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            07 months ago

            In my country only the car owner can apply for a disability permit. I’m the car owner, she doesn’t even have a driver’s license.

            • qantravon
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              27 months ago

              May I ask what country? Yes, the person who needs the placard applies for it, but in most places that can go on whatever car they ride in, so long as they’re actually in the car.

            • bluGill
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              17 months ago

              In my country a disabled person can get a tag that they hang in whatever car they are in to mark that car as able to use a handicapped space - they are expected to switch that tag between cars when they get a ride with someone else.

              If the handicapped person owns a car they can also get a special license plate on their car thus ensuring they don’t have to keep track of that tag.

      • @pathief
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        -47 months ago

        Since I’m the driver, I can’t park there.

          • @pathief
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            -17 months ago

            Not sure how it works in your country, maybe it’s different. Here you car needs to have a visible disability permit or you’ll get fined. Only the car owner can apply for the permit. I’m the car owner.

            • HobbitFoot
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              117 months ago

              My country allows for a placard that can move between cars as long as the handicapped person is there to provide identification if asked by the police.

    • haagch
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      47 months ago

      What if health insurance paid for necessary taxi rides? Not every mobility impaired grandma is lucky enough to have family members to be their personal chauffeurs.

    • @[email protected]
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      47 months ago

      I caregive as well. What we truly need are five-minute cities and things like tricycle taxies that I can safely take anywhere.

    • Jesse
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      17 months ago

      @pathief @ProdigalFrog it’s just physically not possible to build enough parking for everyone to always have a park. You have trouble finding a park because that’s just the physical reality. Adding more parking (like adding more lanes) doesn’t increase availability because of induced demand and the inherent inefficiency of cars.

      Reducing parking won’t reduce the parking available to you. Just as reducing the number of car lanes won’t reduce your ability to drive places.