When Roger Payne brought humpback whale songs into the public consciousness, it really got people caring about their survival a lot more and put an end to lots of whaling. It even eventually resulted in a substantial population increase, and this was just from the fact that they were singing. If we could actually decode meaning from another species, it seems almost for sure that they would get some meaningful rights. At least, I would sure hope so.
An African Grey Parrot asked an existential question (“What color am I?”) [1] and a gorilla signed that ‘cats are bad because they eat birds,’ after witnessing a cat kill and eat a bird (that is a moral belief/judgment/statement) [2]
Even lab rats show a capacity for empathy [3], and they will stop pulling a lever to feed themselves if they see the rat in the subsequent cage is electrocuted. [4]
Monkeys (and other animals) can understand the concept inequality. [5] Inequality is a moral concept, indicating that the animal has a capacity for complex social relationships and understanding.
Monkeys were taught the concept of currency (in the form of silver discs) and soon after, they unexpectedly developed prostitution on their own. [6] Monkeys like this are the primates of lower intelligence, mind you.
I think we should be more respectful of life, rather than subjecting it to such mass exploitation and suffering. But even with all of the evidence that animals are moral creatures, most people don’t seem to care.
What a great comment. You make a fantastic point, I really appreciate you making it.
Given things like the whale population increase [1], rights for elephants in a US city [2] , personhood status for rivers and their ecosystems in India [3] , and billions invested in lab meat [4] I like to think that we are on a, albeit slight, trajectory of an improved situation for the other animals on the planet.
However, there is a 69% average decline in wild vertebrate populations in the last 50 years [5] , and there isn’t exactly much of a push to bring an end to factory farms, so I don’t know if things are getting any better or not.
I do like to think that as technology improves, and we come closer to understanding the minds of other species, so will our ability and desire to treat them more fairly. Maybe food tech will help as well, if people can buy lab meat that is indistinguishable from farmed meat, or rather meat that is only distinguishable by its lack of drugs and antibiotics, maybe we will opt to cause less suffering.
I expanded a lot on the content from that comment of mine on my blog post here. Figured you might appreciate it/like to have ammo when arguing with jackasses online haha.
I just finished it. That was fantastic! You did an amazing job of presenting the case and with so many wonderful sources. I’m very impressed, it is great to get so many of the insights that many people are unaware of all package so nicely together. I am going to make it its own post. Thanks again for making and sharing it!
This looks fantastic! I sure do appreciate it, thanks so much for writing it and thinking of me. I can’t wait to get a chance to read the whole thing. Thanks again!
Edit:
I just saw your article “Defining the Path to Radicalization”. Ive been listening to Jon Ronson’s series “Things Fell Apart” lately, seems like there may be a lot of similar subject matter in them.
Thank you! Getting all of the information together in one place has been my goal. I started my blog because I would find myself having the same debates repeatedly with people online, and thought I’d devote time to making well-cited arguments once, rather than repeated comments.
You might think I’m crazy for my UAP write-up tho… That one makes me feel like Dale Gribble haha. I didn’t believe any of that until I tried to suspend my disbelief and started to look into it. For what it’s worth, it convinced my brother-in-law who has a Master’s in aerospace engineering.
And I’ll definitely check out the podcast. Thanks for the recommendation.
That’s really a great idea. I hadn’t really considered making blog posts as a way to organize and gather up my thoughts. You make a very appealing case for the idea, though.
I’m curious to see what conclusions you’ve come to in that second post. It is quite a different area of interest.
I once had an infestation of mice. I eventually killed all of them. The last one had physical and mental problems. He had weird stubby legs, and he was really stupid. He ran in straight lines. I got him by simply placing a trap in front of him and he walked right into it.
That mouse had clearly never foraged. Couldn’t forage. But he was a large adult and had been well fed.
Whales don’t seem to have a problem with that at all. I was being facetious and referring to whales as a terminology in the gaming community and perhaps some may have simply regarded this as a commentary on capitalism. Though I do also think changes are sorely needed there as well.
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When Roger Payne brought humpback whale songs into the public consciousness, it really got people caring about their survival a lot more and put an end to lots of whaling. It even eventually resulted in a substantial population increase, and this was just from the fact that they were singing. If we could actually decode meaning from another species, it seems almost for sure that they would get some meaningful rights. At least, I would sure hope so.
An African Grey Parrot asked an existential question (“What color am I?”) [1] and a gorilla signed that ‘cats are bad because they eat birds,’ after witnessing a cat kill and eat a bird (that is a moral belief/judgment/statement) [2]
Even lab rats show a capacity for empathy [3], and they will stop pulling a lever to feed themselves if they see the rat in the subsequent cage is electrocuted. [4]
Monkeys (and other animals) can understand the concept inequality. [5] Inequality is a moral concept, indicating that the animal has a capacity for complex social relationships and understanding.
Monkeys were taught the concept of currency (in the form of silver discs) and soon after, they unexpectedly developed prostitution on their own. [6] Monkeys like this are the primates of lower intelligence, mind you.
I think we should be more respectful of life, rather than subjecting it to such mass exploitation and suffering. But even with all of the evidence that animals are moral creatures, most people don’t seem to care.
What a great comment. You make a fantastic point, I really appreciate you making it.
Given things like the whale population increase [1], rights for elephants in a US city [2] , personhood status for rivers and their ecosystems in India [3] , and billions invested in lab meat [4] I like to think that we are on a, albeit slight, trajectory of an improved situation for the other animals on the planet.
However, there is a 69% average decline in wild vertebrate populations in the last 50 years [5] , and there isn’t exactly much of a push to bring an end to factory farms, so I don’t know if things are getting any better or not.
I do like to think that as technology improves, and we come closer to understanding the minds of other species, so will our ability and desire to treat them more fairly. Maybe food tech will help as well, if people can buy lab meat that is indistinguishable from farmed meat, or rather meat that is only distinguishable by its lack of drugs and antibiotics, maybe we will opt to cause less suffering.
I expanded a lot on the content from that comment of mine on my blog post here. Figured you might appreciate it/like to have ammo when arguing with jackasses online haha.
https://lemmy.world/post/10705069
I just finished it. That was fantastic! You did an amazing job of presenting the case and with so many wonderful sources. I’m very impressed, it is great to get so many of the insights that many people are unaware of all package so nicely together. I am going to make it its own post. Thanks again for making and sharing it!
This looks fantastic! I sure do appreciate it, thanks so much for writing it and thinking of me. I can’t wait to get a chance to read the whole thing. Thanks again!
Edit: I just saw your article “Defining the Path to Radicalization”. Ive been listening to Jon Ronson’s series “Things Fell Apart” lately, seems like there may be a lot of similar subject matter in them.
Thank you! Getting all of the information together in one place has been my goal. I started my blog because I would find myself having the same debates repeatedly with people online, and thought I’d devote time to making well-cited arguments once, rather than repeated comments.
You might think I’m crazy for my UAP write-up tho… That one makes me feel like Dale Gribble haha. I didn’t believe any of that until I tried to suspend my disbelief and started to look into it. For what it’s worth, it convinced my brother-in-law who has a Master’s in aerospace engineering.
And I’ll definitely check out the podcast. Thanks for the recommendation.
That’s really a great idea. I hadn’t really considered making blog posts as a way to organize and gather up my thoughts. You make a very appealing case for the idea, though.
I’m curious to see what conclusions you’ve come to in that second post. It is quite a different area of interest.
deleted by creator
deleted by creator
I once had an infestation of mice. I eventually killed all of them. The last one had physical and mental problems. He had weird stubby legs, and he was really stupid. He ran in straight lines. I got him by simply placing a trap in front of him and he walked right into it.
That mouse had clearly never foraged. Couldn’t forage. But he was a large adult and had been well fed.
deleted by creator
I don’t believe in giving rights to whales. If they want it so bad then they can just buy it.
Sorry but your rights are now only available on a subscription.
Whales don’t seem to have a problem with that at all. I was being facetious and referring to whales as a terminology in the gaming community and perhaps some may have simply regarded this as a commentary on capitalism. Though I do also think changes are sorely needed there as well.
Minimum wage for whales?
UW BIHere is the pre-paper.