• @OccamsRazer
    link
    -54 months ago

    Auth left is when progressives are willing to force their ideals on others, whether those ideals are social or fiscal. Forcing people to conform to your ideology is not a trait inherent to either side of the political aisle. For instance, the cultural revolution was a progressive authoritarian movement where wealth and power was stripped by force from people. If you really wanted to, you could make an argument about whether that was justified or not, but no matter how you spin it, it’s authoritarian.

    • Veraxus
      link
      7
      edit-2
      4 months ago

      Auth left is when progressives are willing to force their ideals on others, whether those ideals are social or fiscal.

      No, that is not how any of that works. See the tolerance paradox.

      the cultural revolution

      …was rightist.

      no matter how you spin it, it’s authoritarian.

      Correct. Rightism is authoritarian. You keep describing rightism while trying attribute it to the left. This is usually the result of blindly accepting Tankie (extreme right) propaganda without taking the time to consider the actual definitions and requirements of leftism and leftist terminology.

      • @OccamsRazer
        link
        -34 months ago

        Authoritarian: “favoring or enforcing strict obedience to authority, especially that of the government, at the expense of personal freedom.”

        So freedom and tolerance is the opposite of authoritarianism. And yes, the paradox of tolerance means that it doesn’t work to be completely tolerant because then the intolerant will eliminate or overrule the tolerant.

        The conclusion from this is that some level of authoritarianism is required to enforce some level of freedom, which are inherently conflicting. That’s why it’s a paradox.

        So are you saying that use of force, when justified by the paradox of intolerance, is not right wing? Or are you saying that even progressive movements have elements of rightism?

        • Veraxus
          link
          64 months ago

          No. By your own listed definition, authority and authoritarian are different terms. You can have an authority without authoritarianism. You are conflating terminology, and I’m starting to suspect you are doing so in bad faith to perpetuate the tiresome “both sides” fallacy.

          • @OccamsRazer
            link
            -54 months ago

            You can’t have an authority without some level of authoritarianism.

            • @[email protected]
              link
              fedilink
              54 months ago

              I am an authroity in electrocuting myself with car batteries, I can say with perfect authority backed by experience that it hurts like a motherfucker. Wheres the fucken authoritarianism in that statement, sure theres some amount of absolutism in that I am assuming that everyone or atleast most people find electrocution of that type painful. But thats why we have peer review and consensus, get a couple other dumbfucks who arced their car batteries and we’ll find what the consensus is.

              Authority is fully seperated from authoritarianism, they simply share a vague as fuck root concept.

              • @ameancow
                link
                24 months ago

                I cannot figure out what that user is on about or what they are trying to warn against, I have read all their comments and it’s just a lot of weird hand-wavy vibes, I am like 90% sure they’re some kind of anti-woke-head trying to seed the idea that equality is the same as tyranny or some nonsense that people get hung up on obsessively.

              • @OccamsRazer
                link
                -24 months ago

                I’m referring to someone having Authority to uphold laws and issue punishment for not following them. Authority in the context I intended is synonymous with power rather than expertise as in your example.

    • @Fedizen
      link
      3
      edit-2
      4 months ago

      From who by who? Every law strips wealth and power from somebody. Don’t want people to murder each other? Ypu have to take power from murderers and finance that intervention with public coffers, putting a burden on everyone.

      You’re oversimplifying what authoritarianism is and what the gradations of “force” are.

      • @OccamsRazer
        link
        14 months ago

        Yes I am simplifying it to make a point, since some people in here don’t seem to understand the concept. To elaborate a little more along those simplified lines; Every law is authoritarian. More and stricter laws are more authoritarian. Authoritarianism is a matter of extent. Some is necessary, but too much is bad, and it doesn’t matter if the bad authoritarianism is enforcing left or right wing ideals, it’s bad either way.

        But yes authoritarianism usually refers to the point at which it is excessive and bad. That point can be hard to determine though because it is a subjective term. A good example would be covid. At what point did mandates become authoritarian? Or at what point WOULD they have been authoritarian? The answer to that varies by an incredibly wide margin depending on who you ask. Some say that two weeks to slow the spread or stopping flights from known covid hotspots was an overreach. Others were willing to round up unvaccinated and put them in camps.