Senate health committee chair Bernie Sanders has called a vote to subpoena the chief of Novo Nordisk’s U.S. division over the company’s pricing of Ozempic and Wegovy.
I’m ok with it being expensive for non-diabetes cases because we do NOT want people using this for weight loss. There are already issues with intestinal linings weakening and other complications.
Folks: there’s no shortcut to losing weight.
Edit: overly simplified. It’s not just for diabetes but my larger point is legitimate medical cases. This of course includes some cases of obesity, and I’m glad it’s helped folks who need it.
You do realize that’s exactly what Wegovy is, right? Ozempic was being prescribed off-label for weight loss so much, it was severely impacting supply for diabetics who needed it to manage their diabetes. They put the drug through a second round of FDA testing to get approval as a weight loss drug.
And, as someone taking Wegovy for weight loss… it’s no shortcut. It absolutely makes it easier to control your appetite but the side effects are non-trivial. I’ve struggled with my weight my entire life and I feel lucky I wasn’t heavier when I started, but before this I’ve been anywhere between 235 and 320 up and down for the last 15 years. This medication makes me feel, finally, like I’ve got a shot at losing the weight and getting it to a safe level.
Now… if you’re talking about the people who want to take it for 2 months to lose some vanity weight before beach season… I absolutely agree.
I am specifically talking about the massive surge in people using it to shed vanity weight. I completely agree it has legitimate weight management uses and I’m glad it’s helped you.
It’s very common for people who are obese to have prediabetic A1C levels show up in their blood work.
There are absolutely side effects and they’re different for different people but some common short term ones are nausea, vomiting, gassiness, stomach discomfort, and fatigue.
I asked mine kinda like “whats the deal with these new medications?” Explaining I knew only a bit about the difference between the two, higher dose weight-loss (wegovy) VS. meant for diabetics (ozempic).
The poor soul in the waiting room behind me… Must have waited 30 minutes beyond the initial appointment because my doctor was so excited passionate about what these drugs can help with. He talked about a full hour about it.
My takeaways (I’m not a doctor or with a perfect memory, so I might get this a little wrong):
He somewhat likened our ‘automation systems’ in the brain to can’t being able to discern between ‘starvation mode’ and ‘plentiful bounty of food’ mode. So starving yourself for example to lose weight can still chemically cause your body to ‘hold’ weight for example; sensing that you’re at threat of death if it continues for an extended time. Likewise when food is abundant, it can still hold weight because it’s protecting you from future potential death by starvation. These changes are not something we can consciously control for good reason. Imagine you can stop your own heart with a thought.
I’m sure there is much more to it, but this ‘automation system’ in the brain sticks out.
Lastly, he said that if we wait a bit there will be competing drugs and ‘older version’ of these new drugs which become out of patent… And cheaper. So I’ll go talk to him in the autumn for a refresher and update.
For that drug yes. He did mention that there was something older, which these new ones are based on, which are coming out of patent. I believe it was liraglutide (victoza). Still seems to require daily injections I believe 😑 but for people who may need this, it’s maybe worth it. I used to take daily injections for allergies (slowly strengthened over time) and others get it for diabetes anyway. especially if it is cheaper and with generics.
Ah yeah, I know what you’re referring to, and yes I think you’re right, it’s daily and I don’t think as effective but when your options are limited by insert rant about US “healthcare” here probably better than nothing.
Not sure why you’re being downvoted so much, it’s an interesting point. If you make it too cheap and it has a lot of side effects, you are t really saving anyone money. You’re not even improving their health in the long run.
That being said, I have no idea how bad the long term effects are.
Except it does seem rather odd to keep a medicine from people whose lives it could save (obesity causes a lot more problems than diabetes), because someone somewhere might try to abuse it. Frankly, if you want to voluntarily abuse a drug, great. My interest is in relieving the suffering caused by obesity, not protecting people from the Darwin awards.
Imagine saying that “insulin should be expensive because some people use it for suicide and it has side-effects.”
I didn’t think it was an abuse of the medication, I thought the comment was just discussing side effects and potential complications from regular use of it
That’s not what I said. I’m saying we don’t want this being widely available and prescribed like tic tacs because people think it’ll make them look like a magazine cover. The side effects can be considerable. A doctor needs to be involved if you think you need ozempic, although sadly many are all too happy to rubber stamp it. Still, it’s being used as a shortcut by many and it’s not good for them.
If a doctor prescribes it for real reasons I respect that but right now it’s a celebrity weight loss “hack”
My friend has had 3 patients walk because she won’t prescribe ozempic to them. They are not obese or have some major medical consideration. They want to use it as a substitute for a diet that they don’t even really need.
The whole prescription system is a rent-seeking scheme that enriches various middlemen, including your friend.
How far have we fallen as a civilization that people have to meekly seek permission to take drugs? Bodily autonomy doesn’t extend to medicine, is that it? The unfathomable hypocrisy.
Why not? Is addiction illegal? At most I’d say education about the medication should be more available.
Edit obviously addiction is terrible but it’s a slippery slope to say " you can’t take this drug because of addiction risks" into “you can’t take this drug because I find it morally wrong”
There are compounding pharmacies in every major city in the US who can provide generic versions of these medicines.
They’re not going to be covered by insurance that way and they’re typically still not cheap exactly but they are cheaper than the brand names and available as an oral medication in addition to the self administered weekly shots.
The only “shortage” has been of the proprietary injectors used by the major brand names.
I’m ok with it being expensive for non-diabetes cases because we do NOT want people using this for weight loss. There are already issues with intestinal linings weakening and other complications.
Folks: there’s no shortcut to losing weight.
Edit: overly simplified. It’s not just for diabetes but my larger point is legitimate medical cases. This of course includes some cases of obesity, and I’m glad it’s helped folks who need it.
You do realize that’s exactly what Wegovy is, right? Ozempic was being prescribed off-label for weight loss so much, it was severely impacting supply for diabetics who needed it to manage their diabetes. They put the drug through a second round of FDA testing to get approval as a weight loss drug.
And, as someone taking Wegovy for weight loss… it’s no shortcut. It absolutely makes it easier to control your appetite but the side effects are non-trivial. I’ve struggled with my weight my entire life and I feel lucky I wasn’t heavier when I started, but before this I’ve been anywhere between 235 and 320 up and down for the last 15 years. This medication makes me feel, finally, like I’ve got a shot at losing the weight and getting it to a safe level.
Now… if you’re talking about the people who want to take it for 2 months to lose some vanity weight before beach season… I absolutely agree.
I am specifically talking about the massive surge in people using it to shed vanity weight. I completely agree it has legitimate weight management uses and I’m glad it’s helped you.
Cool. It’s been helpful, but hot damn… if you don’t pay for it occasionally if you eat the wrong thing…
How did you approach your doctor about it? I’m in the same boat.
I’ve been thinking about getting it but I didn’t want to rush in case there are side affects they find out about.
It’s very common for people who are obese to have prediabetic A1C levels show up in their blood work.
There are absolutely side effects and they’re different for different people but some common short term ones are nausea, vomiting, gassiness, stomach discomfort, and fatigue.
It’s still worth it for a lot of people.
I asked mine kinda like “whats the deal with these new medications?” Explaining I knew only a bit about the difference between the two, higher dose weight-loss (wegovy) VS. meant for diabetics (ozempic).
The poor soul in the waiting room behind me… Must have waited 30 minutes beyond the initial appointment because my doctor was so
excitedpassionate about what these drugs can help with. He talked about a full hour about it.My takeaways (I’m not a doctor or with a perfect memory, so I might get this a little wrong):
He somewhat likened our ‘automation systems’ in the brain to can’t being able to discern between ‘starvation mode’ and ‘plentiful bounty of food’ mode. So starving yourself for example to lose weight can still chemically cause your body to ‘hold’ weight for example; sensing that you’re at threat of death if it continues for an extended time. Likewise when food is abundant, it can still hold weight because it’s protecting you from future potential death by starvation. These changes are not something we can consciously control for good reason. Imagine you can stop your own heart with a thought.
I’m sure there is much more to it, but this ‘automation system’ in the brain sticks out.
Lastly, he said that if we wait a bit there will be competing drugs and ‘older version’ of these new drugs which become out of patent… And cheaper. So I’ll go talk to him in the autumn for a refresher and update.
To your last point, according to Hari, generics for semaglutide should be available in 2032.
For that drug yes. He did mention that there was something older, which these new ones are based on, which are coming out of patent. I believe it was liraglutide (victoza). Still seems to require daily injections I believe 😑 but for people who may need this, it’s maybe worth it. I used to take daily injections for allergies (slowly strengthened over time) and others get it for diabetes anyway. especially if it is cheaper and with generics.
Ah yeah, I know what you’re referring to, and yes I think you’re right, it’s daily and I don’t think as effective but when your options are limited by insert rant about US “healthcare” here probably better than nothing.
You need to read Magic Pill by Johann Hari. There are pros and cons and he is very good at explaining both sides.
Not sure why you’re being downvoted so much, it’s an interesting point. If you make it too cheap and it has a lot of side effects, you are t really saving anyone money. You’re not even improving their health in the long run.
That being said, I have no idea how bad the long term effects are.
Except it does seem rather odd to keep a medicine from people whose lives it could save (obesity causes a lot more problems than diabetes), because someone somewhere might try to abuse it. Frankly, if you want to voluntarily abuse a drug, great. My interest is in relieving the suffering caused by obesity, not protecting people from the Darwin awards.
Imagine saying that “insulin should be expensive because some people use it for suicide and it has side-effects.”
I didn’t think it was an abuse of the medication, I thought the comment was just discussing side effects and potential complications from regular use of it
There is a lot abuse. Wealthy people shop around for doctors to prescribe because they want to lose weight with a shot.
It’s more than a shot. It changes your appetite.
It’s a shot that changes your appetite (among other effects). Not sure why what I said contradicts that or implies otherwise.
Yes, and has practically no side effects. They should consider putting it in the water supply.
Please tell me you aren’t one of those anti-fluoride people.
I just suggested putting a medicine in the water supply. Why would I be against putting a mineral in the water supply?
And as a result, only the wealthy should be able to afford it?
That’s not what I said. I’m saying we don’t want this being widely available and prescribed like tic tacs because people think it’ll make them look like a magazine cover. The side effects can be considerable. A doctor needs to be involved if you think you need ozempic, although sadly many are all too happy to rubber stamp it. Still, it’s being used as a shortcut by many and it’s not good for them.
If a doctor prescribes it for real reasons I respect that but right now it’s a celebrity weight loss “hack”
My friend has had 3 patients walk because she won’t prescribe ozempic to them. They are not obese or have some major medical consideration. They want to use it as a substitute for a diet that they don’t even really need.
The whole prescription system is a rent-seeking scheme that enriches various middlemen, including your friend.
How far have we fallen as a civilization that people have to meekly seek permission to take drugs? Bodily autonomy doesn’t extend to medicine, is that it? The unfathomable hypocrisy.
I don’t think it’s perfect but I can’t agree with people being able to walk around buying any medication at anytime without any oversight.
So are you a religious authoritarian or a garden variety fascist that you feel entitled to dictate to me what I can and cannot do with my body?
no clue how this is religious, which also I am not
so you’re down for people to grab oxy off the shelf I take it?
Why not? Is addiction illegal? At most I’d say education about the medication should be more available.
Edit obviously addiction is terrible but it’s a slippery slope to say " you can’t take this drug because of addiction risks" into “you can’t take this drug because I find it morally wrong”
deleted by creator
There are compounding pharmacies in every major city in the US who can provide generic versions of these medicines.
They’re not going to be covered by insurance that way and they’re typically still not cheap exactly but they are cheaper than the brand names and available as an oral medication in addition to the self administered weekly shots.
The only “shortage” has been of the proprietary injectors used by the major brand names.
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Hey mods, the above comment was plenty “civil”.
You’re turning this place into the same type of baby proof bull crap the other place became.