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- cross-posted to:
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The US swimmer Lia Thomas, who rose to global prominence after becoming the first transgender athlete to win a NCAA college title in March 2022, has lost a legal case against World Aquatics at the court of arbitration for sport – and with it any hopes of making next month’s Paris Olympics.
The 25-year-old also remains barred from swimming in the female category after failing to overturn rules introduced by swimming’s governing body in the summer of 2022, which prohibit anyone who has undergone “any part of male puberty” from the female category.
Thomas had argued that those rules should be declared “invalid and unlawful” as they were contrary to the Olympic charter and the World Aquatics constitution.
However, in a 24-page decision, the court concluded that Thomas was “simply not entitled to engage with eligibility to compete in WA competitions” as someone who was no longer a member of US swimming.
The news was welcomed by World Aquatics, who hailed it as “a major step forward in our efforts to protect women’s sport”.
The categories are gender segregated. It’s not that no woman would ever do so or want to; it’s that banning a woman from women’s sports is saying that she’s not a woman. That’s the very point of the category to begin with. Forcing a woman to compete in men’s category is declaring her to be a man, which is something the overwhelming majority of women would not stand for.
Recall the controversy surrounding Caster Semenya. She was very much declared not to be a woman by an international sporting organization.
You’re not arguing in good faith by having something so absolute as:
What would you classify banning her from women’s swimming but not from swimming in general if not insinuating that she’s not a woman? I don’t think it’s the one you replied to that’s arguing in bad faith…
The categories are sex segregated, not gender segregated. The names of the competitions are from a time when most people didn’t know there was a difference between man/male and woman/female. So when it’s called like “men’s sprint” the actual meaning is “male’s sprint”. If you wanted to make the official names of the competitions to be called “male’s” and “female’s” instead of “men’s” and “women’s” then I would totally try to help you in that movement
Sex and gender are effectively the same thing for this conversation. We consistently refer to female athletes as women and the terms are entirely interchangeable here. Sex is also a socially constructed category based around certain anatomies and characteristics. Gender is assigned the same way sex is. Sex is not the hardline objective reality it’s being treated as here. Women with CAIS are not forbidden from “female sports”. Similarly, women with PCOS who have high T are not banned from “female sports”.
I’m not male. No part of me is male. My legal sex has been changed. If we’re separating people into male and female, I’m placed into the female group.
You’re directly contradicting the argument that every trans activist has been making for decades by saying that sex and gender are “effectively the same thing”. Is that really what you want to be doing here?
It’s objectively the truth that sex is another class category created by humans to sort people and enforce a hierarchy of sex. That argument (trans women are male women) was adopted to appeal to cisgender people.
I’m female, I am a woman. I’m not male. My legal sex is female.
This is patently false. It was a category to distinguish between two observable variations of human. The category of man/woman existed in the annals of history far beyond what we know today. Before we were humans, we knew instinctively what a man/woman was. You see these systems in herding species already. Don’t give me this “we created this division just so we could dunk on others” bullcrap.
But there are more than 2 observable variations of humans.
There have also been many cultures with more 2 than sexes/genders (the difference is literally 0 prior to the 50s).
And animals have genitals but they do not have conceptions of sex. They don’t abstract categories from physical attributes they just recognize and respond to the bodies around them.
So what do you call a baby that has a penis but isn’t old enough to tell you whether they are a boy or a girl?
A baby. Are it’s genitals relevant somehow?
What if a women wanted to compete?
How is it ok for one gender, in your view, but not ok for the other?
To compete with men? Afaik most organizations do not have rules explicity banning women from men’s sports. Not sure what you’re talking about.
I’m asking because you brought it up.
I’m genuinely not sure what you’re asking. Your comment doesn’t make sense.
I answered the question you asked initially in my second comment.
Lmao ok then. Guess this conversation is over. Good luck out there I guess.
Not sure how you not making sense is my fault exactly, but okay.
Not sure why this is being down-voted. Most organizations do not have rules saying women can’t compete in men’s sports.
Maybe cross that made up bridge when you get to it? So far this hasn’t happened and is only being imagined as a strawman to argue in favour of this transphobic discrimination.
There aren’t any women at all that want to compete? Interesting. Guess that’s why OP is so sure of themselves.
So are you OK with forcing a trans man to compete against men in sports?
I mean where else would you want them to compete? Are there trans men out there demanding to compete in women’s sports? If sports is sex or gender segregated than yeah they should compete with men.