Like, the largest demographic of victims were Jewish, but there was a bunch of other groups getting the same treatment.
The difference is LGBTQ was hated by both sides. After Alan Turing contributed more to stopping the nazis than probably any other single person, England chemically castrated him due to his sexual preference which likely contributed to his suicide.
Fascists always prioritize the easiest targets first
The war wasn’t fought to stop genocide of any group, it was because Germany and their allies kept invading and attacking other countries.
This is what I’m complaining about.
People learn a feel good version of why WW2 happened in school and run with it. But it’s not really that accurate, it’s just what we tell kids in school.
Eh, FDR and other US politicians wanted to enter the war for various reasons, including the oppression of Jews, the attack on Pearl Harbor was a convenient spark for them. (Not saying they plotted it or anything, just they desired to join the war before that, and it gave them a reason to convince the more (largely) pacifism minded public
There is no doubt that the US was going to enter the war before Pearl Harbor. Not only was American aid to the Allies massive (and increasing month by month), but the U.S. was already effectively at war with Germany - by mid-1941 American ships were escorting British convoys with orders to shoot German ships/aircraft on sight. There’s a reason Hitler declared war on the US when he had no obligation to. Germany and the US were already in direct conflict.
While it did cross into the majority of Americans (68%) thinking we should join the Allies, it was due to the belief Germany wouldn’t stop with Europe.
Interventionists believed the United States did have good reasons to get involved in World War II, particularly in Europe. The democracies of Western Europe, they argued, were a critical line of defense against Hitler’s fast-growing strength. If no European power remained as a check against Nazi Germany, the United States could become isolated in a world where the seas and a significant amount of territory and resources were controlled by a single powerful dictator. It would be, as President Franklin Delano Roosevelt put it, like “living at the point of a gun,” and the buffer provided by the Pacific and Atlantic would be useless.
Pearl Harbor settled the debate on if America would be left alone.
Probably easier to stick with “at the very least, freed them”.
Pearl Harbor was the rallying cry that brought America together (mostly) to fight the Axis powers. Prior to that, isolationist (and Anti-Semitic) groups such as the America First Committee were growing in popularity. To say America was fighting for the Jews in WW2 may be technically correct based on who was responsible for the Holocaust, but it was more the byproduct of who America’s enemies were at the time, rather than being a primary motivator. Coming in as the savior to a population being persecuted is rarely the real reason wars are fought.
Jewish people made up about half the victims, and was the only demographic who then got their own country given to them after it was stolen from the indengious population.
The concept of there being an “indigenous population” on a land that humanity has occupied and fought over for 10000 years is laughable. And stolen? They lost a world war.
The concept of there being an “indigenous population” on a land that humanity has occupied and fought over for 10000 years is laughable
Hold up…
You don’t think Africa has any indigenous populations?
You think a random collection of Europeans can say they deserve that land and take it?
Like, that’s apartheid South Africa mate… Even modern South Africa doesn’t defend that anymore, which is why they’re fighting Israel in the courts today.
And stolen? They lost a world war.
What?
Are you saying that you think the native population of Israel fought with the Nazis?
Who told you that?
I don’t think you’re intentionally spreading misinformation, but that’s what you’re doing even if you somehow believe it
Not only are you unaware of the Ottoman Empire and its role in the World War 1 but you also forget that said land has been controlled by almost a dozen different empires several of which wipe out the previous inhabitants and installed their own.
When Rome first took it over, yeah, lots of people (Jewish and otherwise) were killed. But they werent just Jewish, they were also descended ethnically from people who had lived there for centuries.
Converting to a religion doesn’t magically change your ethnicity…
But that’s the only way what you’re saying makes any sense.
Side note: Germans and German speaking people were slaughtered. The story tellers forgot to tell us about that. Also we might have been misled with a lot of those images presented as Jewish victims.
After reading further past the imagery of snow white and crying about the parallels between that and his death and my own experiences as a gay man, thank you. It very well could have been the poorly stored electroplating chemicals stored in his home. He habitually ate an apple before bed and often discarded it not fully eaten. Coroner’s notes, when examined by a modern eye, may be more consistent with inhalation than ingestion. He had been off estrogen for a year. He had made a list of things to complete when he went back to work after the holiday weekend.
I should make sure my chemicals are stored properly.
Yep! There’s a lot of things that make it entirely possible it was an accident. I also want to clarify, I’m not discounting how abusive the government was to him- just saying we really don’t know for sure what happened
And LGBTQ were also victims of their genocide.
Like, the largest demographic of victims were Jewish, but there was a bunch of other groups getting the same treatment.
The difference is LGBTQ was hated by both sides. After Alan Turing contributed more to stopping the nazis than probably any other single person, England chemically castrated him due to his sexual preference which likely contributed to his suicide.
Fascists always prioritize the easiest targets first
The jews were also maligned by both sides.
One side fought for them. Or, at the very least, freed them when they won.
What?
The war wasn’t fought to stop genocide of any group, it was because Germany and their allies kept invading and attacking other countries.
This is what I’m complaining about.
People learn a feel good version of why WW2 happened in school and run with it. But it’s not really that accurate, it’s just what we tell kids in school.
So, as I said, at the very least they were freed?
Eh, FDR and other US politicians wanted to enter the war for various reasons, including the oppression of Jews, the attack on Pearl Harbor was a convenient spark for them. (Not saying they plotted it or anything, just they desired to join the war before that, and it gave them a reason to convince the more (largely) pacifism minded public
And some wanted to join the Axis for the same reasons…
Not just their treatment of Jewish people, but all the groups.
The nazis inspiration for their treatment of targeted demographics was literally American treatment of slaves and indigenous peoples after all.
America didn’t join WW2 cause we wanted to wear a cape, the sole reason was Pearl Harbor.
to quote an old reddit comment:
There is no doubt that the US was going to enter the war before Pearl Harbor. Not only was American aid to the Allies massive (and increasing month by month), but the U.S. was already effectively at war with Germany - by mid-1941 American ships were escorting British convoys with orders to shoot German ships/aircraft on sight. There’s a reason Hitler declared war on the US when he had no obligation to. Germany and the US were already in direct conflict.
More to the point, collaborative war planning had been going on long before Pearl Harbor. [The ABC-1](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/U.S.–British_Staff_Conference_(ABC–1\)) Conference for example outlined the broad strokes of Allied strategy for the rest of the war.
There is no reasonable scenario where the US would not have entered the war.
…
Yes, there were plans for if we joined before we joined.
Like, that’s what a functional government does, plan things in case they happen.
Only planning for things you know will happen is absolute insanity.
https://www.nationalww2museum.org/war/articles/great-debate
While it did cross into the majority of Americans (68%) thinking we should join the Allies, it was due to the belief Germany wouldn’t stop with Europe.
Pearl Harbor settled the debate on if America would be left alone.
It wasn’t for “various reasons”.
… Yes for average Americans, yes. Again, I’m talking about FDR and other political leaders
… Yes for average Americans, yes. Again, I’m talking about FDR and other political leaders
Probably easier to stick with “at the very least, freed them”.
Pearl Harbor was the rallying cry that brought America together (mostly) to fight the Axis powers. Prior to that, isolationist (and Anti-Semitic) groups such as the America First Committee were growing in popularity. To say America was fighting for the Jews in WW2 may be technically correct based on who was responsible for the Holocaust, but it was more the byproduct of who America’s enemies were at the time, rather than being a primary motivator. Coming in as the savior to a population being persecuted is rarely the real reason wars are fought.
And the only demographic of victims to get their own country…
To get them out of europe. Anti-semitism was not a purely german thing, they were just the first to resort to genocide.
No, they were not the first. They just the ones who did it so thoroughly we came up with a name for it.
Yes…
I’m sorry, what are you confused about?
Jewish people made up about half the victims, and was the only demographic who then got their own country given to them after it was stolen from the indengious population.
The concept of there being an “indigenous population” on a land that humanity has occupied and fought over for 10000 years is laughable. And stolen? They lost a world war.
Hold up…
You don’t think Africa has any indigenous populations?
You think a random collection of Europeans can say they deserve that land and take it?
Like, that’s apartheid South Africa mate… Even modern South Africa doesn’t defend that anymore, which is why they’re fighting Israel in the courts today.
What?
Are you saying that you think the native population of Israel fought with the Nazis?
Who told you that?
I don’t think you’re intentionally spreading misinformation, but that’s what you’re doing even if you somehow believe it
Not only are you unaware of the Ottoman Empire and its role in the World War 1 but you also forget that said land has been controlled by almost a dozen different empires several of which wipe out the previous inhabitants and installed their own.
They didn’t just wipe out the people who lived there and move in new people…
Large scale immigration didn’t start happening till ethe mid 1800s when ethically European and Jewish people started immigrating enmass.
Partly because the Ottoman empire was friendly to ethnic and religious minorities.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographic_history_of_Jerusalem
When Rome first took it over, yeah, lots of people (Jewish and otherwise) were killed. But they werent just Jewish, they were also descended ethnically from people who had lived there for centuries.
Converting to a religion doesn’t magically change your ethnicity…
But that’s the only way what you’re saying makes any sense.
Side note: Germans and German speaking people were slaughtered. The story tellers forgot to tell us about that. Also we might have been misled with a lot of those images presented as Jewish victims.
remember, it is still unknown if it was actually a suicide at all
Let’s just chalk it up to Government murder either way!
His mom believed it was an accident, I have no clue just want to clarify it’s not settled
After reading further past the imagery of snow white and crying about the parallels between that and his death and my own experiences as a gay man, thank you. It very well could have been the poorly stored electroplating chemicals stored in his home. He habitually ate an apple before bed and often discarded it not fully eaten. Coroner’s notes, when examined by a modern eye, may be more consistent with inhalation than ingestion. He had been off estrogen for a year. He had made a list of things to complete when he went back to work after the holiday weekend.
I should make sure my chemicals are stored properly.
Yep! There’s a lot of things that make it entirely possible it was an accident. I also want to clarify, I’m not discounting how abusive the government was to him- just saying we really don’t know for sure what happened
A fair assessment. Thank you for widening my perspective! _
His mom believed it was an accident, I have no clue just want to clarify it’s not settled