There has been significant discussion in recent weeks regarding Meta/Threads. We would like to express our disappointment with the negative and threatening tone of some of these discussions. We kindly ask everyone to engage in civil discourse and remember that not everyone will share the same opinions, which is perfectly acceptable.
When considering whether or not to defederate from Threads, we’re looking for a decision based on facts that prioritize your safety. We strive to remain neutral to make an informed choice.
First, there seem to be some misconceptions about how the Fediverse operates based on several posts. We’ve compiled some resource links to help explain the details and address any misunderstandings.
Fed Tips , Fediverse , ActivityPub
Initial Thoughts:
It seems unlikely that Meta will federate with Lemmy. When/if Meta adopts ActivityPub, it will likely affect Mastodon only rather than Lemmy, given Meta’s focus on being a Twitter alternative at the moment.
Please note that we have a few months before Threads will even federate with Mastodon, so we have some time to make the right decision.
Factors to Consider:
Factors to consider if Meta federates with Lemmy:
Privacy - While it’s true that Meta’s privacy settings for the app are excessive, it’s important to note that these settings only apply to users of the official Threads app and do not impact Lemmy users. It’s worth mentioning that Lemmy does not collect any personal data, and Meta has no means of accessing such data from this platform. In addition, when it comes to scraping data from your post/comments, Meta doesn’t need ActivityPub to do that. Anyone can read your profile and public posts as it is today.
Moderation - If a server hosts a substantial amount of harmful content without performing efficient and comprehensive moderation, it will create an excessive workload for our moderators. Currently, Meta is utilizing its existing Instagram moderation tools. Considering there were 95 million posts on the first day, this becomes worrisome, as it could potentially overwhelm us and serve as a sufficient reason for defederation.
Ads - It’s possible if Meta presents them as posts.
Promoting Posts - It’s possible with millions of users upvoting a post for it to trend.
Embrace, extend, and extinguish (EEE) - We don’t think they can. If anyone can explain how they technically would, please let us know. Even if Meta forks Lemmy and gets rid of the original software, Lemmy will survive.
Instance Blocking - Unlike Mastodon, Lemmy does not provide a feature for individual users to block an instance (yet). This creates a dilemma where we must either defederate, disappointing those who desire interaction with Threads, or choose not to defederate, which will let down those who prefer no interaction with Threads.
Blocking Outgoing Federation - There is currently no tool available to block outgoing federation from lemmy.world to other instances. We can only block incoming federation. This means that if we choose to defederate with our current capabilities, Threads will still receive copies of lemmy.world posts. However, only users on Threads will be able to interact with them, while we would not be able to see their interactions. This situation is similar to the one with Beehaw at the moment. Consequently, it leads to significant fragmentation of content, which has real and serious implications.
Conclusion:
From the points discussed above, the possible lack of moderation alone justifies considering defederation from Threads. However, it remains to be seen how Meta will handle moderation on such a large scale. Additionally, the inability of individuals to block an instance means we have to do what is best for the community.
If you have any added points or remarks on the above, please send them to @[email protected].
So your argument revolves around the fact that Lemmy/kbin/FOSS projects are inferior interfaces and that will draw people to FB?
If FB/Meta make a better product people should use it. Stop expecting users to kneecap themselves into using a worse product. All of the things you mentioned (uptime, cleaner ui, more responsive, better algorithms) are legitimate reasons to use other platforms. The average user doesn’t care about federation or instances or any of the other technical details and they never will. People don’t want to care about that stuff anymore.
You read my post and thought about it, even if you disagreed with the conclusion. I read yours and also disagreed, but thought enough about it to type this reply.
That’s what this is all actually about. Thinking about things you find interesting with other people you find interesting. I agree that people don’t want to think about technical things, and that is my complaint about the FOSS community. People want to think about cats.
The problem is not with any of the features themselves - they are all good things to have! If you run a service and rely on donations (and aren’t Wikimedia), then maybe you can cover $300 a month but probably not $30k. Things are going to have to be frugal. The upside is they can run it however they think it provides the most value to their communities. Everyone wants to think about cats, and no one will try to dissuade you or try to nudge you into using the platform more.
Facebook/Threads present themselves as free, but $30,000 will maybe cover a few junior employee’s salary for a month. These things are expensive, and the money needs to come from somewhere. They’ll operate at a huge loss while building up the platform, but eventually they’ll need people to stop thinking about cats and start thinking about brands. That cycle has played out over and over and over again. Build something useful, build walls around it, and then exploit it for as much shareholder value as you can.
Facebook doesn’t want you to think about cats. It wants you to think about brands. If it is allowed to be part of the Fediverse community, it will flex its influence and move it towards its own interests.
Pinboard is a simple one man Delicious like bookmarking site that charges a flat yearly fee for use. It comfortably covers its owner’s living expenses. I’ve been on the lookout for my own Pinboard idea for years, and I’m toying with the idea of starting a feature packed instance that charges people a yearly fee to have an account on it. That would be fun to build but miserable to administrate.
The different between PinboardLemmy and Facebook is I would have no reason to act against my user’s interests. You get all the fancy features because you pay for them. Why would I not want people to think about cats? Why would I care about maximizing their time on the site? I care about making my mortgage payment each month.
So go forth, and think about cats.