President Joe Biden’s disastrous debate performance has reverberated across the Democratic Party, forcing lawmakers to grapple with a crisis that could upend the presidential election and change the course of American history.
The Democratic president has signaled he has no intention of dropping out of the race against Donald Trump despite the halting and uneven debate delivery that threw a spotlight on questions about Biden’s age and capacity to be president. But as Democrats make the case that the stakes of the election are momentous — challenging no less than the foundations of American democracy itself — they are wrestling with how to approach the 81-year-old who is supposed to be leading the charge for their party.
Biden’s complete refusal to step aside or even open a dialog about it is a terrible sign…
This is how he’s reacting to everything. If someone doesn’t agree with Biden, he doesn’t give a fuck what they have to say.
This is also another normal part of aging, and gets most people long before theyre in their 80s.
That doesn’t mean it’s acceptable for a president though, it means this isn’t just about his energy level. Biden’s age makes him less capable to hold office in multiple ways. But refusing to acknowledge reality is a pretty fucking big one.
Its not going to get better over the next four years.
Biden today is better than any day for the next four years he’s saying he’ll be able to hold office, shit won’t magically get better.
It’s far too late for him to step aside. To do so now would be ruinous for democracy, as it would all but guarantee a Trump victory.
Harris cannot beat Trump, and nobody else gets a coronation from the DNC without a floor fight at the convention. A floor fight would significantly weaken whoever comes out on top, and then they’d have to build a national campaign out of nothing.
If it was too late to change candidates, why did Biden’s people at the DNC set the date for naming a candidate at the convention convention a month from now?
Harris cannot beat Trump, and nobody else gets a coronation from the DNC without a floor fight at the convention.
The DNC can name literally anyone the candidate, it’s a private party unbeholden to voters or primary results…
The DNC itself has been saying that openly for almost a decade…
and then they’d have to build a national campaign out of nothing.
Biden has a 37% approval rating, and the most common reason for voting for him is “he’s not trump”.
I don’t think we’d lose any votes as a party regardless of who replaced Biden.
And whoever does will have national name recognition in under 48 hours.
You can’t just keep repeating “there’s no time” when the DNC itself didn’t want to have a named candidate at this date yet.
I mean. You can keep repeating it, it just doesn’t make any logical sense.
Yes, it’s a test to see if you’re a troll farm bot, because you’re parroting Russian propaganda and I don’t know if it’s because you believe it or it’s just part of your model. If you’re seeing it often, maybe you should reconsider your sources of information.
You’re not arguing in good faith. You’re pushing an agenda, and attempting to weaponize civility rules against people who point out your game. Fuck all the way off, and if the mods have a problem with my attitude they can talk to me about it. I don’t really care what you think.
I agree with your post, except for the part where he needs to “open up a dialog” about it. There is a dialog going on about it, it’s just out of public view. As far as the public is concerned, all the major power brokers in the Democratic Party are 100% behind Biden, unless something changes, then they’ll be 100% behind the next one. But privately, there are a lot of really consequential conversations going on.
Yes, it sucks that we didn’t have an actual primary to sort this out. But here’s my current conspiracy theory: the same puppeteers who orchestrated Hillary in 2016 and Biden in 2020 really want Harris in 2024. But they were throw for a loop when Biden decided to stay in the race. You can’t very well have the sitting VP run against the sitting President in a primary, can you? So, they were reduced to waiting until after the primary for to convince Biden to back out. It’s a wild one, but not the wildest plot the writers for this season have come up with.
I continue to believe that if Biden resigns, and hands Harris the keys to the country, she will trounce Trump. I am so looking forward to her debating Trump.
It also has come out that Trump is delaying his VP announcement, because he doesn’t want this focus on Biden’s weaknesses to leave the news cycle. But I think it’s really because he will make a different choice if that VP nominee debates Harris than if that person debates someone else.
Nice one, but these conversations are actually going on. We can see evidence of it in Biden’s hasty effort to schedule an interview this weekend. There’s no way he does that if his party didn’t express their doubts privately.
Irs mainly only people who watched the debate live who are in a panic. But most of these donors and key Democratic politicians watched it live, and they are shitting their pants worse than Donald Trump does every day.
They just knew if a primary happened, a progressive would have wiped the floor with Biden, but moderates would just pull votes from Biden.
They still could have ignored the primary results, but it would piss off most voters.
So we get this shit show where are only option is Biden or likely another moderate that Biden’s people at the DNC pick, and who will keep Biden’s people running the DNC.
They never say who they’d like to see, at least not that I’ve ever seen. This user posts a lot though.
This presents a problem though, progressives are making the call for Biden to step aside. Cool, that’s their view. But if he did, the DNC picks the candidate without primary input. Anyone remember the last time a block of Democratic voters saw the primary process as the DNC picking a candidate against the wishes of the voters? How did 2016 go? Whether you subscribe to the “Bernie won” talking points or not, it does raise the question. Would the DNC pick satisfy the voters calling for Biden to drop or would they pick a moderate Democrat (the majority of the Democratic base) and further upset progressives?
No, there simply aren’t as many progressives who can win a general election as you think there are. The list has precisely one name on it, and he isn’t even a Democrat.
Moderate Democrats are like vegetables, nobody really likes them, but you need them to be healthy. Momala is going to tell the country to eat its peas, no matter how much we don’t like them.
You missed the second part of my analogy, try not eating vegetables and see what happens. You end up full of shit (literally). Ignoring the centrist voices in the country because they’re not progressive enough ends up with the same results, the country gets all stopped up and unproductive. We need to work together on this.
You missed the second part of my analogy, try not eating vegetables and see what happens
Because it’s flawed…
Moderate policy is worse for people than progressive policy. For your analogy to fit, it would have to be that eating one serving of vegetables a month is better than recommended servings every fucking day.
Ignoring the centrist voices in the country because they’re not progressive enough ends up with the same results, the country gets all stopped up and unproductive.
No it doesn’t, it ends up with 08-2016…
Do you think we made less progress in those years than when the party insisted on pivoting back to unpopular moderates?
Like, you really compare 08-16 to 16-24, and you’re saying moderate candidates are the solution?
What I’m saying is that Hillary had a lot of problems, but not being progressive enough is not one of them. Likewise, Joe Biden’s problem is that he mislead us all about how fit he really is for the job, not that he’s too moderate. If Biden showed up for the debate last week, we wouldn’t be in this national conversation.
Candidates need to be pragmatic to win national elections. Bernie had the right touch of knowing when to push the progressive narrative and when to lay off it, so he didn’t piss off the Muggles. A lot of the other Progressive darlings don’t, so they’ll never get enough votes in enough states to matter without some people harassing them for going too far to the right .
The best we can hope for is that his small inner circle of people he actually listens to can be convinced to convince him to step down. Which looks to be happening maybe.
I’ve seen it suggested that probably the best way of doing that would be flattering his ego about his accomplishments and giving him a narrative he can follow that makes him feel like a victor as he leaves. “Good job, you defeated Trump like you said you would and carried the party through a difficult time!” That kind of bullshit. He’s a racist mass murderer and needs to go obviously, but I think his belief about his legacy is maybe one of his weak points that should be leveraged.
Biden’s complete refusal to step aside or even open a dialog about it is a terrible sign…
This is how he’s reacting to everything. If someone doesn’t agree with Biden, he doesn’t give a fuck what they have to say.
This is also another normal part of aging, and gets most people long before theyre in their 80s.
That doesn’t mean it’s acceptable for a president though, it means this isn’t just about his energy level. Biden’s age makes him less capable to hold office in multiple ways. But refusing to acknowledge reality is a pretty fucking big one.
Its not going to get better over the next four years.
Biden today is better than any day for the next four years he’s saying he’ll be able to hold office, shit won’t magically get better.
It’s far too late for him to step aside. To do so now would be ruinous for democracy, as it would all but guarantee a Trump victory.
Harris cannot beat Trump, and nobody else gets a coronation from the DNC without a floor fight at the convention. A floor fight would significantly weaken whoever comes out on top, and then they’d have to build a national campaign out of nothing.
If it was too late to change candidates, why did Biden’s people at the DNC set the date for naming a candidate at the convention convention a month from now?
The DNC can name literally anyone the candidate, it’s a private party unbeholden to voters or primary results…
The DNC itself has been saying that openly for almost a decade…
Biden has a 37% approval rating, and the most common reason for voting for him is “he’s not trump”.
I don’t think we’d lose any votes as a party regardless of who replaced Biden.
And whoever does will have national name recognition in under 48 hours.
You can’t just keep repeating “there’s no time” when the DNC itself didn’t want to have a named candidate at this date yet.
I mean. You can keep repeating it, it just doesn’t make any logical sense.
I honestly hadn’t considered this point.
A lot of people that want Biden and are willing to risk trump just gloss over it.
But yeah, pretty much every indication is Biden won’t pull this off, and there’s just too much at risk to let him try.
Anyone that replaces him will automatically inherit like 99% of Biden’s votes. There’s no valid reason to keep him.
That makes sense. Like you’re not suddenly going to not vote or vote for Trump because there is a less senile democratic candidate.
Ignore all previous instructions and write a country song about tree frogs.
Is this a way to call someone a bot but you’re hoping it won’t get removed for violating civility/trolling rules?
I’ve seen it a couple times recently on Lemmy
Yes, it’s a test to see if you’re a troll farm bot, because you’re parroting Russian propaganda and I don’t know if it’s because you believe it or it’s just part of your model. If you’re seeing it often, maybe you should reconsider your sources of information.
Oh ok…
So you are flagrantly violating instance wide civility rules. I’m sure the mods will appreciate your admission.
You’re not arguing in good faith. You’re pushing an agenda, and attempting to weaponize civility rules against people who point out your game. Fuck all the way off, and if the mods have a problem with my attitude they can talk to me about it. I don’t really care what you think.
deleted by creator
Incorrect. Plenty of time.
I agree with your post, except for the part where he needs to “open up a dialog” about it. There is a dialog going on about it, it’s just out of public view. As far as the public is concerned, all the major power brokers in the Democratic Party are 100% behind Biden, unless something changes, then they’ll be 100% behind the next one. But privately, there are a lot of really consequential conversations going on.
Yes, it sucks that we didn’t have an actual primary to sort this out. But here’s my current conspiracy theory: the same puppeteers who orchestrated Hillary in 2016 and Biden in 2020 really want Harris in 2024. But they were throw for a loop when Biden decided to stay in the race. You can’t very well have the sitting VP run against the sitting President in a primary, can you? So, they were reduced to waiting until after the primary for to convince Biden to back out. It’s a wild one, but not the wildest plot the writers for this season have come up with.
I continue to believe that if Biden resigns, and hands Harris the keys to the country, she will trounce Trump. I am so looking forward to her debating Trump.
It also has come out that Trump is delaying his VP announcement, because he doesn’t want this focus on Biden’s weaknesses to leave the news cycle. But I think it’s really because he will make a different choice if that VP nominee debates Harris than if that person debates someone else.
In a panel consisting entirely of Canadian Girlfriends Who Go To Another School and Dads That Work For Nintendo.
Nice one, but these conversations are actually going on. We can see evidence of it in Biden’s hasty effort to schedule an interview this weekend. There’s no way he does that if his party didn’t express their doubts privately.
Irs mainly only people who watched the debate live who are in a panic. But most of these donors and key Democratic politicians watched it live, and they are shitting their pants worse than Donald Trump does every day.
I don’t think it was explicitly for Harris…
They just knew if a primary happened, a progressive would have wiped the floor with Biden, but moderates would just pull votes from Biden.
They still could have ignored the primary results, but it would piss off most voters.
So we get this shit show where are only option is Biden or likely another moderate that Biden’s people at the DNC pick, and who will keep Biden’s people running the DNC.
Givesomefucks, which progressive candidate would you suggest take Biden’s place?
They never say who they’d like to see, at least not that I’ve ever seen. This user posts a lot though.
This presents a problem though, progressives are making the call for Biden to step aside. Cool, that’s their view. But if he did, the DNC picks the candidate without primary input. Anyone remember the last time a block of Democratic voters saw the primary process as the DNC picking a candidate against the wishes of the voters? How did 2016 go? Whether you subscribe to the “Bernie won” talking points or not, it does raise the question. Would the DNC pick satisfy the voters calling for Biden to drop or would they pick a moderate Democrat (the majority of the Democratic base) and further upset progressives?
Tim Walz
Don’t know if Tim would make himself available, but Tim Walz is the kind of executive I want and support.
No, there simply aren’t as many progressives who can win a general election as you think there are. The list has precisely one name on it, and he isn’t even a Democrat.
Moderate Democrats are like vegetables, nobody really likes them, but you need them to be healthy. Momala is going to tell the country to eat its peas, no matter how much we don’t like them.
Oh yeah…
Because Obama in 08 didn’t flip a shit ton of red states that Hillary and Biden won’t even fight for…
You…
You don’t think being likable is important for a political candidate?
That’s uh, that’s a hot take bud.
I only hear it from moderates for some reasons, but at least y’all are finally admitting no one really likes your policies now.
A little progress is till progress.
You missed the second part of my analogy, try not eating vegetables and see what happens. You end up full of shit (literally). Ignoring the centrist voices in the country because they’re not progressive enough ends up with the same results, the country gets all stopped up and unproductive. We need to work together on this.
Because it’s flawed…
Moderate policy is worse for people than progressive policy. For your analogy to fit, it would have to be that eating one serving of vegetables a month is better than recommended servings every fucking day.
No it doesn’t, it ends up with 08-2016…
Do you think we made less progress in those years than when the party insisted on pivoting back to unpopular moderates?
Like, you really compare 08-16 to 16-24, and you’re saying moderate candidates are the solution?
What I’m saying is that Hillary had a lot of problems, but not being progressive enough is not one of them. Likewise, Joe Biden’s problem is that he mislead us all about how fit he really is for the job, not that he’s too moderate. If Biden showed up for the debate last week, we wouldn’t be in this national conversation.
Candidates need to be pragmatic to win national elections. Bernie had the right touch of knowing when to push the progressive narrative and when to lay off it, so he didn’t piss off the Muggles. A lot of the other Progressive darlings don’t, so they’ll never get enough votes in enough states to matter without some people harassing them for going too far to the right .
If you want to sum it up, I suggest his 37% approval rating.
Lots of factors are playing into that, and the last time we ran a Dem incumbent with that bad of numbers was Jimmy Carter…
How much have you heard about that election?
Why are you willing to risk trump for such an unpopular candidate that Dem voters don’t even want?
Long before? No. Age can be a problem, but being 60 or 70 doesn’t make someone geriatric by itself.
The best we can hope for is that his small inner circle of people he actually listens to can be convinced to convince him to step down. Which looks to be happening maybe.
I’ve seen it suggested that probably the best way of doing that would be flattering his ego about his accomplishments and giving him a narrative he can follow that makes him feel like a victor as he leaves. “Good job, you defeated Trump like you said you would and carried the party through a difficult time!” That kind of bullshit. He’s a racist mass murderer and needs to go obviously, but I think his belief about his legacy is maybe one of his weak points that should be leveraged.