Are there movements in the US or globally to force all business into worker coops? Unions are good but I think this is their ultimate limitation, that employers can just offshore their jobs
Argentina has somewhat of a history of workers seizing their factories. I think it would be extremely hard in the U.S. due to the well-funded police. Generally, I guess the movement would be “anarcho-syndicalism.”
Edit: misremembered worker factory takeovers in the past as occurring in Venezuela instead of Argentina.
Thanks. I didn’t know about Venezuela’s history at all. But I meant not more on a policy level to mandate that all companies must be owned equally by employees instead of shareholders
By that hyper-simplistic “logic” people shouldn’t be forced into prison if they murder someone.
Clearly some kinds of forcing in some situations are “good”, and if some are good but other not, that means the real discussion is all about “when is forcing right and when is it not?” something that childlike “logic” of yours doesn’t even begin to address.
The meme is right, the claim of belonging is complete bullshit. Your toothbrush and your home belong to you, a business involving multiple people belongs to everyone involved. The idea that it doesn’t is narcissism and evil.
It rightfully belongs to the workers. The firm is basically a vehicle for appropriating the positive and negative product of production. The just basis of property is getting the positive and negative fruits of your labor (i.e. the labor theory of property). In a capitalist employer-employee relationship, the employer gets solely holds the whole product while workers are denied their claim to it despite it being a result of their labor.
Forcing is absolutely good. We force companies to do all kinds of things, in terms of corporate governance (publicly traded companies must have their finances audited, for example), ownership (banks used to be prevented from buying stock so that they would not avoid calling in bad debt), and how they do business (collusion between big tech to keep salaries down for example).
Are there movements in the US or globally to force all business into worker coops? Unions are good but I think this is their ultimate limitation, that employers can just offshore their jobs
Argentina has somewhat of a history of workers seizing their factories. I think it would be extremely hard in the U.S. due to the well-funded police. Generally, I guess the movement would be “anarcho-syndicalism.”
Edit: misremembered worker factory takeovers in the past as occurring in Venezuela instead of Argentina.
They’ll send in the national guard
Thanks. I didn’t know about Venezuela’s history at all. But I meant not more on a policy level to mandate that all companies must be owned equally by employees instead of shareholders
Got some sources on that? I was born and raised there and all I can find is the government seizing factories, not the workers
Edit: some sources of my own
https://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/general-motors-says-venezuelan-officials-illegally-seize-plant-n748741
https://www.lanacion.com.ar/el-mundo/las-expropiaciones-venezuela-ruta-directa-al-desastre-nid2376403/
Oh shit. Mixed it up with Argentina.
Yes:
https://www.abolishhumanrentals.org
@aboringdystopia
Thanks! First time hearing of this.
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Forcing isn’t good.
By that hyper-simplistic “logic” people shouldn’t be forced into prison if they murder someone.
Clearly some kinds of forcing in some situations are “good”, and if some are good but other not, that means the real discussion is all about “when is forcing right and when is it not?” something that childlike “logic” of yours doesn’t even begin to address.
Forcing to defend the lives of others, is very different from forcibly taking what belongs to others
The meme is right, the claim of belonging is complete bullshit. Your toothbrush and your home belong to you, a business involving multiple people belongs to everyone involved. The idea that it doesn’t is narcissism and evil.
You’re free to believe what you want, I’m personally a Lockean property rights enjoyer.
Cringe and evil
I think stealing the labor of others is evil
Said the guy advocating property rights
Funny bc thats in agreement with what I just said. Unless you think your home and toothbrush are not yours bc you didn’t make them.
It disagrees with the second statement not the first
Then clearly you don’t understand Lock then.
It rightfully belongs to the workers. The firm is basically a vehicle for appropriating the positive and negative product of production. The just basis of property is getting the positive and negative fruits of your labor (i.e. the labor theory of property). In a capitalist employer-employee relationship, the employer gets solely holds the whole product while workers are denied their claim to it despite it being a result of their labor.
@aboringdystopia
Forcing is absolutely good. We force companies to do all kinds of things, in terms of corporate governance (publicly traded companies must have their finances audited, for example), ownership (banks used to be prevented from buying stock so that they would not avoid calling in bad debt), and how they do business (collusion between big tech to keep salaries down for example).
Yeah because private Enterprise will be guided by the invisible hand to do the right thing