I feel like we pretty much nailed the ending of Democracy when the Democrats argued in court that they’re a private corporation and don’t have to honor primaries.
I picture you typing this comment with a smirk and then taking a sip of coffee. Then to yourself you utter, “Hah! Got 'em”, before you hit the save button.
Of course the court case is not relevant. Why the f*ck would it be? We always knew that the Dem and GOP parties are non government organizations with the power to alter their own charters.
What matters is what the charter actually says. That is the only document that is relevent.
Section 4. The delegates shall be chosen through processes which:
(a) assure all Democratic voters full, timely and equal opportunity to participate and include
affirmative action programs toward that end,
(b) assure that delegations fairly reflect the division of preferences expressed by those who
participate in the Presidential nominating process
Man, how fun must it be to log into the internet dot com and try to convince those that you agree 95% with not to vote against the people you disagree 95% with, or throw their vote away.
A. The person who says his supporters won’t have to vote anymore after he’s in office and also shares none of my political views
B. A boring liberal who has a decent left-leaning senate voting record and shares most of my political views
C. Someone who has absolutely zero chance of winning
You, an utterly deranged person: I better vote for C so that A wins. That’ll teach person B!
(Did Democrats change in the way you wanted them to when Ralph Nader pulled juuuust enough votes away from Gore in 2000 to hand things over to the Bushes again? Or when Jill Stein helped steer voters away from Hilary in 2016? No? Huh, well, let’s just try again, forever, and have nothing to show for it except conservative wins. Unless that was entirely the point?)
What’s going to get the fascists into office is the fact that tens of millions of Americans can’t afford to miss a day of work, and Biden didn’t do anything to change that.
Me and my Green Party vote have nothing to do with it. We Greens are powerless.
You could try not constantly attempting to convince people likely to vote democrat to not vote, or vote for a 0% chance candidate. Nader. Stein. If they didn’t do what they did, we wouldn’t have had a Bush 2 or Trump administration.
You want change? You have to vote for something different. It’s that simple.
Hell no we do not want neofascist changes Ivan. That’s what completely fucked up all of Russia. Why the hell would we want the “change” of losing democracy and the rule of law? LMFAO There is an excellent reason why Bernie went thru the Dem party. Because he’s not an idiot.
why we’re on the brink of fascism.
You and Treason Trump and War Criminal Putin are the reason.
You are so transparent it’s not even funny any more.
I don’t know where you’ve been the last 40 years, but none of this is funny to me. I have eight year-old parents borrowing my car right now to work for DoorDash, because they have no other options in Biden’s America.
And what’s worse is you’re not too far from that yourself and you’re voting for it, assuming you’re someone who works for a wage.
You didn’t address anything I wrote. I’ll repeat it in case:
Primary picked Biden/Harris on the ticket.
Less than 100 days to election day.
The economy is not the presidents fault - they are not God. This is a long process that has been devolving over many years. It’s a cop-out to pin it on a party or president. I wouldn’t say Trump destroyed the economy either, but he did give the biggest tax breaks to the upper echelon of society so the rich made out like bandits while the poor continue to foot the bill. At least democrats are on the side of labor.
They are the only ones pushing for social security and protections for labor. Not Republicans and big business.
It’s funny to us that you didn’t know what the court case was about (the party being a non government entity) and you didn’t know what the DNC charter says (guarantees that candidates reflect the will of the primary voters).
because they have no other options in Biden’s America.
Well then you shouldn’t be trying to fool people into helping billionaires get a gigantic GOP tax cut. Again.
Will you stop with the nonsense? What your own link says is that they argued in court that they are a non government entity and as such has the power to alter their own charter if they wish. This is technically true and true for the RNC as well because they are not government organizations. But if they altered the charter we would see that it is altered.
[“The court would have to basically tell the party that it couldn’t change [the neutrality rule], even though it’s a discretionary rule that it didn’t need to adopt to begin with.”]
The charter guarantees that the delegates “fairly reflect” the will of the voters:
Section 4. The delegates shall be chosen through processes which:
(a) assure all Democratic voters full, timely and equal opportunity to participate and include
affirmative action programs toward that end,
(b) assure that delegations fairly reflect the division of preferences expressed by those who
participate in the Presidential nominating process
The charter says any proposed changes would have to be released to the national news media 30 days before voting.
Section 1. This Charter may be amended by a vote of a majority of all of the delegates to the
National Convention, provided that no such amendment shall be effective unless and until it is
subsequently ratified by a vote of the majority of the entire membership of the Democratic National
Committee. This Charter may also be amended by a vote of two-thirds of the entire membership of the
Democratic National Committee. At least thirty days written notice shall be given of any National
Committee meeting at which action will be taken pursuant to this Section, and any proposed amendment
shall be given to all members of the National Committee and shall be released to the national news
media.
Eh… While Hilary and her shills definitely rigged that primary, it took her 8 solid years to get her people into all the positions of power throughout the DNC and state Dem parties so they could shove her down our throats… I don’t think her minion infrastructure is still in place like it was then… And I think it was more her controlling the party that made the party undemocratic, than about the party itself actually being fully undemocratic.
Section 4. The delegates shall be chosen through processes which:
(a) assure all Democratic voters full, timely and equal opportunity to participate and include affirmative action programs toward that end,
(b) assure that delegations fairly reflect the division of preferences expressed by those who
participate in the Presidential nominating process
These DNC insiders, more than most, have had a front-row seat for the very public cognitive decline that Joe Biden has displayed over the last 2-3 years, and they crowned him anyway. If he hadn’t had that very public break on national television, things would be very different now. They couldn’t stage manage his brain melting.
I think they want a useful idiot president they can maneuver around the board every bit as much as the Trump’s handlers do.
What I find to be bizarre as an outsider is the attitude in United States politics that there are only two parties and since one is clearly pretty evil, the other one must the good party and therefore can’t be criticized. All this “fuck your ‘but both sides’ hurdy hurrrrr” shite the American liberals spew.
Do they not realize both parties are awful? One is quite a bit less awful, but it’s still awful compared to any parties actually left of center or if just looked at objectively. If the United States had a third party who adhered to the politics of Bernie Sanders, there would be no question it would be superior to the Democrats. But they don’t, so many people consider the Democrats beyond reproach.
In a First Past the Post system this is the only party worth voting for. Many leftists advocate and donate for progressive causes but when it comes to election time there is no other sane alternative.
In a First Past the Post system this is the only party worth voting for.
Yep and nobody alive today designed this system we all inherited it same as everyone. And if you ignore this system you simply guarantee yourself to being a lifetime loser.
I agree completely, first past the post is sheer idiocy and leads to dilemmas like what we’re seeing now.
What I don’t understand is this nigh worship of the Democratic party, where some adherents won’t countenance the slightest criticism of their “team”. One can still vote for the less bad party AND hold them accountable for their actions.
Would that be the same Bernie Sanders that endorses the Dem candidate and is disgusted by your attempts to fool people into helping billionaires get gigantic GOP tax cuts and overthrow democracy?
and is disgusted by your attempts to fool people into helping billionaires get gigantic GOP tax cuts and overthrow democracy?
By my attempts? I don’t live in your shit hole joke of a country. We have more than two political parties. I can make statements criticizing or about wanting more from my preferred party without other supporters coming back with absolutely ridiculous, smooth brained comments like yours. You can’t even criticize my actual stated beliefs in my comments, you have to fabricate your little strawman first.
Fucking Americans. Just the smallest, most immature minds and worldviews you can imagine, yet you oversized toddlers collectively command so much of the world’s power.
Edit: holy hell your post history is a dumpster fire of delusion. “Everyone who disagrees with me is a Russian troll!” I can’t even imagine being the kind of person who requires that as a coping mechanism. I’m blocking you before reading any more of your comments makes me stupider.
I dunno, guys.
I feel like we pretty much nailed the ending of Democracy when the Democrats argued in court that they’re a private corporation and don’t have to honor primaries.
What we have isn’t a democracy.
I picture you typing this comment with a smirk and then taking a sip of coffee. Then to yourself you utter, “Hah! Got 'em”, before you hit the save button.
Are you saying you don’t think that court case was relevant?
Of course the court case is not relevant. Why the f*ck would it be? We always knew that the Dem and GOP parties are non government organizations with the power to alter their own charters.
What matters is what the charter actually says. That is the only document that is relevent.
https://democrats.org/wp-content/uploads/2022/03/DNC-Charter-Bylaws-03.12.2022.pdf
Section 4. The delegates shall be chosen through processes which: (a) assure all Democratic voters full, timely and equal opportunity to participate and include affirmative action programs toward that end, (b) assure that delegations fairly reflect the division of preferences expressed by those who participate in the Presidential nominating process
BotH sIdES
Man, how fun must it be to log into the internet dot com and try to convince those that you agree 95% with not to vote against the people you disagree 95% with, or throw their vote away.
At this point I’m just honestly curious as to how badly the Democrats have to fail for you before you’ll consider voting differently.
But yes, it is a bummer that I’m stuck with the crummy decisions of 99% of American voters.
Who should I vote for?
A. The person who says his supporters won’t have to vote anymore after he’s in office and also shares none of my political views
B. A boring liberal who has a decent left-leaning senate voting record and shares most of my political views
C. Someone who has absolutely zero chance of winning
You, an utterly deranged person: I better vote for C so that A wins. That’ll teach person B!
(Did Democrats change in the way you wanted them to when Ralph Nader pulled juuuust enough votes away from Gore in 2000 to hand things over to the Bushes again? Or when Jill Stein helped steer voters away from Hilary in 2016? No? Huh, well, let’s just try again, forever, and have nothing to show for it except conservative wins. Unless that was entirely the point?)
40 years of your reasoning is why we’re on the brink of fascism.
You want change? You have to vote for something different. It’s that simple.
And a bunch of dipshits like you are going to be the reason the fascists get into office.
What’s going to get the fascists into office is the fact that tens of millions of Americans can’t afford to miss a day of work, and Biden didn’t do anything to change that.
Me and my Green Party vote have nothing to do with it. We Greens are powerless.
You could try not constantly attempting to convince people likely to vote democrat to not vote, or vote for a 0% chance candidate. Nader. Stein. If they didn’t do what they did, we wouldn’t have had a Bush 2 or Trump administration.
Except for you trying to con people into helping billionaires get gigantic GOP tax cuts and destroy democracy.
Hell no we do not want neofascist changes Ivan. That’s what completely fucked up all of Russia. Why the hell would we want the “change” of losing democracy and the rule of law? LMFAO There is an excellent reason why Bernie went thru the Dem party. Because he’s not an idiot.
You and Treason Trump and War Criminal Putin are the reason.
Locally.
2/3 of the US states are controlled by conservatives and fascists.
It is a very big deal that the Democrats at the federal level accomplish nothing.
You are badly underestimating American’s desire not be be like Russia Ivan.
The democratic party IS a private entity. You are welcome to run anyone you want.
We had a primary: Biden/Kamala made the pick. We have less than 100 days to election day. No one is going to set up staff and offices in that time.
You are so transparent it’s not even funny any more.
I don’t know where you’ve been the last 40 years, but none of this is funny to me. I have eight year-old parents borrowing my car right now to work for DoorDash, because they have no other options in Biden’s America.
And what’s worse is you’re not too far from that yourself and you’re voting for it, assuming you’re someone who works for a wage.
You didn’t address anything I wrote. I’ll repeat it in case:
Primary picked Biden/Harris on the ticket.
Less than 100 days to election day.
The economy is not the presidents fault - they are not God. This is a long process that has been devolving over many years. It’s a cop-out to pin it on a party or president. I wouldn’t say Trump destroyed the economy either, but he did give the biggest tax breaks to the upper echelon of society so the rich made out like bandits while the poor continue to foot the bill. At least democrats are on the side of labor. They are the only ones pushing for social security and protections for labor. Not Republicans and big business.
It’s funny to us that you didn’t know what the court case was about (the party being a non government entity) and you didn’t know what the DNC charter says (guarantees that candidates reflect the will of the primary voters).
Well then you shouldn’t be trying to fool people into helping billionaires get a gigantic GOP tax cut. Again.
WTF this is bad even for Kremlin trolls.
Username checks out.
So imperfect that we may as well throw the whole thing out then!
It’s more democratic than it used to be. They used to not even have primaries.
Will you stop with the nonsense? What your own link says is that they argued in court that they are a non government entity and as such has the power to alter their own charter if they wish. This is technically true and true for the RNC as well because they are not government organizations. But if they altered the charter we would see that it is altered.
[“The court would have to basically tell the party that it couldn’t change [the neutrality rule], even though it’s a discretionary rule that it didn’t need to adopt to begin with.”]
https://democrats.org/wp-content/uploads/2022/03/DNC-Charter-Bylaws-03.12.2022.pdf
The charter guarantees that the delegates “fairly reflect” the will of the voters:
Section 4. The delegates shall be chosen through processes which: (a) assure all Democratic voters full, timely and equal opportunity to participate and include affirmative action programs toward that end, (b) assure that delegations fairly reflect the division of preferences expressed by those who participate in the Presidential nominating process
The charter says any proposed changes would have to be released to the national news media 30 days before voting.
Section 1. This Charter may be amended by a vote of a majority of all of the delegates to the National Convention, provided that no such amendment shall be effective unless and until it is subsequently ratified by a vote of the majority of the entire membership of the Democratic National Committee. This Charter may also be amended by a vote of two-thirds of the entire membership of the Democratic National Committee. At least thirty days written notice shall be given of any National Committee meeting at which action will be taken pursuant to this Section, and any proposed amendment shall be given to all members of the National Committee and shall be released to the national news media.
Eh… While Hilary and her shills definitely rigged that primary, it took her 8 solid years to get her people into all the positions of power throughout the DNC and state Dem parties so they could shove her down our throats… I don’t think her minion infrastructure is still in place like it was then… And I think it was more her controlling the party that made the party undemocratic, than about the party itself actually being fully undemocratic.
She doesn’t have any people. There is a complete changeover of delegates every 4 years. The 2020 delegates and the 2024 delegates were Biden’s people.
Here in America reality matters. The Party Charter completely contradicts your Trumpian level of lies. Nice try Ivan.
https://democrats.org/wp-content/uploads/2022/03/DNC-Charter-Bylaws-03.12.2022.pdf
Section 4. The delegates shall be chosen through processes which: (a) assure all Democratic voters full, timely and equal opportunity to participate and include affirmative action programs toward that end, (b) assure that delegations fairly reflect the division of preferences expressed by those who participate in the Presidential nominating process
I wasn’t talking about delegates. I was talking about state and national party leadership. For example: Debbie Wasserman Schultz
I don’t know that I agree.
These DNC insiders, more than most, have had a front-row seat for the very public cognitive decline that Joe Biden has displayed over the last 2-3 years, and they crowned him anyway. If he hadn’t had that very public break on national television, things would be very different now. They couldn’t stage manage his brain melting.
I think they want a useful idiot president they can maneuver around the board every bit as much as the Trump’s handlers do.
By DC insiders do you mean Clinton people?
Some of the responses to your comment are some of the most braindead, conversation killing, stereotypically lib bullshit I’ve seen in awhile.
True. These are the people who vote for whoever MSNBC tells them to and have zero introspection on their own personal politics.
Man. Get off your ‘enlightened centrist’ high horse.
I am not a centrist. I’m a Democratic Socialist.
Anyone who who is still both sidesing in 2024 either has no idea what policies have passed or is doing it in bad faith.
The fact that you also pontificate from your high horse “how can they not see” while seemingly being totally unaware is peak Dunning-Kruger.
Did you mean Kremlin Fascist?
What I find to be bizarre as an outsider is the attitude in United States politics that there are only two parties and since one is clearly pretty evil, the other one must the good party and therefore can’t be criticized. All this “fuck your ‘but both sides’ hurdy hurrrrr” shite the American liberals spew.
Do they not realize both parties are awful? One is quite a bit less awful, but it’s still awful compared to any parties actually left of center or if just looked at objectively. If the United States had a third party who adhered to the politics of Bernie Sanders, there would be no question it would be superior to the Democrats. But they don’t, so many people consider the Democrats beyond reproach.
What is wrong with all of them?
In a First Past the Post system this is the only party worth voting for. Many leftists advocate and donate for progressive causes but when it comes to election time there is no other sane alternative.
Yep and nobody alive today designed this system we all inherited it same as everyone. And if you ignore this system you simply guarantee yourself to being a lifetime loser.
I agree completely, first past the post is sheer idiocy and leads to dilemmas like what we’re seeing now.
What I don’t understand is this nigh worship of the Democratic party, where some adherents won’t countenance the slightest criticism of their “team”. One can still vote for the less bad party AND hold them accountable for their actions.
Would that be the same Bernie Sanders that endorses the Dem candidate and is disgusted by your attempts to fool people into helping billionaires get gigantic GOP tax cuts and overthrow democracy?
By my attempts? I don’t live in your shit hole joke of a country. We have more than two political parties. I can make statements criticizing or about wanting more from my preferred party without other supporters coming back with absolutely ridiculous, smooth brained comments like yours. You can’t even criticize my actual stated beliefs in my comments, you have to fabricate your little strawman first.
Fucking Americans. Just the smallest, most immature minds and worldviews you can imagine, yet you oversized toddlers collectively command so much of the world’s power.
Edit: holy hell your post history is a dumpster fire of delusion. “Everyone who disagrees with me is a Russian troll!” I can’t even imagine being the kind of person who requires that as a coping mechanism. I’m blocking you before reading any more of your comments makes me stupider.
Then you should have told us what your country is. It’s perfectly fine to go with whoever you like most in a parliamentary system
Blue maga out here being mad at you lol. According to them any criticism of the dems, no matter how valid, is encouraging people not to vote.
Yup.
A week ago they were arguing for the presidency of a guy whose brain doesn’t work properly, but you and I are the problem, apparently.
Next they’re gonna say we’re Russian trolls. Libs gonna lib.
(And by lib I mean people who legitimately find the majority of Democrat politicians exciting)