So you all get mad and cry a lot when you think Green Party people may “spoil” Democrats votes. Do you have the same venom for third parties that may “spoil” Repubican votes?
Or is it ok when someone does it to the OTHER party, just not yours?
the wise man bowed his head solemnly and spoke: “theres actually zero difference between good & bad things. you imbecile. you fucking moron”
The whole reason third parties and spoilers are bad is for their impact, not some inherent issue with their existence. In the case of left-presenting third parties, the impact is bad. In the case of right-presenting third parties, the impact is good. Good things and bad things are different.
In the case of left-presenting third parties, the impact is bad. In the case of right-presenting third parties, the impact is good.
Ohhhh, so you’re saying that you’re fine with third parties when they negatively impact the Republicans. But you don’t like them when they negatively impact the Democrats.
Hmmm.
That’s so strange because I have been accused of being a russian asset for posting third party news. People wondering what my agenda is. Being accused of being a Trump fan. People saying that I MUST be getting paid in “russian bitcoins,” etc
UNLESS it’s bad for the Repubilcans. Then suddenly, upvotes. So it’s NOT about third parties. It’s because you guys are pissed when someone doesn’t vote for your side. lol
It’s only hypocrisy if they do things that disagree with their own views, and their own views are internally conistent in this case. Their view is not that all third parties are bad, their view is that third parties that have a negative impact are bad. So it doesn’t make it hypocrisy just because it disagrees with your straw man of their views.
Under plurality voting, third parties are objectively bad for the winning chances of whatever party they pull more voters from (and/or bad for whatever major party you personally would vote for, if you personally vote third party). That might be what some people meant by them being “bad”, even though they prefer one of those major parties to win (and cheer on anything that makes the other party less likely to win). Although it’s certainly possible that some people just think they are bad in general. People do have different opinions, after all.
Agreed. But people definitely were not thinking that way when they said I was a russian asset troll, just because posted some news articles about the Green Party.
You don’t understand what hypocrisy is. You think people are shitting on you because they just don’t like the concept of third parties, but then suddenly change their tune when it’s beneficial, but it’s actually because of the impact of specific third parties on whether fascists get to do things.
If the Greens were just running in deep-blue districts to challenge effectively unopposed Democrats more moderate than their district, that’d be a good thing. Maybe they’d still lose, but at least it wouldn’t make the country more fascist, and hopefully a few would win and make it a more progressive place. I wish there was someone from the left challenging my representative. But instead they almost only compete in high-profile elections where they have no chance of impact except to possibly help the fascist party get a plurality. Supporting fascists is bad.
You think people are shitting on you because they just don’t like the concept of third parties, but then suddenly change their tune when it’s beneficial
That’s exactly what I think. And I am seeing proof of it here every day! lol
And not all republicans are “fascists” by the way. I talking about strictly party loyalty. I don’t care who the repubican candidate is, the vitrol would be exactly the same.
You guys don’t like it when it affects you, but it’s totally fine when it affects them. Yes, that is hypocrisy.
And how long are you all gonna play the “fascist” card. Is it only for Trump? Or will it be for the next Republican too? And the one after that? And after? What about the people who vote republican, are they all fascists too? Is half the country fascists now?
You guys are just as extreme as they are. And just as cultish.
Not only that, the arguments I have had with people here on Lemmy, has done NOTHING to change my mind on the Green Party. I’m looking for to voting Green now, more than ever.
It is good when the most fascistic US political party occasionally suffers from the anti-democratic electoral system in the US, yes.
It’s unfortunate that actual left-leaning third-parties in the US contribute to the spoiler effect, and therefore rightfully catch flack for it, but I won’t stop myself from celebrating the fact that the Libertarian party ruins things for the Republicans.
Actual serious third-parties should be pushing hard in local and state elections, where they actually have some shot of winning. And props to the Green candidates and other nominally left-leaning politicians that actually do that. But Jill Stein and Cornell West only rearing their heads every four years to syphon off votes from the Democrats in presidential races that they will never win, without putting in the work in the local elections, is counter-productive and only aids the right-wing in gaining power.
Sorry, but the spoiler effect is real. And, yes, it’s good when it the Republican party suffers from it, and bad when Democrats suffer from it.
It’s unfortunate that actual left-leaning third-parties in the US contribute to the spoiler effect, and therefore rightfully catch flack for it, but I won’t stop myself from celebrating the fact that the Libertarian party ruins things for the Republicans.
So it’s ok when it happens to the OTHER party, just not when it happens to your party. Hmmm…
Sorry, but the spoiler effect is real. And, yes, it’s good when it the Republican party suffers from it, and bad when Democrats suffer from it.
But why are you so angry about left-leaning third parties then? I mean, you don’t see the hypocrisy in laughing when it happens to republicans but being angry when it happens to democrats?!
…you don’t see the hypocrisy in laughing when it happens to republicans but being angry when it happens to democrats?!
Hypocrisy would require that I had some say in the anti-democratic system that we’re all subjected to, but I don’t, so when anti-democratic shit hurts fascists, I take it as a fortunate side-effect to an otherwise fucked up system.
But why are you so angry about left-leaning third parties then?
I’m not angry about left-leaning third-parties? I just wish more of the third-parties would put in the necessary work in down-ballot local elections. People like Jill Stein just show up in the presidential race to grift and detract from the total number of votes that the Democrats would get. I would encourage third-party candidates to in down-ballot elections, where they can actually win and make a difference. I vote for those candidates when they run in elections I can vote in. But Jill Stein and Cornell West are clearly just grifting in a race they’ll never win, and in doing so will take away some amount of potentially-Democratic voters.
You have every right to vote for whomever you want, but don’t delude yourself into thinking that voting third-party in a US presidential race is anything more than a virtue signal.
I’m fine with spoilers harming the Repubs. That party has done an insurrection and is running the leader of the insurrection as their candidate. He is also a rapist. He is also utterly unfit in myriad other ways.
I’m not sure what point you think you are making by removing all context and pretending everything is still the same. But I do know you are constantly on here trolling, so I applaud whoever set you off. This is hilarious.
But I’m not trolling. What makes you think I am a troll?
so I applaud whoever set you off. This is hilarious.
No one set me off at all. Lemmy discussions have ZERO effect on my day-to-day life. I can note replies I get when I am replying. But in my “real” life, none of this discussion has any effect on my mood or my life. I’m not surprised by my downvotes, nor am I surprised by how nasty people can get.
I find it interesting that people get sooooo butthurt simply because I am not voting for their candidate, but that says more about their life than it does mine.
I love my job, love my family, love my gf, and I love my life. I can retire and live happily ever after and just post on Lemmy all day if I want, but I like my job so much, I keep chugging on.
I’m old enough to have voted before most of you all were even born. Why would anything any Lemmy people say to me, “set” me “off”!?
And for people to call me a troll just because I post political news articles to a Lemmy political news site, and it happens to be about parties they may not like, is hilarious to me. Like seriously? Just don’t read them or block me and move on.
I’m not a troll for posting stuff I am interested in. And I don’t only post political news articles.
Are the people that post the multitudes of pro-democrat party articles, “trolls”? Or is that term just reserved for people who don’t think exactly like you do?
they should try running in local races if they want to be taken seriously
They do:
Californians have elected 55 of the 226 office-holding Greens nationwide. Other states with high numbers of Green elected officials include Pennsylvania (31), Wisconsin (23), Massachusetts (18) and Maine (17). Maine has the highest per capita number of Green elected officials in the country and the largest Green registration percentage with more than 29,273 Greens comprising 2.95% of the electorate as of November 2006.[68] Madison, Wisconsin is the city with the most Green elected officials (8), followed by Portland, Maine (7).
So you all get mad and cry a lot when you think Green Party people may “spoil” Democrats votes. Do you have the same venom for third parties that may “spoil” Repubican votes?
Or is it ok when someone does it to the OTHER party, just not yours?
the wise man bowed his head solemnly and spoke: “theres actually zero difference between good & bad things. you imbecile. you fucking moron”
The whole reason third parties and spoilers are bad is for their impact, not some inherent issue with their existence. In the case of left-presenting third parties, the impact is bad. In the case of right-presenting third parties, the impact is good. Good things and bad things are different.
Ohhhh, so you’re saying that you’re fine with third parties when they negatively impact the Republicans. But you don’t like them when they negatively impact the Democrats.
Hmmm.
That’s so strange because I have been accused of being a russian asset for posting third party news. People wondering what my agenda is. Being accused of being a Trump fan. People saying that I MUST be getting paid in “russian bitcoins,” etc
UNLESS it’s bad for the Repubilcans. Then suddenly, upvotes. So it’s NOT about third parties. It’s because you guys are pissed when someone doesn’t vote for your side. lol
Let’s talk about hypocrisy next, guys!
Care to share any of these accusations?
Or will you just complain about it and not show any proof ever?
It’s only hypocrisy if they do things that disagree with their own views, and their own views are internally conistent in this case. Their view is not that all third parties are bad, their view is that third parties that have a negative impact are bad. So it doesn’t make it hypocrisy just because it disagrees with your straw man of their views.
That sure isn’t the heat I was catching these last few days. It was definitely “third parties are bad!”
Under plurality voting, third parties are objectively bad for the winning chances of whatever party they pull more voters from (and/or bad for whatever major party you personally would vote for, if you personally vote third party). That might be what some people meant by them being “bad”, even though they prefer one of those major parties to win (and cheer on anything that makes the other party less likely to win). Although it’s certainly possible that some people just think they are bad in general. People do have different opinions, after all.
Agreed. But people definitely were not thinking that way when they said I was a russian asset troll, just because posted some news articles about the Green Party.
You don’t understand what hypocrisy is. You think people are shitting on you because they just don’t like the concept of third parties, but then suddenly change their tune when it’s beneficial, but it’s actually because of the impact of specific third parties on whether fascists get to do things.
If the Greens were just running in deep-blue districts to challenge effectively unopposed Democrats more moderate than their district, that’d be a good thing. Maybe they’d still lose, but at least it wouldn’t make the country more fascist, and hopefully a few would win and make it a more progressive place. I wish there was someone from the left challenging my representative. But instead they almost only compete in high-profile elections where they have no chance of impact except to possibly help the fascist party get a plurality. Supporting fascists is bad.
That’s exactly what I think. And I am seeing proof of it here every day! lol
And not all republicans are “fascists” by the way. I talking about strictly party loyalty. I don’t care who the repubican candidate is, the vitrol would be exactly the same.
You guys don’t like it when it affects you, but it’s totally fine when it affects them. Yes, that is hypocrisy.
And how long are you all gonna play the “fascist” card. Is it only for Trump? Or will it be for the next Republican too? And the one after that? And after? What about the people who vote republican, are they all fascists too? Is half the country fascists now?
You guys are just as extreme as they are. And just as cultish.
Not only that, the arguments I have had with people here on Lemmy, has done NOTHING to change my mind on the Green Party. I’m looking for to voting Green now, more than ever.
LOL, a “socialist” hesitant to call Republican politicians “fascist”. Yeah, sure. I totally believe you.
I’m confused, what part are you uncertain about?
I said not all Republicans are fascists, and I stand by that. I also don’t think all Republican politicians are fascists.
What part is so surprising to you? Do you think that half of the country is fascist now!?
It’s good when good things happen, yes. Libertarian candidates do spoil Republican votes and that’s a good thing 😄
Thank you, Jo Jorgensen, for narrowly preventing a Republican victory in Michigan in the 2020 presidential race 🫡
So it IS ok when someone does it to the OTHER party, just not yours? Hmmm…
It is good when the most fascistic US political party occasionally suffers from the anti-democratic electoral system in the US, yes.
It’s unfortunate that actual left-leaning third-parties in the US contribute to the spoiler effect, and therefore rightfully catch flack for it, but I won’t stop myself from celebrating the fact that the Libertarian party ruins things for the Republicans.
Actual serious third-parties should be pushing hard in local and state elections, where they actually have some shot of winning. And props to the Green candidates and other nominally left-leaning politicians that actually do that. But Jill Stein and Cornell West only rearing their heads every four years to syphon off votes from the Democrats in presidential races that they will never win, without putting in the work in the local elections, is counter-productive and only aids the right-wing in gaining power.
Sorry, but the spoiler effect is real. And, yes, it’s good when it the Republican party suffers from it, and bad when Democrats suffer from it.
So it’s ok when it happens to the OTHER party, just not when it happens to your party. Hmmm…
Well at least you admit the hypocrisy.
Would you shed a tear for when the spoiler effect happens to hurt fascists? I wouldn’t ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
But why are you so angry about left-leaning third parties then? I mean, you don’t see the hypocrisy in laughing when it happens to republicans but being angry when it happens to democrats?!
Hypocrisy would require that I had some say in the anti-democratic system that we’re all subjected to, but I don’t, so when anti-democratic shit hurts fascists, I take it as a fortunate side-effect to an otherwise fucked up system.
I’m not angry about left-leaning third-parties? I just wish more of the third-parties would put in the necessary work in down-ballot local elections. People like Jill Stein just show up in the presidential race to grift and detract from the total number of votes that the Democrats would get. I would encourage third-party candidates to in down-ballot elections, where they can actually win and make a difference. I vote for those candidates when they run in elections I can vote in. But Jill Stein and Cornell West are clearly just grifting in a race they’ll never win, and in doing so will take away some amount of potentially-Democratic voters.
You have every right to vote for whomever you want, but don’t delude yourself into thinking that voting third-party in a US presidential race is anything more than a virtue signal.
I vote for them in those elections as well.
I’m fine with spoilers harming the Repubs. That party has done an insurrection and is running the leader of the insurrection as their candidate. He is also a rapist. He is also utterly unfit in myriad other ways.
So it’s ok when third parties spoil Republicans, but NOT ok when it’s your party, right? So you don’t mind third parties, right?
I’m not sure what point you think you are making by removing all context and pretending everything is still the same. But I do know you are constantly on here trolling, so I applaud whoever set you off. This is hilarious.
But I’m not trolling. What makes you think I am a troll?
No one set me off at all. Lemmy discussions have ZERO effect on my day-to-day life. I can note replies I get when I am replying. But in my “real” life, none of this discussion has any effect on my mood or my life. I’m not surprised by my downvotes, nor am I surprised by how nasty people can get.
I find it interesting that people get sooooo butthurt simply because I am not voting for their candidate, but that says more about their life than it does mine.
I love my job, love my family, love my gf, and I love my life. I can retire and live happily ever after and just post on Lemmy all day if I want, but I like my job so much, I keep chugging on.
I’m old enough to have voted before most of you all were even born. Why would anything any Lemmy people say to me, “set” me “off”!?
And for people to call me a troll just because I post political news articles to a Lemmy political news site, and it happens to be about parties they may not like, is hilarious to me. Like seriously? Just don’t read them or block me and move on.
I’m not a troll for posting stuff I am interested in. And I don’t only post political news articles.
Are the people that post the multitudes of pro-democrat party articles, “trolls”? Or is that term just reserved for people who don’t think exactly like you do?
because the green party isn’t a serious party they’re just a four year spoiler party financed by republicans.
they should try running in local races if they want to be taken seriously
They do:
Californians have elected 55 of the 226 office-holding Greens nationwide. Other states with high numbers of Green elected officials include Pennsylvania (31), Wisconsin (23), Massachusetts (18) and Maine (17). Maine has the highest per capita number of Green elected officials in the country and the largest Green registration percentage with more than 29,273 Greens comprising 2.95% of the electorate as of November 2006.[68] Madison, Wisconsin is the city with the most Green elected officials (8), followed by Portland, Maine (7).
Also:
https://montanafreepress.org/2024/08/21/green-party-candidate-files-to-join-u-s-senate-race/
https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/news/3127249/eight-green-party-write-ins-will-run-in-the-general-election/