• @taiyang
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    -519 days ago

    Decided to look it up, and the “we’re doing too much for Israel” is only at 40% of Dems, higher than GOPs 30% but it isn’t a majority even of her own party. And it’s an even fewer willing to say no weapons or call it a genecide. It’s certainly more people than it was a few months ago, but if you want the Dems to take a stronger stance, you’ll need to push those poll numbers farther because her messaging is reflecting that.

    Now that’s not to say they’re right, Americans in general aren’t exactly the brightest or most informed bunch (see our response to 9/11, ugh), but representative government is going to reflect public sentiment. If you want to fight for Gaza, find ways to convince your neighbors or family members. If 60% called for a ban on weapons sales, you better believe it’ll be reflected in the platform.

    • @[email protected]
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      19 days ago

      Can you link that poll please? I’ve seen it as well, but can’t find it again.

      I’m pretty sure you’re misrepresenting it, one of the options was “uncertain” at around 35%. “doing too much” was the predominant view.

      This is akin to saying “only 30% of Americans voted for Joe Biden and he somehow still won” neglecting to mention that you’re including non voters.

      • @taiyang
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        19 days ago

        Ok, Google is a bit of a dumpster fire, but here’s a few things retracing my steps:

        https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/americans-views-divided-us-policy-israel-hamas-war/story?id=109879453

        That’s in May, but it’s a more popular link. That and a thing from Chicago foreign affairs which idk as well so I didn’t link it.

        https://www.cnn.com/2024/08/29/politics/israel-gaza-americans-poll-chicago/index.html

        This is two days ago, had to tell Google to look for recent. It’s not what I’m citing but it echoes it. People aren’t thrilled with CNN, but it’s not the only source if you do the time limited search yourself.

        If I didn’t have two kids driving me crazy past their bedtime I’d search out more but the whole ordeal reeks of false consensus bias. Most people want to believe they’re in the majority. But if it makes people feel better, the anti war minority is probably correct (and my guess is the real majority is just ignorance or indifference).

        Edit: it’s 61% saying US is doing well there. Most of it is “somewhat” so it’s not like it’s 5/5 stars. The Chicago one actually is a good read and it’s what the CNN one is based on I think. https://globalaffairs.org/research/public-opinion-survey/americans-see-united-states-playing-positive-role-middle-east

        • @[email protected]
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          1019 days ago

          Yeah, I can’t find the raw numbers which is unfortunate, but I think my point stands. The study you linked is different, 60% of Americans as a whole opposed to just Democrats.

          Among Democrats who actually care about the issue, the majority want restrictions on arms to Israel. This is admittedly whittling things down a bit, but these are the people the Democrats need to win over. There’s a path to victory by getting a coalition of progressives + people who don’t really care. The die-hard “let’s kill more Palestinians” people are just going to vote Republican either way and trying to pander to them is a losing strategy.

          • @taiyang
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            -719 days ago

            I don’t think pro Isreal group are rallying to kill Palestinians, my guess is they see it like how we got with Al Queda after 9/11. It’s a stupid approach to terrorism, though people never learn from (recent) history.

            Also the Chicago one does break it down by party, and yeah, 40% and 30% as you say. Looks like the sample is mentioned a little, about 2k. Probably phone screened. Honestly that’s probably closer to a statistical tie with those saying it’s a good balance + those saying we need more (lol). I like they also asked “is this getting brought up too much”— I’ll admit I’m probably with the ones saying it’s too much, but then again it’s not my biggest issue compared to climate change, education, and so on. Having an unhabitable world is gonna kill a lot more people than this conflict and we’re way more complicit in that. But I digress.

            All I’m saying is if those numbers can be higher, it becomes too toxic to support, you’d see a bigger push on Isreal. You see that with other issues over the last few decades, with LGBTQ, abortion, etc, getting big policy platform shifts when public opinion changes. It’s just remarkable how resistant Isreal opinion is, given this isn’t even their first time fucking with Palestinians.

          • Lightor
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            118 days ago

            Well we broke 60%, I’m waiting

            • @Ensign_Crab
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              -118 days ago

              We? You’re including yourself among people who want to restrict military aid to Israel?

              Why do you want Trump to win?

              • Lightor
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                017 days ago

                We as in the US. Because the comment was made “If 60% called for a ban on weapons sales, you better believe it’ll be reflected in the platform.”

                What is with people like you making wild leaps in bad faith.

                • @Ensign_Crab
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                  117 days ago

                  I was quoting the standard centrist line about anyone who has objections to genocide. I can’t imagine why you hadn’t encountered it before.

                  • Lightor
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                    117 days ago

                    Ah maybe that’s just me, I don’t like to push stereotypes and make sweeping assumptions lol