Yeah, right? AOC is a bad ass until her party is suddenly unfavorable because some of them but not her aren’t supporting Gaza hard enough. But unsurprisingly, none of these people ever complain about Uyghur genocide—the other Muslims.
It’s easy for Jill to be hard on this topic because she knows the presidency is out of her reach. But AOC is still in play, and sadly—in the actual world we live in—she has to play the game to win.
It’s ironic to me that you people can acknowledge that Jill Stein is just virtue signaling from the side lines because it costs her nothing. She’s not actually spending political capital on something that has any chance of happening. She’s just paying it lip service.
You understand this. That’s good.
But then in the same breath, you applaud AOC for saber rattling to pack the supreme court and other ideas that are impossible without a super majority. Which only served to make Biden look weak and disenfranchise progressive voters.
#HRC51 | Draft resolution A/HRC/51/L.6 on holding a debate on the situation of human rights in the Xinjiang Uyghur Autonomous Region of #China, was REJECTED.
That’s not what that means. That’s not what any of that means. And you know it. Why such bad faith arguments? If your argument were rational and logical then the genocide in Gaza isn’t happening either. Because there’s large groups of people that don’t really care about it. Probably even large groups of Muslims who have other larger going concerns than it.
Last month the United States, Britain and other western countries objected to a visit by the United Nations counterterrorism chief to Xinjiang, concerned the visit would validate China’s argument that it was tackling terrorism.
"In the present Convention, genocide means any of the following acts committed with intent to destroy, in whole or in part, a national, ethnical, racial or religious group, as such:
(a) Killing members of the group;
✅ (b) Causing serious bodily or mental harm to members of the group;
"The declarations follow reports that, as well as interning Uyghurs in camps, China has been forcibly mass sterilising Uyghur women to suppress the population, separating children from their families, and attempting to break the cultural traditions of the group.
The US Secretary of State, Antony Blinken, has said China is committing “genocide and crimes against humanity”.
The UK parliament declared in April 2021 that China was committing a genocide in Xinjiang.
A UN human rights committee in 2018 said it had credible reports that China was holding up to a million people in “counter-extremism centres” in Xinjiang.
The Australian Strategic Policy Institute found evidence in 2020 of more than 380 of these “re-education camps” in Xinjiang, an increase of 40% on previous estimates.
Analysis of data contained in the latest police documents, called the Xinjiang Police Files, showed that almost 23,000 residents - or more than 12% of the adult population of one county - were in a camp or prison in the years 2017 and 2018. If applied to Xinjiang as a whole, the figures would mean the detention of more than 1.2 million Uyghur and other Turkic minority adults."
I won’t, but I’ll try to refrain from commenting on it in your communities. (And yes, I’m familiar with the Convention’s definition of genocide and have taken it into account.)
I mean, I could make the exact same garbage argument about you denying the Canadian genocide of the Flemish, which I just made up. Myanmar & Sudan aren’t even germane to the issue, so what’s the point of this diversion?
"In the present Convention, genocide means any of the following acts committed with intent to destroy, in whole or in part, a national, ethnical, racial or religious group, as such:
(a) Killing members of the group;
✅ (b) Causing serious bodily or mental harm to members of the group;
"The declarations follow reports that, as well as interning Uyghurs in camps, China has been forcibly mass sterilising Uyghur women to suppress the population, separating children from their families, and attempting to break the cultural traditions of the group.
The US Secretary of State, Antony Blinken, has said China is committing “genocide and crimes against humanity”.
The UK parliament declared in April 2021 that China was committing a genocide in Xinjiang.
A UN human rights committee in 2018 said it had credible reports that China was holding up to a million people in “counter-extremism centres” in Xinjiang.
The Australian Strategic Policy Institute found evidence in 2020 of more than 380 of these “re-education camps” in Xinjiang, an increase of 40% on previous estimates.
Analysis of data contained in the latest police documents, called the Xinjiang Police Files, showed that almost 23,000 residents - or more than 12% of the adult population of one county - were in a camp or prison in the years 2017 and 2018. If applied to Xinjiang as a whole, the figures would mean the detention of more than 1.2 million Uyghur and other Turkic minority adults."
You are using the people claiming there is a genocide as the source for the claim.
That’s typically how investigations work… There’s an accusation, and then an investigation to find evidence that supports the claim. They aren’t using people as a source for the claim, they’re using the evidence the people gathered.
You on the other hand seem to be focused on who gathered the information instead of what they gathered.
Welcomes** the outcomes of the visit conducted by the General Secretariat’s delegation upon invitation from the People’s Republic of China; commends the efforts of the People’s Republic of China in providing care to its Muslim citizens; and looks forward to further cooperation between the OIC and the People’s Republic of China.
This is anecdotal evidence from a political organization that has a well established history of ignoring the plight of specific Islamic ethnic minorities, including the Kurds in Syria and Turkey, the Ahwaz in Iran, the Hazaras in Afghanistan, the ‘Al-Akhdam’ in Yemen, and the Berbers in Algeria.
Over 50+ UN member states (mostly Muslim-majority nations)
Again, anecdotal evidence which does not detail the accusations, nor how their experience contradicts that accusation.
The World Bank sent a team to investigate in 2019 and found that, “The review did not substantiate the allegations.”
Using this as “evidence” is just academically dishonest. The “team” was a single bank manager, and the “investigation’s” scope was solely to insure that a 50m dollar loan for 3 different schools were not being used to commit crimes against humanity.
The bank claimed that the specific schools they investigated did not substantiate the allegations, however they found enough to decide they wanted to minimize the project.
“In light of the risks associated with the partner schools, which are widely dispersed and difficult to monitor, the scope and footprint of the project is being reduced. Specifically, the project component that involves the partner schools in Xinjiang is being closed.”
China’s mass imprisonment and forced labor of ethnic Uighurs in Xinjiang amounts to crimes against humanity—but there was insufficient evidence to prove genocide
I think you are forgetting the accusations of the population control of an ethnic minority. “The 1948 Convention on the Prevention and Punishment of the Crime of Genocide, which lists birth prevention targeting an ethnic group as one act that could qualify as genocide.”
Comparative Analysis: The War on Terror
Again, a logical fallacy. Just because America has participated in genocide does not mean that China cannot also participate in genocide or crimes against humanity.
Who is driving the Uyghur genocide narrative
Another logical fallacy… You are attacking the man, not the evidence or argument.
He relies heavily on limited and questionable data sources, particularly from anonymous and unverified Uyghur sources, coming up with estimates based on assumptions which are not supported by concrete evidence.
The vast majority of the evidence he’s gathered for his peer reviewed study are gathered directly from public data released by the Chinese government. There have also been some data from a leaked cable, which have been validated by multiple investigative bodies of journalists across the world.
As materialists, we should always look first to the economic base for insight into issues occurring in the superstructure. The Belt and Road Initiative (BRI) is a massive Chinese infrastructure development project that aims to build economic corridors, ports, highways, railways, and other infrastructure projects across Asia, Africa, Europe, and the Middle East. Xinjiang is a key region for this project.
This is a biased interpretation of materialism. A similarly biased claim based on materialism would be that the Belt and Roads initiative motivated china to ethnically cleanse a region vital to the initiative.
On a personal note, I don’t think the lable of genocide is really important. What is important is that an ethnic minority is being abused by a State. And while there is a lot of misinformation and politicing surrounding the topic, there’s still an alarming amount of data that suggest China is forcibly assimilating an ethnic minority group.
It wasn’t obvious, it was a line constructed in fantasy and intended confusion. IAnd the way they argue and respond gives me hardcore troll vibes. These people are here to sow distrust, confusion and despair. In line with a country known for doing this kind of thing, russia.
No, ‘we’ are not. If you take a step back and think about it, it makes perfect sense.
Lots of noise and confusion, distrust, ‘both siding’, etc. And all of that happens magically around…presidential election time.
I will maintain my position, tankies/greenparty are propped up to sow distrust and it is a well known mechanism from russia.
Do I think all these poor lost souls are on a payroll? Of course not, if only they were. You can fix income, mentalissues are much tougher to solve. You can indoctrinate swarms of people to do your bidding if you take the time and effort. Again, exactly what russia decades ago started doing to the west. They are ‘activated’ (throw the right amount of messaging on several social media channels to do so) always, and I mean always, around presidential election time.
A good question to ask would be why it is that Stein person is only in the picture around presidential election times. I never hear about the groundwork of a true party to gain ground on the more ‘boring’ levels that gain no notoriety or attention, like local boards, mayors, etc. Always they spring to life around presidential election times where they stand absolutely no chance. Why is that?
And for greenparty/tankies to start calling other people delusional is just sad. Lost souls is what they are and I fear we will have to say goodbye to them as I see no real way to mend their minds, they are that lost.
A good question to ask would be why it is that Stein person is only in the picture around presidential election times. I never hear about the groundwork of a true party to gain ground on the more ‘boring’ levels that gain no notoriety or attention, like local boards, mayors, etc. Always they spring to life around presidential election times where they stand absolutely no chance. Why is that?
Or maybe it’s because you don’t pay attention (and the media wilgully ignores more radical opinions). I know crazy.
So tell me, which of Stein’s or the Green Party’s policies makes them “tankies” exactly?
This is 100% about them feeling entitled to the Muslim vote and Jill being tied with Harris in polling.
I’m not saying this is the best structured sentence ever, but you need to work on your reading comprehension (though I have a feeling you are being intentionally obtuse).
I mean you are advocating for the democratic party, correct? That would make you a liberal. If you were advocating for Trump or the GOP I’d call you a conservative. You see, my favorite type of person is the liberal who thinks there are only three opposing ideologies, his or hers, whatever is further right of theirs, with which they will side as soon as anyone who is actual left of them challenges them, and tankies. Let me guess, the DSA is also tankies, right? Except for the ones who advocate for the democratic party? Cornell West? Tankie! PSL? TANKREEEEEEEE
That doesn’t fit the narrative in this echo chamber even a little bit. <strawman> <gaslight> <ad hominem> <logical fallacy of your choice> <accusation of bad faith>
I’d like to see your source on that polling data, champ. Also, it’s so funny you fucks turned against AOC.
Yeah, right? AOC is a bad ass until her party is suddenly unfavorable because some of them but not her aren’t supporting Gaza hard enough. But unsurprisingly, none of these people ever complain about Uyghur genocide—the other Muslims.
It’s easy for Jill to be hard on this topic because she knows the presidency is out of her reach. But AOC is still in play, and sadly—in the actual world we live in—she has to play the game to win.
It’s ironic to me that you people can acknowledge that Jill Stein is just virtue signaling from the side lines because it costs her nothing. She’s not actually spending political capital on something that has any chance of happening. She’s just paying it lip service.
You understand this. That’s good.
But then in the same breath, you applaud AOC for saber rattling to pack the supreme court and other ideas that are impossible without a super majority. Which only served to make Biden look weak and disenfranchise progressive voters.
And look how that turned out. Biden left. Now there is actually a shot at beating Trump.
I consider that a success.
You know who else doesn’t complain about it? Other Muslims, because they know it’s bullshit.
https://twitter.com/un_hrc/status/1578003299827171330
That’s not what that means. That’s not what any of that means. And you know it. Why such bad faith arguments? If your argument were rational and logical then the genocide in Gaza isn’t happening either. Because there’s large groups of people that don’t really care about it. Probably even large groups of Muslims who have other larger going concerns than it.
If China really didn’t have anything to hide then they or any other superpower would be willing to allow independent un escorted investigators and journalists and to see the conditions.
It was the United States that blocked that UN visit: https://www.reuters.com/article/us-china-usa-rights/u-s-germany-slam-china-at-u-n-security-council-over-xinjiang-diplomats-idUSKCN1TX2YZ/
Delegates from Muslim countries did visit. From the US’ own propaganda outlet: Arab League Visits China’s Xinjiang Region, Rejects Uyghur Genocide
Speaking of rationality & logic, that sentence is sheer nonsense.
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Best of luck with your censorship efforts.
Me, talking about real genocide.
You, denying genocide.
You, suggesting I’m censoring the right to deny genocide.
Me, still talking about real genocide.
I will indeed do that.
You really need to stop denying genocide.
Article 2 of the genocide convention:
https://ihl-databases.icrc.org/en/ihl-treaties/genocide-conv-1948/article-2
"In the present Convention, genocide means any of the following acts committed with intent to destroy, in whole or in part, a national, ethnical, racial or religious group, as such:
(a) Killing members of the group;
✅ (b) Causing serious bodily or mental harm to members of the group;
✅ © Deliberately inflicting on the group conditions of life calculated to bring about its physical destruction in whole or in part;
✅ (d) Imposing measures intended to prevent births within the group;
✅ (e) Forcibly transferring children of the group to another group."
Source:
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-china-22278037
"The declarations follow reports that, as well as interning Uyghurs in camps, China has been forcibly mass sterilising Uyghur women to suppress the population, separating children from their families, and attempting to break the cultural traditions of the group.
The US Secretary of State, Antony Blinken, has said China is committing “genocide and crimes against humanity”.
The UK parliament declared in April 2021 that China was committing a genocide in Xinjiang.
A UN human rights committee in 2018 said it had credible reports that China was holding up to a million people in “counter-extremism centres” in Xinjiang.
The Australian Strategic Policy Institute found evidence in 2020 of more than 380 of these “re-education camps” in Xinjiang, an increase of 40% on previous estimates.
Analysis of data contained in the latest police documents, called the Xinjiang Police Files, showed that almost 23,000 residents - or more than 12% of the adult population of one county - were in a camp or prison in the years 2017 and 2018. If applied to Xinjiang as a whole, the figures would mean the detention of more than 1.2 million Uyghur and other Turkic minority adults."
I won’t, but I’ll try to refrain from commenting on it in your communities. (And yes, I’m familiar with the Convention’s definition of genocide and have taken it into account.)
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What about the Rohingya in Myanmar, or Sudan? Are those propaganda too? Or do they not qualify because it doesn’t fit your narrative?
I mean, I could make the exact same garbage argument about you denying the Canadian genocide of the Flemish, which I just made up. Myanmar & Sudan aren’t even germane to the issue, so what’s the point of this diversion?
So you acknowledge that you’re disregarding them as genocides?
No. The only person who brought them up was you, and for some reason you’re still doing it.
Is this some attempt at, “Have you stopped beating your wife?”
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“Fake Uyghyr claims”? Removed for genocide denial.
According to article 2 of the genocide convention, actual killing is not necessary for a genocide.
https://ihl-databases.icrc.org/en/ihl-treaties/genocide-conv-1948/article-2
"In the present Convention, genocide means any of the following acts committed with intent to destroy, in whole or in part, a national, ethnical, racial or religious group, as such:
(a) Killing members of the group;
✅ (b) Causing serious bodily or mental harm to members of the group;
✅ © Deliberately inflicting on the group conditions of life calculated to bring about its physical destruction in whole or in part;
✅ (d) Imposing measures intended to prevent births within the group;
✅ (e) Forcibly transferring children of the group to another group."
Source:
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-china-22278037
"The declarations follow reports that, as well as interning Uyghurs in camps, China has been forcibly mass sterilising Uyghur women to suppress the population, separating children from their families, and attempting to break the cultural traditions of the group.
The US Secretary of State, Antony Blinken, has said China is committing “genocide and crimes against humanity”.
The UK parliament declared in April 2021 that China was committing a genocide in Xinjiang.
A UN human rights committee in 2018 said it had credible reports that China was holding up to a million people in “counter-extremism centres” in Xinjiang.
The Australian Strategic Policy Institute found evidence in 2020 of more than 380 of these “re-education camps” in Xinjiang, an increase of 40% on previous estimates.
Analysis of data contained in the latest police documents, called the Xinjiang Police Files, showed that almost 23,000 residents - or more than 12% of the adult population of one county - were in a camp or prison in the years 2017 and 2018. If applied to Xinjiang as a whole, the figures would mean the detention of more than 1.2 million Uyghur and other Turkic minority adults."
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That’s typically how investigations work… There’s an accusation, and then an investigation to find evidence that supports the claim. They aren’t using people as a source for the claim, they’re using the evidence the people gathered.
You on the other hand seem to be focused on who gathered the information instead of what they gathered.
This is anecdotal evidence from a political organization that has a well established history of ignoring the plight of specific Islamic ethnic minorities, including the Kurds in Syria and Turkey, the Ahwaz in Iran, the Hazaras in Afghanistan, the ‘Al-Akhdam’ in Yemen, and the Berbers in Algeria.
Again, anecdotal evidence which does not detail the accusations, nor how their experience contradicts that accusation.
Using this as “evidence” is just academically dishonest. The “team” was a single bank manager, and the “investigation’s” scope was solely to insure that a 50m dollar loan for 3 different schools were not being used to commit crimes against humanity.
The bank claimed that the specific schools they investigated did not substantiate the allegations, however they found enough to decide they wanted to minimize the project.
“In light of the risks associated with the partner schools, which are widely dispersed and difficult to monitor, the scope and footprint of the project is being reduced. Specifically, the project component that involves the partner schools in Xinjiang is being closed.”
I think you are forgetting the accusations of the population control of an ethnic minority. “The 1948 Convention on the Prevention and Punishment of the Crime of Genocide, which lists birth prevention targeting an ethnic group as one act that could qualify as genocide.”
Again, a logical fallacy. Just because America has participated in genocide does not mean that China cannot also participate in genocide or crimes against humanity.
Another logical fallacy… You are attacking the man, not the evidence or argument.
The vast majority of the evidence he’s gathered for his peer reviewed study are gathered directly from public data released by the Chinese government. There have also been some data from a leaked cable, which have been validated by multiple investigative bodies of journalists across the world.
This is a biased interpretation of materialism. A similarly biased claim based on materialism would be that the Belt and Roads initiative motivated china to ethnically cleanse a region vital to the initiative.
On a personal note, I don’t think the lable of genocide is really important. What is important is that an ethnic minority is being abused by a State. And while there is a lot of misinformation and politicing surrounding the topic, there’s still an alarming amount of data that suggest China is forcibly assimilating an ethnic minority group.
So you can’t say you’re for the Palestinians when you’re actively willfully ignoring all other genocides.
I’m not ignoring them, Im not the one trying to create a strawman.
Like you saying, the Uyghur genocide is US propaganda.
Sorry, but calling someone out on their strawmaning is misinfo/trolling, apparently. I don’t make the rules 🤷
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Obviously they meant “tied for the Muslim vote”
https://www.cair.com/wp-content/uploads/2024/08/CAIRMuslimVoterSurvey.pdf
This data is echoed by FiveThirtyEight
It wasn’t obvious, it was a line constructed in fantasy and intended confusion. IAnd the way they argue and respond gives me hardcore troll vibes. These people are here to sow distrust, confusion and despair. In line with a country known for doing this kind of thing, russia.
Tankies = Green Party
It really is as simple as that.
You people are delusional.
No, ‘we’ are not. If you take a step back and think about it, it makes perfect sense.
Lots of noise and confusion, distrust, ‘both siding’, etc. And all of that happens magically around…presidential election time.
I will maintain my position, tankies/greenparty are propped up to sow distrust and it is a well known mechanism from russia. Do I think all these poor lost souls are on a payroll? Of course not, if only they were. You can fix income, mentalissues are much tougher to solve. You can indoctrinate swarms of people to do your bidding if you take the time and effort. Again, exactly what russia decades ago started doing to the west. They are ‘activated’ (throw the right amount of messaging on several social media channels to do so) always, and I mean always, around presidential election time.
A good question to ask would be why it is that Stein person is only in the picture around presidential election times. I never hear about the groundwork of a true party to gain ground on the more ‘boring’ levels that gain no notoriety or attention, like local boards, mayors, etc. Always they spring to life around presidential election times where they stand absolutely no chance. Why is that?
And for greenparty/tankies to start calling other people delusional is just sad. Lost souls is what they are and I fear we will have to say goodbye to them as I see no real way to mend their minds, they are that lost.
Or maybe it’s because you don’t pay attention (and the media wilgully ignores more radical opinions). I know crazy.
So tell me, which of Stein’s or the Green Party’s policies makes them “tankies” exactly?
Not the policies, I talked about the people advocating for that party
So nothing, just ad-hominem. Got it!
Not obvious
I’m not saying this is the best structured sentence ever, but you need to work on your reading comprehension (though I have a feeling you are being intentionally obtuse).
You’re simping for Stein and thus Trump all over the thread
Yeah that’s just plain fucking false equivalence. But I suppose libs aren’t one logical fallacy short of enlightenment, so that tracks.
My favorite type of person is one who thinks anyone who disagrees with their wrong opinions is a lIbErAl, whatever the fuck that even means.
I mean you are advocating for the democratic party, correct? That would make you a liberal. If you were advocating for Trump or the GOP I’d call you a conservative. You see, my favorite type of person is the liberal who thinks there are only three opposing ideologies, his or hers, whatever is further right of theirs, with which they will side as soon as anyone who is actual left of them challenges them, and tankies. Let me guess, the DSA is also tankies, right? Except for the ones who advocate for the democratic party? Cornell West? Tankie! PSL? TANKREEEEEEEE
Love me, love me, I’m a liberal.
Well that’s definitely not what the word means, but also no. It means I understand us elections and am also not a sociopath
That doesn’t fit the narrative in this echo chamber even a little bit. <strawman> <gaslight> <ad hominem> <logical fallacy of your choice> <accusation of bad faith>
You picked a very fitting username
AOC has always been garbage. As requested