26,000 people in Paris. That’s basically nothing, the NFP militants came out but there’s no popular support for the protest beyond that.
For the left to call itself “the winner” was a mistake: not only do they control 1/3 of the parlement only, but by refusing all compromise and branding Macron’s party “the enemy” they were guaranteed to never be able to gather more support for their bills. It’s so bad that they were seriously discussing passing some bill on pension reform with the help of the far right.
In a time when avoiding a far right government should be his first concern, I strangely mostly read about him shooting against the left, talking about how dangerous they supposedly are. Looking at it from the outside it sure looks like he branded himself the enemy.
Just like most “conservatives” around the globe, when it comes down to democracy vs corporate profits, he knows which side he’s on.
The French left has been consistently fighting the far right, vocally so, even withdrawing candidates in favor of Macron against the far right. What are you even talking about?
What the guy you reply to said is factually incorrect. While the French left despises Macron and his clique, they did withdraw candidates in the last election in his favor to keep the fascists out of power.
And they’ve always been vocal about their contempt for the far right.
Not much no. The far right strategy for the past few years has been to be quiet and appear moderate and dignified, so as to shed their image of fascist extremists. (and yes, that seems to work)
Any compromise with Macron is unfortunately impossible. There is no way a single measure of the NFP would have gotten adopted if they had bent the knee. Macron wouldn’t have made any compromise. They’re much more efficient in the opposition than they are as lapdogs to the neoliberals.
And, sure, the far right should never be an ally, but if the idiots are going to follow you, why tell them to fuck off? That would be pretty stupid, and this is an example of the sectarism you decry. To you, sectarism is when you disagree with the neolibs, I suppose?
Meanwhile, Macron chose a bigot that shits on migrants and voted against the decriminalization of homosexuality as a prime minister and the RN has vowed not vote out, and that doesn’t bother you one bit.
Like, the fuck are you even blabbering about dude? You’re so full of shit it’s not even funny.
Any compromise with Macron is unfortunately impossible. There is no way a single measure of the NFP would have gotten adopted if they had bent the knee
Of course there are. There’s plenty of ideological overlap on public services, LGBT rights, the environment.
And, sure, the far right should never be an ally, but if the idiots are going to follow you, why tell them to fuck off?
Because when the situation was reversed and the far right voted along with Macron’s party, the left cried about a supposed “alliance with the fascists”.
voted against the decriminalization of homosexuality
This is outright misinformation. He voted against lowering the age of consent for gay sex with minors from 18 to 15 yo. And that was more than 40 years ago too. Homosexuality is legal in France since basically the French revolution back in the 18th century.
You’re so full of shit it’s not even funny.
Says the guy broadcasting fake news.
And, sure, the far right should never be an ally, but if the idiots are going to follow you, why tell them to fuck off?
First off, I’d like to acknowledge that my representation of Barnier does not paint an accurate picture, and that you were right, because I didn’t know the full extent of the truth. More on that later.
About Macron being compatible with the French left that won the legislative elections:
Macron is hell-bent on dismantling public service, only pays lip service to environmental causes and works with bigots against the extension of rights for the LGBTQ, despite paying lip service (again) advocating for societal progressive agenda. His government was part of the ridiculous moral panic fighting wokism †, for fuck’s sake.
The left being tamed means their agenda is completely nullified as they get absorbed into the center-right, which the French electors majoritarily reject. And it’s not like it hasn’t been tried before. Hollande’s term proved it doesn’t work, and its rejection proven by the choice of Hamon to represent the most important milquetoast “left” party proves how unpopular the liberal line is amongst the most moderate fractions of the Lefts, disregarding every ideological concepts about socialist conceptions of society.
People voting for the retirement age to be 60 will never agree with people saying it should be 70. The French electorate fully expects the Left to fight liberalism, and to not be satisfied with “mitigation” measures such as the construction of bike lanes in Paris or the distribution of cheques to buy manga.
About the left crying wolf when the far right supported liberal policy:
It’s not so much about about who agrees with who but more about policy. If the left shouts about “moderate” parties doing the far right’s bidding, then it makes sense, because we go through the pain of voting for liberals to keep fascists out of office, and we deservedly expect them to prevent the fascist agenda from materializing.
If they cry wolf just to spark outrage, it’s opportunistic and I will acknowledge they’re wrong. I trust you to show me that’s what they’ve done. Until then, I’ll still welcome the votes of the fascists for measures that protect the most vulnerable, even if it doesn’t make sense according to their contradictory ideology.
About Barnier being against the decriminilization of homosexuality, you tell me it’s not true wholesale (and you’re right about that), but you fail to realize how this confirms how bigoted he is ★ He still voted against decriminilization for a portion of all gay people (which you tacitly acknowledge), which makes it only slightly less bad. Oh, and I forgot to mention he also voted against civil unions ‡ much later, which helps cement him as a bigot which the left should refuse to associate with.
Macron’s government has also passed many left-oriented bills: 1 € meals for poor student, free contraceptive and morning after pills, culture check for youth, increased paternity leave, alleviating the SNCF debt, coverage of listening and dental prosthesis, subsidies for increasing housing insulation or repairing clothes, higher taxation on polluting cars, the shutdown of the airport project in Nantes, surrogate mothers, etc. You are telling me none of this could be worked on further with the left?
People voting for the retirement age to be 60 will never agree with people saying it should be 70.
For one nobody is saying it should be 70, for two the 60 year age is being quietly dropped by the left. Everyone knows we ain’t going back to the 1981 age, given the demography.
But the centre and left can recognize there’s an obvious demographic and financial issue. And surely can find a compromise where people with long career and hard labor retire early, and those with office jobs and long studies can probably retire a bit later. In other countries like Germany, alliances ranging from far left to centre right can work on compromises and agree on a single program. It’s perfectly doable to find middle ground.
but you fail to realize how this confirms how bigoted
I think you fail to realize that in 1982, perspectives on LGBT issues were FAR FAR different than they are today. Huguette Bello, a communist which was proposed as a prime minister by the left, refused to support gay marriage, and that was in 2013 not 1982. But she is not a bigot and Barnier is?
Public services do seem to be deteriorating in France, it comes from the mouth of liberals themselves. It’s a trend that has all but shifted in the 30ish years I’ve had the chance to be alive with the West being under the yoke of liberals of all professed kinds.
The Macron regime has brought too little measures, too late. And for one small step it’s taken forward, it made two backwards (retirement age being a HUGE one).
What does the 1€ meal bring if public money is going to end up in private hands, driving up inflation? The culture check you mention is a laughable demagogic measure (one would say, “popullist”) if I ever saw one. Sure you don’t have a job or any economic prospects, but at least you can buy manga, public money that will once again end up in private pockets. That’s not what left wing politics are about.
When do we get rid of parisitic media like the foul stuff brought by Bolloré et al? Why did the Macron regime try to restructure Radio France in prevision of a private buyout before the dissolution of parliament? I thought we had a media concentration problem? Also, when do we stop filling the pockets of the already-rich (cf ISF)?
The feminist measures (glad the French have them!) surely don’t outweigh the islamophobic panic reinforced by stupid measures about the type of garment you can wear in public? Oh, and when do the French get the long promised right to die in dignity yet?
I’m glad there’s a couple things that will materially impact the living conditions of French citizens (dental care is cool!), but it’s too little, way too late. I’d say I can accept a few liberal measures in an ocean of actual anticapitalist measures, not the other way around. We don’t have time for that shit with the climate crisis. We can’t act as if things were business as usual.
It’s quite ironic that the libs would criticize the French left’s fiscal responsibility. They manage to accomplish the herculean task of delivering very few things in 7 years with an impressive deficit. How cool is that?
She did not explicitly vote against gay marriage (abstained) and celebrated the union of two men a few months after the vote. Hardly a vocal opponent against gay marriage, and a far cry from the bigoted votes of Barnier. Sure, that means she wasn’t LGBTQ-concious or an ally, but, oh boy, talk about misrepresentation of facts! I’d accept any public apology from the Boutin’s and the Maréchal’s and the Sarkozy-aligned, in which cast I’d retract my accusations of bigotry… But I think I shouldn’t hold my breath. They will be bigoted when enacting societal policy in France, and Macron knows it bloody well.
26,000 people in Paris. That’s basically nothing, the NFP militants came out but there’s no popular support for the protest beyond that.
For the left to call itself “the winner” was a mistake: not only do they control 1/3 of the parlement only, but by refusing all compromise and branding Macron’s party “the enemy” they were guaranteed to never be able to gather more support for their bills. It’s so bad that they were seriously discussing passing some bill on pension reform with the help of the far right.
In a time when avoiding a far right government should be his first concern, I strangely mostly read about him shooting against the left, talking about how dangerous they supposedly are. Looking at it from the outside it sure looks like he branded himself the enemy.
Just like most “conservatives” around the globe, when it comes down to democracy vs corporate profits, he knows which side he’s on.
That’s because the left has also been shooting mostly against his government as well, while ignoring the far right.
The French left has been consistently fighting the far right, vocally so, even withdrawing candidates in favor of Macron against the far right. What are you even talking about?
And the far right hasn’t done the same?
What the guy you reply to said is factually incorrect. While the French left despises Macron and his clique, they did withdraw candidates in the last election in his favor to keep the fascists out of power.
And they’ve always been vocal about their contempt for the far right.
Not much no. The far right strategy for the past few years has been to be quiet and appear moderate and dignified, so as to shed their image of fascist extremists. (and yes, that seems to work)
Any compromise with Macron is unfortunately impossible. There is no way a single measure of the NFP would have gotten adopted if they had bent the knee. Macron wouldn’t have made any compromise. They’re much more efficient in the opposition than they are as lapdogs to the neoliberals.
And, sure, the far right should never be an ally, but if the idiots are going to follow you, why tell them to fuck off? That would be pretty stupid, and this is an example of the sectarism you decry. To you, sectarism is when you disagree with the neolibs, I suppose?
Meanwhile, Macron chose a bigot that shits on migrants and voted against the decriminalization of homosexuality as a prime minister and the RN has vowed not vote out, and that doesn’t bother you one bit.
Like, the fuck are you even blabbering about dude? You’re so full of shit it’s not even funny.
Of course there are. There’s plenty of ideological overlap on public services, LGBT rights, the environment.
Because when the situation was reversed and the far right voted along with Macron’s party, the left cried about a supposed “alliance with the fascists”.
This is outright misinformation. He voted against lowering the age of consent for gay sex with minors from 18 to 15 yo. And that was more than 40 years ago too. Homosexuality is legal in France since basically the French revolution back in the 18th century.
Says the guy broadcasting fake news.
First off, I’d like to acknowledge that my representation of Barnier does not paint an accurate picture, and that you were right, because I didn’t know the full extent of the truth. More on that later.
About Macron being compatible with the French left that won the legislative elections:
Macron is hell-bent on dismantling public service, only pays lip service to environmental causes and works with bigots against the extension of rights for the LGBTQ, despite paying lip service (again) advocating for societal progressive agenda. His government was part of the ridiculous moral panic fighting wokism †, for fuck’s sake.
The left being tamed means their agenda is completely nullified as they get absorbed into the center-right, which the French electors majoritarily reject. And it’s not like it hasn’t been tried before. Hollande’s term proved it doesn’t work, and its rejection proven by the choice of Hamon to represent the most important milquetoast “left” party proves how unpopular the liberal line is amongst the most moderate fractions of the Lefts, disregarding every ideological concepts about socialist conceptions of society.
People voting for the retirement age to be 60 will never agree with people saying it should be 70. The French electorate fully expects the Left to fight liberalism, and to not be satisfied with “mitigation” measures such as the construction of bike lanes in Paris or the distribution of cheques to buy manga.
About the left crying wolf when the far right supported liberal policy:
It’s not so much about about who agrees with who but more about policy. If the left shouts about “moderate” parties doing the far right’s bidding, then it makes sense, because we go through the pain of voting for liberals to keep fascists out of office, and we deservedly expect them to prevent the fascist agenda from materializing.
If they cry wolf just to spark outrage, it’s opportunistic and I will acknowledge they’re wrong. I trust you to show me that’s what they’ve done. Until then, I’ll still welcome the votes of the fascists for measures that protect the most vulnerable, even if it doesn’t make sense according to their contradictory ideology.
About Barnier being against the decriminilization of homosexuality, you tell me it’s not true wholesale (and you’re right about that), but you fail to realize how this confirms how bigoted he is ★ He still voted against decriminilization for a portion of all gay people (which you tacitly acknowledge), which makes it only slightly less bad. Oh, and I forgot to mention he also voted against civil unions ‡ much later, which helps cement him as a bigot which the left should refuse to associate with.
Not the slam dunk argument you thought it was.
† https://www.ouest-france.fr/societe/c-est-quoi-le-wokisme-cette-ideologie-que-jean-michel-blanquer-dit-vouloir-combattre-22b58616-2cc1-11ec-9285-f388b2ea32b0
★ https://www.lefigaro.fr/politique/quel-etrange-message-le-vote-de-barnier-contre-la-depenalisation-de-l-homosexualite-en-1981-revolte-la-gauche-20240905
‡ https://www.nouvelobs.com/politique/20240906.OBS93266/ivg-homosexualite-tabagisme-comment-a-vote-michel-barnier-a-l-assemblee-quand-il-etait-depute.html
This is a complete myth: France public spending has never been this high (yes, even adjusted for inflation). France has never had so many public employees. France’s health care spending has grown (fast) every year. Taxes have not significantly been dropped either.
Macron’s government has also passed many left-oriented bills: 1 € meals for poor student, free contraceptive and morning after pills, culture check for youth, increased paternity leave, alleviating the SNCF debt, coverage of listening and dental prosthesis, subsidies for increasing housing insulation or repairing clothes, higher taxation on polluting cars, the shutdown of the airport project in Nantes, surrogate mothers, etc. You are telling me none of this could be worked on further with the left?
For one nobody is saying it should be 70, for two the 60 year age is being quietly dropped by the left. Everyone knows we ain’t going back to the 1981 age, given the demography.
But the centre and left can recognize there’s an obvious demographic and financial issue. And surely can find a compromise where people with long career and hard labor retire early, and those with office jobs and long studies can probably retire a bit later. In other countries like Germany, alliances ranging from far left to centre right can work on compromises and agree on a single program. It’s perfectly doable to find middle ground.
I think you fail to realize that in 1982, perspectives on LGBT issues were FAR FAR different than they are today. Huguette Bello, a communist which was proposed as a prime minister by the left, refused to support gay marriage, and that was in 2013 not 1982. But she is not a bigot and Barnier is?
Funny that you would mention that, I was reading liberal propaganda not two minutes ago, and then this came: https://www.lemonde.fr/idees/article/2024/09/10/l-erreur-budgetaire-majeure-de-l-allemagne-emporte-toute-l-europe-avec-elle_6310318_3232.html
Public services do seem to be deteriorating in France, it comes from the mouth of liberals themselves. It’s a trend that has all but shifted in the 30ish years I’ve had the chance to be alive with the West being under the yoke of liberals of all professed kinds.
The Macron regime has brought too little measures, too late. And for one small step it’s taken forward, it made two backwards (retirement age being a HUGE one).
What does the 1€ meal bring if public money is going to end up in private hands, driving up inflation? The culture check you mention is a laughable demagogic measure (one would say, “popullist”) if I ever saw one. Sure you don’t have a job or any economic prospects, but at least you can buy manga, public money that will once again end up in private pockets. That’s not what left wing politics are about.
When do we get rid of parisitic media like the foul stuff brought by Bolloré et al? Why did the Macron regime try to restructure Radio France in prevision of a private buyout before the dissolution of parliament? I thought we had a media concentration problem? Also, when do we stop filling the pockets of the already-rich (cf ISF)?
The feminist measures (glad the French have them!) surely don’t outweigh the islamophobic panic reinforced by stupid measures about the type of garment you can wear in public? Oh, and when do the French get the long promised right to die in dignity yet?
I’m glad there’s a couple things that will materially impact the living conditions of French citizens (dental care is cool!), but it’s too little, way too late. I’d say I can accept a few liberal measures in an ocean of actual anticapitalist measures, not the other way around. We don’t have time for that shit with the climate crisis. We can’t act as if things were business as usual.
It’s quite ironic that the libs would criticize the French left’s fiscal responsibility. They manage to accomplish the herculean task of delivering very few things in 7 years with an impressive deficit. How cool is that?
Regarding Bello, the truth is a bit more complex: https://www.huffingtonpost.fr/politique/article/huguette-bello-a-matignon-pourquoi-ca-coince-pour-le-profil-presque-parfait-degote-par-le-nfp_236861.html
She did not explicitly vote against gay marriage (abstained) and celebrated the union of two men a few months after the vote. Hardly a vocal opponent against gay marriage, and a far cry from the bigoted votes of Barnier. Sure, that means she wasn’t LGBTQ-concious or an ally, but, oh boy, talk about misrepresentation of facts! I’d accept any public apology from the Boutin’s and the Maréchal’s and the Sarkozy-aligned, in which cast I’d retract my accusations of bigotry… But I think I shouldn’t hold my breath. They will be bigoted when enacting societal policy in France, and Macron knows it bloody well.