On June 11th, 2024, we discovered a set of vulnerabilities in Kia vehicles that allowed remote control over key functions using only a license plate. These attacks could be executed remotely on any hardware-equipped vehicle in about 30 seconds, regardless of whether it had an active Kia Connect subscription.
A bit, I have a huge collection of CDs ripped to MP3 that are nowhere else digital streaming
I find the weird weird thing is to listen to local radio or satellite radio. I only do it for short trips where the radio turns on automatically and it’s not worth the time to put decent music from the phone.
Things like live traffic require a connection though, and Google maps I think does the routing calcs off the device. Most people will use their phone for all that, but the use case is there.
I think the point is that there isn’t a good enough reason to put internet in a car that negates the risk of it.
It is like adding lead to food. It’s a cheap sweetener with no calories. You can argue that cheap sweeteners aren’t important to you, but I don’t think you can argue that it isn’t a good reason. It just isn’t a good enough reason to negate the risk.
not good enough means the downsides highly, severely outweigh the upsides. It’s not that “I wouldn’t use it and then you shouldn’t have it either”, it’s that there are very good reasons to not have these in my car, or anyone’s really, in a way where they cannot be removed!
the first bunch provides info and abilities that are only relevant when you are in the car. this is like wanting to know your house’s temperature when you are in the store, or on vacation. what the fuck you do with that information?
the remaining about the alarm and it being stolen, what are you going to do with this? go after them with your 4th car and a shotgun? let’s hope they did not disconnect the batteries…
if you absolutely cannot live without these, you should by an extension that does this, instead of forcing this shit on everyone
I don’t know what “the first bunch” is so I can’t answer that but these are all definitely use while away from the car.
sorry, I wanted to mean these:
My car reminds me if the doors are unlocked or left open. I can adjust the charging speed at any time. I can turn on the HVAC and seat heaters before I leave. I can see my current state of charge. I can see exactly what is happening when my alarm goes off
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Is that a real question? You’re going to figure out why your alarm is going off, and if it’s stolen you’re going to give it to the police so they can recover it…
yes, why do you need a moving, online accessible high quality surveillance camera system is a real question.
I don’t think you need this to report it to the police, the loud alarm and policeman on the road searching for the stolen car has worked well for decades. or at least I haven’t heard of car theft in… a pretty long time, so long that I don’t even remember.
I dunno what an “extension” is but pretty sure it doesn’t exist or can’t do these things.
oh it would exist if laws would force car makers to not place unremovable tracking systems in the car by default.
but I that being said, think these tings do exist, in the form of little devices thay you can connect to your car’s OBD port, and they have a GPS receiver and a SIM slot to do it’s job.
That’s a very subjective take. My friends and family that live in hot climates love the ability to remotely turn on and pre-cool their vehicles. I appreciate being able to check if I remembered to lock the doors.
Thats precisely what I’m referring to- these things being possible when you’re inside of a store, restaurant, or an extreme case like you parked at the airport for a trip.
There are “two-way” remote start kits that have a display on the fob to report back AC state, engine remaining run time, and door lock state. It also helps for making sure the button you pressed actually reached the car.
And by using that internet connected feature you’re 100% handing out your driving info to your car manufacturer, who in turn will sell it to LexisNexis, who in turn will sell it to insurance companies, who in turn will jack up your insurance prices.
Sure, that sucks. But I’m not saying there are zero downsides, I’m specifically countering the argument that there are “no good reasons” with my personal good reasons.
it really depends whether that counts as a good reason. for us the downsides highly outweigh the upsides.
and yes, I know what it’s like to sit in a hot car when I just got back to it on the hot summer day. but I can really wait 2 minutes outside the car when it’s that bad
Man, I’ll never understand this “car is too hot for me to sit in” to be honest. Lmao. Sounds to me like people are too spoiled and this is something kids say. Come one, you really think of this is as an issue? I don’t even have an ac in my car. It broke over 4 years ago and I never fixed it. But for each their own I guess.
LOL. I don’t live in a hot climate? How about the middle east? Does that sound hot enough? I grew up living in a tent. A literal tent until I was about 20, then my father decided to build a house. Then that house had no power until 2008. And our weather there can get to 130+ easily. So, imagine that heat. Imagine how getting into a car would feel. Here is a photo I took of a thermometer I took in June of 2009. It was around 1 pm. I was on a military base that day. It won’t kill you, you will be fine. Open your windows and wait outside a little so you don’t melt. lol
it was a fucking example, man. but there are places where if you left the car in the direct sun on the summer, a few hours later it will have 40-45 °C or so in there.
A) you can survive without precooling or set it to start before getting deep into the store.
B)if you want that feature fine, but leave it off everyone else’s car! No cell connections should be installed by default like this. It’s a walking cve list waiting to happen.
There’s just no good reason to have anything beyond the radio/nav etc in a car connected to the Internet. Remote start can be done with just the key.
You know what fuck builtin nav. Connect it to my phone and let that be it for navigation.
And same for music. What year is this 2010?
I like using the built in radio rather than my phone for music, but it doesn’t need an internet connection, just a flash drive.
I suppose I’m a weirdo for not using Spotify like most people nowadays though
I use my phone for music… but i have a 256GB sd card installed in it.
A bit, I have a huge collection of CDs ripped to MP3 that are nowhere else digital streaming
I find the weird weird thing is to listen to local radio or satellite radio. I only do it for short trips where the radio turns on automatically and it’s not worth the time to put decent music from the phone.
Plus if you use your phone for nav you can use whatever maps you like. My city is mapped pretty good on openstreetmap so that’s what I use.
I would say even those don’t need Internet. Navigation can be updated using a USB drive, and I have a phone for audio so I just need bluetooth.
The only network connection I want in my car is to notify emergency services if the airbags go off.
Things like live traffic require a connection though, and Google maps I think does the routing calcs off the device. Most people will use their phone for all that, but the use case is there.
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I think the point is that there isn’t a good enough reason to put internet in a car that negates the risk of it.
It is like adding lead to food. It’s a cheap sweetener with no calories. You can argue that cheap sweeteners aren’t important to you, but I don’t think you can argue that it isn’t a good reason. It just isn’t a good enough reason to negate the risk.
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if its not a good enough reason, that’s literally not a good reason
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you have misunderstood something.
not good enough means the downsides highly, severely outweigh the upsides. It’s not that “I wouldn’t use it and then you shouldn’t have it either”, it’s that there are very good reasons to not have these in my car, or anyone’s really, in a way where they cannot be removed!
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once again, no, they don’t
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Obviously with your key that can already open the doors remotely
frankly they aren’t good reasons.
the first bunch provides info and abilities that are only relevant when you are in the car. this is like wanting to know your house’s temperature when you are in the store, or on vacation. what the fuck you do with that information?
the remaining about the alarm and it being stolen, what are you going to do with this? go after them with your 4th car and a shotgun? let’s hope they did not disconnect the batteries…
if you absolutely cannot live without these, you should by an extension that does this, instead of forcing this shit on everyone
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sorry, I wanted to mean these:
_
yes, why do you need a moving, online accessible high quality surveillance camera system is a real question.
I don’t think you need this to report it to the police, the loud alarm and policeman on the road searching for the stolen car has worked well for decades. or at least I haven’t heard of car theft in… a pretty long time, so long that I don’t even remember.
oh it would exist if laws would force car makers to not place unremovable tracking systems in the car by default.
but I that being said, think these tings do exist, in the form of little devices thay you can connect to your car’s OBD port, and they have a GPS receiver and a SIM slot to do it’s job.
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obviously not. what we are discussing is optional and voluntary, because it is removable
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These sound like “value-add module purchased at or after time of sale” reasons.
In short, they’re features and not requirements.
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That’s a very subjective take. My friends and family that live in hot climates love the ability to remotely turn on and pre-cool their vehicles. I appreciate being able to check if I remembered to lock the doors.
Both of those functions have been available via key fob for at least a decade, no internet required. Though yes the range on that can be limited.
Thats precisely what I’m referring to- these things being possible when you’re inside of a store, restaurant, or an extreme case like you parked at the airport for a trip.
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There are “two-way” remote start kits that have a display on the fob to report back AC state, engine remaining run time, and door lock state. It also helps for making sure the button you pressed actually reached the car.
Some of us still remember Wise Guys and want that range! ;-)
And by using that internet connected feature you’re 100% handing out your driving info to your car manufacturer, who in turn will sell it to LexisNexis, who in turn will sell it to insurance companies, who in turn will jack up your insurance prices.
Sure, that sucks. But I’m not saying there are zero downsides, I’m specifically countering the argument that there are “no good reasons” with my personal good reasons.
it really depends whether that counts as a good reason. for us the downsides highly outweigh the upsides.
and yes, I know what it’s like to sit in a hot car when I just got back to it on the hot summer day. but I can really wait 2 minutes outside the car when it’s that bad
Man, I’ll never understand this “car is too hot for me to sit in” to be honest. Lmao. Sounds to me like people are too spoiled and this is something kids say. Come one, you really think of this is as an issue? I don’t even have an ac in my car. It broke over 4 years ago and I never fixed it. But for each their own I guess.
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LOL. I don’t live in a hot climate? How about the middle east? Does that sound hot enough? I grew up living in a tent. A literal tent until I was about 20, then my father decided to build a house. Then that house had no power until 2008. And our weather there can get to 130+ easily. So, imagine that heat. Imagine how getting into a car would feel. Here is a photo I took of a thermometer I took in June of 2009. It was around 1 pm. I was on a military base that day. It won’t kill you, you will be fine. Open your windows and wait outside a little so you don’t melt. lol
doubtful if that thermometer worked well.
40+ °C is dangerous and can be lethal, but of course not immediately, instead as your body heats up
https://biology.stackexchange.com/questions/546/whats-the-maximum-and-minimum-temperature-a-human-can-survive
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it was a fucking example, man. but there are places where if you left the car in the direct sun on the summer, a few hours later it will have 40-45 °C or so in there.
As I said in my comment, that can be done with the key, no Internet connection needed.
As for the lock thing, I just need to look if my mirrors are folded in or not.
The fob won’t work if you’re deep inside a store, will it? Same for checking the mirrors.
A) you can survive without precooling or set it to start before getting deep into the store.
B)if you want that feature fine, but leave it off everyone else’s car! No cell connections should be installed by default like this. It’s a walking cve list waiting to happen.
😭