Call me paranoid, but I wouldn’t be surprised if Bibi’s insane escalations have two reasons. Both to keep the war tempo up (and thus the excuse to keep him in power and out of jail), and to dare the Dems to come out against him. Either they don’t, and prove they’re whipped; or they do, and open themselves up to a new line of attack. Bibi’s blatant alliance with the GOP is well-known.
I think Bibi knows that Biden isn’t going to change course before the election, so he is using this month to escalate things enough to keep them going as long as possible afterwards.
In Israel, once things calm down, there will be elections, and Bibi knows he probably won’t win.
On the other hand, domestically, invading Lebanon is very popular - even most of the left wing Jewish opposition supports it.
It’s crazy making, and frustrating, believe me. But if you only read the Hebrew media and aren’t a good enough English speaker to read the international news, it’s almost like you live in a different reality where all of the awfulness of Israel goes unmentioned while the awfulness of Hamas and Hezbollah gets talked about 24/7
He knows that he’d die before anyone got around to censuring him. He doesn’t have to give a shit, because we live in a world which allows hatred to be an acceptable political position that too many will happily vote for.
Paranoid isn’t the word I was going to use, I was thinking ‘self-obsessed’.
Seriously though, I think it’s a little conceited to conceive of the escalating middle-eastern conflict as revolving around some personal vendetta against our specific domestic political party.
Netanyahu is an opportunist. A bunch of things came together to set the stage for this expansion, but he’s been a imperialist with eyes for Lebanon and “Greater Israel” since at least when he served in the IDF, and he is not alone inside Israel, either. If he were ousted tomorrow, there’s a greater than 50% chance a new zion-expansionist gets voted in after him. He’s personally unpopular domestically - not because of his activities in the West Bank, Gaza, or Lebanon, but because he’s cashing out Israel’s diplomatic capital all at once and Israel is likely to see a period of isolation and an economic collapse once the dust settles. Israel was enjoying prosperity and a lack of consequences to their expansion through occupation and settlement before they turned Gaza to rubble, and Netanyahu has put that all at risk again by going in balls-deep and daring the US to pull him out.
Democrats would prefer Israel not make a bloodbath out of their carefully curated diplomatic embargo around the middle east, but they certainly still want Israel there acting as their proxy. Democrats won’t risk being the ones to lose that foreign policy keystone by making any kind of opposition public, but if they can manage to get Netanyahu ousted their PR nightmare might finally come to an end.
Seriously though, I think it’s a little conceited to conceive of the escalating middle-eastern conflict as revolving around some personal vendetta against our specific domestic political party.
I love how you lot swap between “ISRAEL IS UTTERLY RELIANT ON THE US AND DEPENDENT ON ITS OPINION” and “The US doesn’t matter because a shitlib spoke”
Sorry for suggesting that a political leader is trying to help his political allies who are interested in assisting him in his ongoing goals, I’ll remember next time that the US has no influence on Israel.
I’ve never suggested Israel is ‘utterly reliant on the us’, only that the US is their biggest ally protecting them from international sanction.
Netanyahu almost certainly is reacting to the political environment in the US, but I think it’s more of an opportunity he seeks to exploit than a motivation for further expansion.
I also think Liberals tend to de-emphasize the importance of Israel to US foreign policy goals, which includes Democrats. I don’t think most democrats would take action against Israel because most of them know that losing them in the ME puts most of their foreign operations there at risk. It’s wishful thinking that the Democrats might be taking action if they weren’t currently in an election against a fascist.
I don’t think most democrats would take action against Israel because most of them know that losing them in the ME puts most of their foreign operations there at risk.
Yes, as we all know, Israel is our only ally in the region, and certainly a very reliable one. /s
Not many others with the same ideological alignment and geological position to exert control over access to trade routes through and around the Mediterranean, we don’t.
To say nothing of the significance of Israel as an intelligence apparatus - Israel is probably the most important ally in that region by a mile.
Not many others with the same ideological alignment and geological position to exert control over access to trade routes through and around the Mediterranean, we don’t.
Ah, yes, the important thoroughfare of Israel, the crossroads of the Middle East. Israeli shipping and port systems definitely aren’t notoriously corrupt and inefficient, and we all know the importance of Israel’s territorial waters, which don’t even extend into the Red Sea, much less the Gulf of Suez. And who doesn’t pass by Israel’s Mediterranean territorial waters when shipping to many other countries, such as [checks notes] Turkiye, Syria, or Israel? Good thing we don’t need other aligned states in the area which Israel agitates, like Egypt, or Saudi Arabia. I mean, imagine if Egypt had some sort of vital canal to world trade running through it, or if the Saudis’ coastline extended along one of the most traveled shipping lanes in the world? Ha ha, wow, we would have to be really stupid to back Israel if that was the case!
To say nothing of the significance of Israel as an intelligence apparatus - Israel is probably the most important ally in that region by a mile.
Israeli intelligence is useful, but very far from indispensable, especially considering Israel’s political objectives in presenting and sharing evidence.
And who doesn’t pass by Israel’s Mediterranean territorial waters when shipping to many other countries, such as [checks notes] Turkiye, Syria, or Israel?
Right, because countries can only really exert control and influence over their immediate surroundings. Especially when those countries have a willingness and motivation to use their significant intelligence/military funding, which is useful only to the immediate territorial boundaries of that area and not any further. I see no usefulness for, hypothetically, restricting Iranian diplomatic and militarization activities by having a nuclear superpower and counterintelligence capabilities with western ties and assets in the region.
Certainly not. Especially a nation whose aggression could be spun sympathetically as defensive against islamic/arabic [scary] antisemitism, if it were ever to occur, as opposed to a nation who may not have a compelling narrative of oppression, or isn’t ideologically set in judeo-christian providence.
Get real. If Egypt clamped down on the suez canal they’d be thrown out of the UN and sanctioned so fast their economy would collapse before the first flood gate closed.
The tail is wagging the dog. Not a good position for US to be in. Makes us look weak.
The US tries to look strong? From where I am, it looks like a nation with a surplus of terrible infrastructure, an education system which produces a surprising amount of failure, and overall waning relevance on the world stage.
This may be hard to remember, but there was a pretty long period of history where the U.S. wasn’t represented by bumbling idiots, and the U.S. definitely projected strength on the world stage. There was even a brief window of competency during the Obama era where it seemed like the U.S. could be a leader again.
Idiots or not, the US remains the only superpower in the world. This may change soon with China and India booming but for now the US runs global politics. The US spends more per year on military than the next nine countries combined.
I could go on. I’m not proud of my country’s military or the things we allow to happen like what’s going on in Gaza. But it is impressive in it’s dominance, especially now that Russia has revealed itself as a paper tiger.
The US spends more per year on military than the next nine countries combined.
“I’m important because I can beat you up,” sounds like how an abuser frames their ‘importance’. I would say that economic and cultural power are becoming more important than military power.
You would be wrong, there is a reason China is spending so much. Also China never reports accurate numbers. Given the rapid expansion and modernization their military has undergone the last 20 years, it’s likely they’re spending as much if not more than the US.
Yeah that’s a fiction we’ve always told ourselves. We’ve been represented by bumbling idiots for very very long time. The more history you study the more scattered and absurd all things seem. Basically half of foreign policy from the last 70 years was Henry Kissinger just stumbling from one thing to a next with nothing to guide him accept his own pride and greed. Competence is pretty much a fiction.
The tail is wagging the dog. Not a good position for US to be in. Makes us look weak. This is not how friends treat each other.
Call me paranoid, but I wouldn’t be surprised if Bibi’s insane escalations have two reasons. Both to keep the war tempo up (and thus the excuse to keep him in power and out of jail), and to dare the Dems to come out against him. Either they don’t, and prove they’re whipped; or they do, and open themselves up to a new line of attack. Bibi’s blatant alliance with the GOP is well-known.
I think Bibi knows that Biden isn’t going to change course before the election, so he is using this month to escalate things enough to keep them going as long as possible afterwards. In Israel, once things calm down, there will be elections, and Bibi knows he probably won’t win.
On the other hand, domestically, invading Lebanon is very popular - even most of the left wing Jewish opposition supports it. It’s crazy making, and frustrating, believe me. But if you only read the Hebrew media and aren’t a good enough English speaker to read the international news, it’s almost like you live in a different reality where all of the awfulness of Israel goes unmentioned while the awfulness of Hamas and Hezbollah gets talked about 24/7
He knows that he’d die before anyone got around to censuring him. He doesn’t have to give a shit, because we live in a world which allows hatred to be an acceptable political position that too many will happily vote for.
Paranoid isn’t the word I was going to use, I was thinking ‘self-obsessed’.
Seriously though, I think it’s a little conceited to conceive of the escalating middle-eastern conflict as revolving around some personal vendetta against our specific domestic political party.
Netanyahu is an opportunist. A bunch of things came together to set the stage for this expansion, but he’s been a imperialist with eyes for Lebanon and “Greater Israel” since at least when he served in the IDF, and he is not alone inside Israel, either. If he were ousted tomorrow, there’s a greater than 50% chance a new zion-expansionist gets voted in after him. He’s personally unpopular domestically - not because of his activities in the West Bank, Gaza, or Lebanon, but because he’s cashing out Israel’s diplomatic capital all at once and Israel is likely to see a period of isolation and an economic collapse once the dust settles. Israel was enjoying prosperity and a lack of consequences to their expansion through occupation and settlement before they turned Gaza to rubble, and Netanyahu has put that all at risk again by going in balls-deep and daring the US to pull him out.
Democrats would prefer Israel not make a bloodbath out of their carefully curated diplomatic embargo around the middle east, but they certainly still want Israel there acting as their proxy. Democrats won’t risk being the ones to lose that foreign policy keystone by making any kind of opposition public, but if they can manage to get Netanyahu ousted their PR nightmare might finally come to an end.
I love how you lot swap between “ISRAEL IS UTTERLY RELIANT ON THE US AND DEPENDENT ON ITS OPINION” and “The US doesn’t matter because a shitlib spoke”
Sorry for suggesting that a political leader is trying to help his political allies who are interested in assisting him in his ongoing goals, I’ll remember next time that the US has no influence on Israel.
I’ve never suggested Israel is ‘utterly reliant on the us’, only that the US is their biggest ally protecting them from international sanction.
Netanyahu almost certainly is reacting to the political environment in the US, but I think it’s more of an opportunity he seeks to exploit than a motivation for further expansion.
I also think Liberals tend to de-emphasize the importance of Israel to US foreign policy goals, which includes Democrats. I don’t think most democrats would take action against Israel because most of them know that losing them in the ME puts most of their foreign operations there at risk. It’s wishful thinking that the Democrats might be taking action if they weren’t currently in an election against a fascist.
Yes, as we all know, Israel is our only ally in the region, and certainly a very reliable one. /s
Not many others with the same ideological alignment and geological position to exert control over access to trade routes through and around the Mediterranean, we don’t.
To say nothing of the significance of Israel as an intelligence apparatus - Israel is probably the most important ally in that region by a mile.
Ah, yes, the important thoroughfare of Israel, the crossroads of the Middle East. Israeli shipping and port systems definitely aren’t notoriously corrupt and inefficient, and we all know the importance of Israel’s territorial waters, which don’t even extend into the Red Sea, much less the Gulf of Suez. And who doesn’t pass by Israel’s Mediterranean territorial waters when shipping to many other countries, such as [checks notes] Turkiye, Syria, or Israel? Good thing we don’t need other aligned states in the area which Israel agitates, like Egypt, or Saudi Arabia. I mean, imagine if Egypt had some sort of vital canal to world trade running through it, or if the Saudis’ coastline extended along one of the most traveled shipping lanes in the world? Ha ha, wow, we would have to be really stupid to back Israel if that was the case!
Israeli intelligence is useful, but very far from indispensable, especially considering Israel’s political objectives in presenting and sharing evidence.
Right, because countries can only really exert control and influence over their immediate surroundings. Especially when those countries have a willingness and motivation to use their significant intelligence/military funding, which is useful only to the immediate territorial boundaries of that area and not any further. I see no usefulness for, hypothetically, restricting Iranian diplomatic and militarization activities by having a nuclear superpower and counterintelligence capabilities with western ties and assets in the region.
Certainly not. Especially a nation whose aggression could be spun sympathetically as defensive against islamic/arabic [scary] antisemitism, if it were ever to occur, as opposed to a nation who may not have a compelling narrative of oppression, or isn’t ideologically set in judeo-christian providence.
Get real. If Egypt clamped down on the suez canal they’d be thrown out of the UN and sanctioned so fast their economy would collapse before the first flood gate closed.
The US tries to look strong? From where I am, it looks like a nation with a surplus of terrible infrastructure, an education system which produces a surprising amount of failure, and overall waning relevance on the world stage.
This may be hard to remember, but there was a pretty long period of history where the U.S. wasn’t represented by bumbling idiots, and the U.S. definitely projected strength on the world stage. There was even a brief window of competency during the Obama era where it seemed like the U.S. could be a leader again.
Idiots or not, the US remains the only superpower in the world. This may change soon with China and India booming but for now the US runs global politics. The US spends more per year on military than the next nine countries combined.
I could go on. I’m not proud of my country’s military or the things we allow to happen like what’s going on in Gaza. But it is impressive in it’s dominance, especially now that Russia has revealed itself as a paper tiger.
“I’m important because I can beat you up,” sounds like how an abuser frames their ‘importance’. I would say that economic and cultural power are becoming more important than military power.
You would be wrong, there is a reason China is spending so much. Also China never reports accurate numbers. Given the rapid expansion and modernization their military has undergone the last 20 years, it’s likely they’re spending as much if not more than the US.
I’m not sure that tanks can avert climate change.
Avert?
Nope, but they decide who gets the resources that are left…
I’m glad I haven’t had children, then.
Military power is still important as well. For example, the US military spending is probably the only reason Ukraine is still a country.
I’m Ukrainian. Military power is also why my family are dying.
If killing people is wrong, the only possible response is to stop killing people.
I agree but unfortunately its the reality.
Yeah that’s a fiction we’ve always told ourselves. We’ve been represented by bumbling idiots for very very long time. The more history you study the more scattered and absurd all things seem. Basically half of foreign policy from the last 70 years was Henry Kissinger just stumbling from one thing to a next with nothing to guide him accept his own pride and greed. Competence is pretty much a fiction.
US now in the byzantine period…