The US has a lot of power and sway with regards to their proxies like Israel, or should at least, but lately it feels like it’s the other way around. The US also has a lot of soft power for other countries they can use when they feel like they need/want to and a lot of countries have respected that up until recently. For example, Iran’s first attack on Israel a few months back was largely for show and they actually warned the US via back-channels before attacking. The latest one that happened last week was not the case. It was a message to the US and it’s allies that said “If you don’t do something and control this, we will.”.
Also, I’ll remind you Biden withheld arms over Rafah, stemming a large scale Israeli attack into the region.
I remember. But like the sanction Biden imposed on a few Israeli settlers these actions are more symbolic than trying to actual pivot the flow of events. It’s Biden’s way of saying “See I’m doing something” and meanwhile Israel continues doing what it does best. Also, Israel still ended up attacking Rafah, which further invalidates that point.
Perhaps it feels like that because we don’t actually have vassal-like proxies, we have allies, which allow free will and independent decisionmaking based on a simple cost/benefit calculation. Because this free-will aspect is retained, they have to be wooed, convinced, cajoled, pressured, bribed etc.
Israel dropped some bombs in Rafah but did not launch the large-scale offensive people were fearing. It was a case of US pressure actually accomplishing some harm reduction. Not harm negation, mind you, harm reduction.
Perhaps it feels like that because we don’t actually have vassal-like proxies, we have allies
I see where you’re coming from and you’re logic as well. But I would disagree. Israel get’s a huge amount of funding from the US and in turn the US is able to exert it’s influence on the region through Israel. To me, that’s a proxy.
They still attacked Rafah, just in a smaller scale. It’s not much of a comfort to the civilians killed because of it. I wouldn’t actually count that as a win in my opinion.
Not saying all of Israel’s money is coming from the US. I’m saying the main reason Israel still exists is because of the money and arms America sends to them. If it weren’t for that I would seriously question Israel’s ability to survive given how hated they are in the region. This level of support let’s the US exert it’s influence on Israel. My original point was that recent years have shifted the dynamic where the US can no longer control Israel and it feels as if is Israel is playing the US.
Having nukes goes a long way to ensuring survival. That said, we definitely have influence, no question. A lot of influence. But even a whole ton of influence is something different from complete obedience.
For instance, your boss has a lot of influence on you, because they are responsible for your paycheck. However, we would not call it complete obedience, even with your livelihood in their hands. Because of this very basic principle, I would argue the US has never had control over Israel, despite what certain propagandists would claim.
Hell, they’ve even attacked our navy ships before, decades ago.
No arguments on those points from me. What I’m just saying is that the amount of influence America was capable of exerting on Israel has diminished substantially.
Netanyahu has been in power for a long time. Every other president in the past was able to handle him even though they didn’t really like him. Biden’s lack of control of the situation to me shows his lack of leadership and ability to take charge. Not a good quality for POTUS.
The US has a lot of power and sway with regards to their proxies like Israel, or should at least, but lately it feels like it’s the other way around. The US also has a lot of soft power for other countries they can use when they feel like they need/want to and a lot of countries have respected that up until recently. For example, Iran’s first attack on Israel a few months back was largely for show and they actually warned the US via back-channels before attacking. The latest one that happened last week was not the case. It was a message to the US and it’s allies that said “If you don’t do something and control this, we will.”.
I remember. But like the sanction Biden imposed on a few Israeli settlers these actions are more symbolic than trying to actual pivot the flow of events. It’s Biden’s way of saying “See I’m doing something” and meanwhile Israel continues doing what it does best. Also, Israel still ended up attacking Rafah, which further invalidates that point.
Perhaps it feels like that because we don’t actually have vassal-like proxies, we have allies, which allow free will and independent decisionmaking based on a simple cost/benefit calculation. Because this free-will aspect is retained, they have to be wooed, convinced, cajoled, pressured, bribed etc.
Israel dropped some bombs in Rafah but did not launch the large-scale offensive people were fearing. It was a case of US pressure actually accomplishing some harm reduction. Not harm negation, mind you, harm reduction.
I see where you’re coming from and you’re logic as well. But I would disagree. Israel get’s a huge amount of funding from the US and in turn the US is able to exert it’s influence on the region through Israel. To me, that’s a proxy.
They still attacked Rafah, just in a smaller scale. It’s not much of a comfort to the civilians killed because of it. I wouldn’t actually count that as a win in my opinion.
Israel’s budget ran around 125 billion/year, pre-war. If we wanted full control, I think it would cost a little more than what we give.
No, not a win, I agree on that one.
Not saying all of Israel’s money is coming from the US. I’m saying the main reason Israel still exists is because of the money and arms America sends to them. If it weren’t for that I would seriously question Israel’s ability to survive given how hated they are in the region. This level of support let’s the US exert it’s influence on Israel. My original point was that recent years have shifted the dynamic where the US can no longer control Israel and it feels as if is Israel is playing the US.
Having nukes goes a long way to ensuring survival. That said, we definitely have influence, no question. A lot of influence. But even a whole ton of influence is something different from complete obedience.
For instance, your boss has a lot of influence on you, because they are responsible for your paycheck. However, we would not call it complete obedience, even with your livelihood in their hands. Because of this very basic principle, I would argue the US has never had control over Israel, despite what certain propagandists would claim.
Hell, they’ve even attacked our navy ships before, decades ago.
No arguments on those points from me. What I’m just saying is that the amount of influence America was capable of exerting on Israel has diminished substantially.
Yeah, I agree. Netanyahu is a very uncooperative fellow, just in general.
Netanyahu has been in power for a long time. Every other president in the past was able to handle him even though they didn’t really like him. Biden’s lack of control of the situation to me shows his lack of leadership and ability to take charge. Not a good quality for POTUS.