![[email protected] mod silently bans people from their community for disagreeing, and tries to hide the comments from being seen in the modlog.](https://lemmy.dbzer0.com/pictrs/image/9f2537e4-bfdf-43b4-b12a-0012335d0d4d.webp){kind=link}
Hello I’m not a person who is affected by this community moderator but I’m posting on behalf of people who are, since they don’t seem to know of this community yet. I attempted to reach some via DM but I’m not sure they’ll respond. So I’m making this post since I feel this needs to be addressed.
Recently I was made aware of a community that appeared randomly on Lemmy.world. It seems to be a troll community given the type of content, but the reason I’m posting about it here specifically is that this mod seems to be banning anyone who points this out or goes against his narrative. Furthermore he is only using the autoremove on ban function, not removing any content the users have posted, which I believe is deliberate in attempt to prevent the content from showing up under the modlog and revealing the hypocrisy.
Some samples of comments:
Comment from: @[email protected]
Everything else you posted has been pretty cringe but what he fuck is up with this one, dude lol
comment from: @[email protected]
comment from: @[email protected]
First off, nice new community. I look forward to days of quality posts such as this./s
Second, how many Linux distros have this level of data collection, and what is their estimated market share?
All of these were retrieved from the API, even though they aren’t included in the modlogs, I could’ve included more but it’s kind of a time consuming process to look for them and retrieve them. Viewing removed comments is easier on Lemmy than it is on Reddit but it still isn’t easy.
What do you guys think, does this seem like power-tripping? Also does this person’s content seem like blatant troll content?
CC: @[email protected] @[email protected] @[email protected]
People who’s comments I mentioned, I CCed them so they know I did this on their behalf
I unfortunately am starting to lose faith in Lemmy’s desire to reduce toxicity. They just now finally banned Linkerbaan, but it took 11 months of extreme trolling in support of Trump for it to happen. Days before the election, they finally took action. The user is probably laughing his ass off, having already reached 99.9% of the users they were hoping to.
Their cherry on top is they got away with accusing people of supporting/loving genocide hundreds of times unscathed. Most of the time where I witnessed that behavior, the person they attacked hadn’t even expressed any form of support for Israel.
If you hang out in politics communities they are gonna be toxic. I don’t think that’s a fair characterisation of lemmy in general though tbh. There are plenty of wholesome communities.
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When you’re banned like you were on Reddit, you’ll see :*
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You really enjoy that Reddit doesn’t have a public modlog lol
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Glad to hear they’re gone
Yeah, only downside is at this point we won’t know if what many had speculated would happen. After the election, a lot of us expected them to vanish.
Yeah, I’ve noticed that very often admins are very slow at dealing with these kinds of problems, also many community mods seem to protect users from receiving admin action. Which really is not good, it leads to people like Linkerbaan and CookieJarObserver being able to thrive and troll for months without issue, and only finally being banned after they’ve caused the harm months later.
What would be the alternative? As you pointed out, it’s the admins who can be slow to act
What would be the alternative?
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Unless I’m missing something this seems like a significant misrepresentation of that user’s behavior. I found them to be an annoying ideologue but having strong views and a focus on a singular topic isn’t the same as trolling.
Okay well they were banned from the instance for trolling. I think many people thought they clearly were doing so.
Certainly. But I never felt that way.
Technically, they were banned for: “constant attacks on other users, sealioning and general bad faith discussions and baseless accusations” which might be adjacent to trolling but I think is a more fair and objective description of their behavior.
The problem with trolling is that it’s usually not possible to identify with certainty because it depends on a person’s intent and state of mind. In your judgment Linkerbaan was trolling. In mine they weren’t. But who is right? There’s no way to be certain, it’s just a guess based on their behavior. That’s why I don’t think it should be used in moderation decisions. It’s just too subjective.
A user who constantly accuses anyone who disagrees with them of holding horrifying offensive views is a troll in my book. I think that’s pretty reasonable.
But that’s not what trolling means. Frankly, I’m starting to think this term is doing more harm than good in building more positive, informed, and respectful online communities. Trolling can theoretically be any type of behavior that another user doesn’t like–but it has to be intended to cause those feelings. But as I said, we can’t know each others intentions, and of course, bad actors are likely to lie about them. It’s better to describe things in terms of objective actions a user took. The description you give here is a fine basis for a ban–but it’s still not possible to say it was trolling.
The reason this bothers me is that many tightly regulated echo chambers, including some highlighted on this community, accusations of trolling are levied against anyone who doesn’t toe the party line. Presentation of inconvenient or disliked facts may cause a negative emotional reaction–but that’s not trolling unless the emotional reaction was the purpose of the interaction. I think at least some of the backlash against Linkeraan was due to their treatment of other users. But at least some was also because they were not willing to let people ignore the complicity of the US and the Democratic Party in the mass killings in Gaza. I think that’s an important truth that risks being drowned out or silenced, but obviously it should be voiced in a way that is more respectful.
You cannot force me to adopt your definition of trolling, not that it would even matter what you called it.
Do you think we have a different definition? I honestly hadn’t considered that. What is your definition then?
Great points. Many Lemmy users think I’m a troll, because I have advocated for third parties in this year’s election. And well, I get accused of being a “russian bot” a lot too. lol
They say I post in bad faith. But I actually voted third party (socialist) and sent in my ballot this past weekend, I created and mod two socialist communities, and most of my posts skew socialist topics.
So if I believe what I am saying and posting, am I really arguing in bad faith or trolling just because the majority of Lemmy doesn’t agree with me?!
Is it really “bad faith” just because Lemmy tried, yet didn’t change my mind?
So many lately are quick to shout “Troll!” or “Sealioning” when it’s really just because the comment or post is an opinion not shared by a majority here.
In my opinion, what makes Lemmy better that Reddit (so far!), is that it’s NOT an echo chamber.
For the record, I had some comments removed for “sealioning” and I legit had never heard the term before Lemmy and I had to look it up to even understand it. And I’m still not sure what it has to do with sealion or why that term was chosen.
In fact, me saying I didn’t understand it, was the very comment that got removed for sealioning. lmao
There are so much drastically dishonest and untrue things in this comment, I’m not even sure where to start. No one cares what you share, they care about your obvious dishonesty in saying why you do it.
I tried to give you the benefit of the doubt, I tried to have a real dialogue, and you just double down on the trolling.
Such as? What is the obvious dishonesty?
Let me guess; me asking that question is “sealioning,” right? Is this where you are gonna reply with the sea lion comic?
You answer that with four of your own questions.
Such as?
What is the obvious dishonesty?
Let me guess, me asking that question is “sealioning,” right?
Is this where you are gonna reply with the sea lion comic?
In the seventy days since this account was created it has made five thousand seven hundred and fifty-eight submissions to Lemmy.
That averages out to once every seventeen minutes and thirty seconds, twenty-four hours a day seven days a week.
If they spend eight hours a day on Lemmy Monday to Friday that’s a a submission every four minutes and ten seconds.
I can’t tell if this is a weird joke or if you’re seeing something I’m not. When I click their profile I see a few hundred posts.
Look at it in the Lemmy.world instance, not all submissions are federated to yours.
I assure you my numbers are accurate.
OK, I’m just wary of taking anything you say at face value due to some past posts haha.
It’s from a webcomic so yeah if you haven’t seen it then the connection seems strange. It’s just a random placeholder for a certain type of behavior, it has nothing to do with real sea lions.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sealioning
Ok, I didn’t add onto my previous reply, because wasn’t sure if you have seen it or not.
So in another thread, someone is accusing me of sealioning right now. But I don’t think this is the proper use of it. This doesn’t seem to be what it is. I’m literally asking someone for proof of an accusation. And they aren’t giving it and I get this cartoon instead.
So are people just gonna say ‘sealioning’ anytime someone asks for proof or links now?!
Seems a misuse of the term as I know it. https://lemmy.world/comment/12941934
I’m probably not the right person to answer this because I think sealioning is another nebulous term that can mean a variety of things, similar to trolling. If you want to call someone out for bad behavior, I think you need to be specific about what they did in clear terms that everyone will understand.
But, to my understanding, demanding evidence for something perceived as obvious or self evident in a seemingly polite but deliberate attempt to annoy or waste people’s time is one form of sealioning. I’m not saying that’s what you did but perhaps it’s what they believe.
But that’s kind of the issue I was discussing here. What’s obvious to me may not be to you and vice-versa. So it’s hard or impossible to know if that’s what’s happening in any specific example.
Fair points! And that’s where I’m at on it. If someone is gonna accuse me, then show me the link where I said something attacking or whatever.
After I see the link, I have a better idea of why they are thinking something and I can either explain myself or realize my mistake, or agree to disagree.
But just dropping the comic when I’m asking for proof, seems absurd to me. If they wanna drop the comic in their comment with the link, cool, but at least I need to know what specific instance they are referring to.
Thank you!
So I am reading it, and I guess I am dull, but the description sounds like just “trolling” would work. And I look at the cartoon, and I don’t see the sea lion as being ingenious. I mean, the dude brought it up, the sea lion is calling him out on it.
So the fact I don’t get it, even after the toon, explains how I got in trouble for sealioning because the comic doesn’t seem like the seal is the bad guy. But the description is just trolling. So I don’t know the reason for the new term. I think trolling suffices.
EDIT: Fuck. Now everyone is going to think I’m sealioning because of this comment, aren’t they? lol sigh…
I think the sea lion in the comic is being criticized for being overly persistent in demanding evidence and a debate with people who never wanted to discuss anything with him. But yeah it’s a bit weird because they start the interaction by publicly criticizing the sea lion, so of course he wants to defend himself. And while it’s obviously over the line to pursue people demanding they debate you about something, that’s not really a thing that happens in online discourse—it’s easy enough to just ignore someone. So I’ve never found it a concept that makes much sense to me.
Thank you! Because online we can just block someone. I was beginning to think I was crazy on thinking people were overusing it. So thanks, friend!