Not gonna happen until we have Star Trek tech like matter replicators, and have killed all the bastards who first got their hands on them and try to keep them secret to exploit them for 0 cost high profit.
We have the means to meet everyone’s needs rn. We don’t need some scifi replicator. The only things holding us back is the exploiting class, and people who think a middle man like money is needed. You are holding yourself back. Money is simply a middle-man to the distribution of goods. Through communal ownership of capital and what it produces, you do not need money as people can just take what they need. And people will work and produce because 1. What happens when people don’t do the work? It doesnt get done and you don’t get the goods, so if you want the goods you better ensure its made. If people refuse to do the work then I guess the good isn’t worth making to begin with. And 2. People desire purpose and to be a part of communities, part of that is work. It just might not be the work they are doing currently.
That is genuinely the stupidest argument I have ever seen. “Yes a society where property, money, and class is abolished will become slavery.” The reason why slavery in the US was a thing is because of money, property, and class. What you just argued is like those stupid fucking boomer facebook memes where it shows “this is what communism looks like” while showing a picture of like a tent city in the US. How would slavery happen if property is abolished, money is abolished, and class is abolish? There is no structures to force labor, that is the whole point. There would be nothing for someone to hold over anyone as everything they have, everyone else already has. You are literally just making shit up.
In English they say “ignorance is bliss” but in Finnish our idiom is from the same origin in Greek (through ages) and IIRC, we’re closer to the original translation; “tieto lisää tuskaa”, “knowledge increases agony”.
My knowledge of how naive he’s being is increasing my agony at the moment. I wish I could just live in whatever world he lives in where he can homestead some potatoes and chickens and still utilise products like smartphones and high-speed internet and “just take what he wants”.
Hes also completely willfully blind to human nature.
As if greed and a desire for power is gonna magically disappear because money disappears. You’ll just end up with people hording access to resources, and the creation of a underclass of people who will be forced to work the hoarders resources under threat of beatings, deaths, or maiming of their loved ones.
and we know this, because we have documented history of this already being done, in the past, multiple times.
but it doesnt matter, as long as they get to live their carefree hippy commune fantasy.
Increase production to meet demand. Build more infrastucture to increase capacity. If demand isn’t being met, do what you have to do to meet demand. If its something urgent, people should discuss how to temporarily ration (in the case of stuff like food) or share (in the case of something reusable like a computer) till they are able to supply enough to meet demand.
It’s so simple for you, isn’t it, not having to consider reality?
“Just increase production until you make enough, lol what’s the issue???”
Let’s say there’s a natural disaster, or a disease wipes out a crop. Not enough to go around for your avocado salad. “Just increase production.”
Honestly this is exactly why I didn’t reply in the first place. There’s no point in this, you have zero understanding of logistics or basic economy. All you have is a very naive hippie dream.
If a natural disaster hits other communities can aid. We already have that, look at when Haiti was devastated by hurricanes and earth quakes, look at Florida. People send aid to help till they can help themselves. And in the cases where things aren’t able to be produced enough for everyone like say cars. There are more economical solutions like the various means of public transportation. I am not suggesting everyone gets the finest things, but that their needs are met one way or another. Let the producers and consumers work together to solve problems, not letting an arbitrary market or corporate stouges decide what peoples needs are and how to meet them
Not gonna happen until we have Star Trek tech like matter replicators, and have killed all the bastards who first got their hands on them and try to keep them secret to exploit them for 0 cost high profit.
This would happen very quickly as soon as someone figures out how to bypass security on them (you just know they’ll require some sort of janky app) and remotely orders a cocktail of bleach and ammonia.
Not gonna happen until we have Star Trek tech like matter replicators, and have killed all the bastards who first got their hands on them and try to keep them secret to exploit them for 0 cost high profit.
We have the means to meet everyone’s needs rn. We don’t need some scifi replicator. The only things holding us back is the exploiting class, and people who think a middle man like money is needed. You are holding yourself back. Money is simply a middle-man to the distribution of goods. Through communal ownership of capital and what it produces, you do not need money as people can just take what they need. And people will work and produce because 1. What happens when people don’t do the work? It doesnt get done and you don’t get the goods, so if you want the goods you better ensure its made. If people refuse to do the work then I guess the good isn’t worth making to begin with. And 2. People desire purpose and to be a part of communities, part of that is work. It just might not be the work they are doing currently.
And that is totally going to end up with how it is now.
A subclass of unwanted, uncared about workers that no one gives a single shit about until the tomato is unavilable/too expensive/etc.
Which is not meeting everyones needs.
Its meeting you and yours needs.
Genuinely how? If everyone owns things communally without the use of money as a middleman, how does that result in what we have now?
because labor becomes currency, and currency will always be horded
That is genuinely the stupidest argument I have ever seen. “Yes a society where property, money, and class is abolished will become slavery.” The reason why slavery in the US was a thing is because of money, property, and class. What you just argued is like those stupid fucking boomer facebook memes where it shows “this is what communism looks like” while showing a picture of like a tent city in the US. How would slavery happen if property is abolished, money is abolished, and class is abolish? There is no structures to force labor, that is the whole point. There would be nothing for someone to hold over anyone as everything they have, everyone else already has. You are literally just making shit up.
God I wish I was this ignorant. Probably be a lot happier.
Can’t help but agree with you.
In English they say “ignorance is bliss” but in Finnish our idiom is from the same origin in Greek (through ages) and IIRC, we’re closer to the original translation; “tieto lisää tuskaa”, “knowledge increases agony”.
My knowledge of how naive he’s being is increasing my agony at the moment. I wish I could just live in whatever world he lives in where he can homestead some potatoes and chickens and still utilise products like smartphones and high-speed internet and “just take what he wants”.
Hes also completely willfully blind to human nature.
As if greed and a desire for power is gonna magically disappear because money disappears. You’ll just end up with people hording access to resources, and the creation of a underclass of people who will be forced to work the hoarders resources under threat of beatings, deaths, or maiming of their loved ones.
and we know this, because we have documented history of this already being done, in the past, multiple times.
but it doesnt matter, as long as they get to live their carefree hippy commune fantasy.
Okay. I need a thing that’s only available in limited amounts and other people are of the mind they need it too.
What now?
Increase production to meet demand. Build more infrastucture to increase capacity. If demand isn’t being met, do what you have to do to meet demand. If its something urgent, people should discuss how to temporarily ration (in the case of stuff like food) or share (in the case of something reusable like a computer) till they are able to supply enough to meet demand.
It’s so simple for you, isn’t it, not having to consider reality?
“Just increase production until you make enough, lol what’s the issue???”
Let’s say there’s a natural disaster, or a disease wipes out a crop. Not enough to go around for your avocado salad. “Just increase production.”
Honestly this is exactly why I didn’t reply in the first place. There’s no point in this, you have zero understanding of logistics or basic economy. All you have is a very naive hippie dream.
If a natural disaster hits other communities can aid. We already have that, look at when Haiti was devastated by hurricanes and earth quakes, look at Florida. People send aid to help till they can help themselves. And in the cases where things aren’t able to be produced enough for everyone like say cars. There are more economical solutions like the various means of public transportation. I am not suggesting everyone gets the finest things, but that their needs are met one way or another. Let the producers and consumers work together to solve problems, not letting an arbitrary market or corporate stouges decide what peoples needs are and how to meet them
This would happen very quickly as soon as someone figures out how to bypass security on them (you just know they’ll require some sort of janky app) and remotely orders a cocktail of bleach and ammonia.