I’m glad there is enough critical mass to move past those fucking hatemongers. “Pure free speech and anarchy!” If you say exactly what we want you to, also don’t accidentally offend us with normal fucking words
Did you know that Norway, Sweden, and Denmark all have laws against hate speech, harassment, and discriminatory expressions targeting protected groups. For instance, Norwegian law prohibits public statements that threaten or insult someone, or promote hatred based on factors like ethnicity, religion, or sexual orientation. At the same time they consistently top indices like the Reporters Without Borders’ World Press Freedom index. I’m not saying that your comment is threatening or anything, but it doesn’t seem very important to me to protect the right of someone to use a crude derogatory like “tankie” (a word with parallels to terms like “pinko” and “judeo Bolshevik”).
Even the US has protected classes even if the list is woefully short.
I doubt tankies are a protected class in nordic states since they are like nazis and other groups that fetishize violent oppression. Tankie doesn’t parallel with pinko becsuse one is about violent oppression and the other is about the left side of the political spectrum.
In reality, the pervasiveness of derogatories like that limit free speech. Of course, this goes the same for calling everyone one disagrees with a lib or fascist as well.
Thank you, that’s true but doesn’t catch the nuance of my argument. It doesn’t need to be hate speech to have a chilling effect on public debate. Name-calling instead of actual political discourse, for instance.
I’ve been called many things but liberal or fascist are seldom among them. I do observe comrades who use those terms very lightly and in uncomeradely fashion though.
I can’t even say life’s a bitch over there without being filtered because of misogyny which I guess? But that’s not my intent and I don’t think the majority read it with that connotation. What if I just want to quote a Nas classic?
It gets dumber: last I checked their word filter doesn’t pay any regard to a comment’s set language so even If I set my comment to French “retard” will be filtered on ml communities and to their users regardless of where I comment.
Je suis en retard
Becomes
Je suis en removed
Edit: actually, let’s see if this has been fixed, test French comment in reply to this:
You said two stupid things but only one of them was fun to make a joke out of.
Your french shit is equally stupid. “But it’s not a slur in a language we aren’t speaking right now so I should get to say it!!!”
How about you just stop having a piss fit you spoiled little fuck? Not once in your ‘analysis’ are you bothering to do the literally only valuable piece of thought work: actually measuring the cost/benefit of having a strong deterrence to bigotry vs “I can think of a word that has a slur as part of it but can still be easily understood by people reading it through context clues”
When a piece of shit only weighs the cost of doing things to protect vulnerable minorities and not the benefit to those people, it’s pretty fucking easy to suss out their beliefs on the issue in general.
The comment above demonstrates that non-ml members perceive ml members as claiming anarchy among their values. If that impression exists, there must be a reason for it - which is that ml members do in fact claim to be anarchists.
Therefore, in the context of this thread, it is valid to point out the existence of self-styled anarchists claiming that other self-styled anarchists are “not real anarchists”. The existence of this thread demonstrates the truth of the statement, regardless of whether you personally like the conclusion or not.
I was in an argument with some .ml tankie yesterday, and they had the gall to say that “free speech that doesn’t threaten the government is tolerated everywhere,” in response to a comment saying that the CCP censors speech. They didn’t like my assertion that that statement also applies to Nineteen Eighty-Four’s Ingsoc party. It’s technically true, that free speech that doesn’t threaten the government is tolerated in Oceania. It’s just that the government considers any dissent threatening.
My last straw was when I made a meme on their meme instance that had no Asians, anyone related to Asia, or racism in it. And they removed the post with 500+ up votes and a healthy discussion, because my title was “Rice.”
They literally told me rice, the word by itself, is racist. I just chose a random word for the title to fill the blank.
You didn’t choose a random word. It’s obvious why you chose that specific word in reference to gaming hardware. And we know the racist roots of the term.
Yeah, we’d hate to make a good alternative when everyone can just use Bluesky and Meta.
The hate for .world simply because of size doesn’t make sense to me. It’s fine to make new (unique) communities elsewhere, but shunning the biggest successful communities on .world to try to grow empty communities on other instances is cutting off your nose to spite your face.
If you’re constantly shunning the biggest instance simply for being big, you’ll end up killing Lemmy.
There’s more than just being big, those things may not matter to you, or even the majority, but I’ve heard enough gripes repeated to know some people are bothered.
The flip flopping on policies without clear transparency bothered some people but tbh I forgave that as growing pains of being in charge of a new popular platform.
The one mentioned more often is how they’re one of the main ones to federate with Meta’s Threads. Integration isn’t really there right now anyway but every other major Lemmy instance has preemptively blocked them already: source
That’s not the argument, please don’t trust it needlessly like that
The point is that having everything be on one instance results in the centralized abuse of power we saw with reddit
Per example: .world has some famously bad power mods (a certain soaring mollusk comes to mind) same as reddit, growing communities outside of that centralized area gives us a place to run when they finally snap completely, as is inevitable with power mods
I don’t think most of the data in the network should be hosted by a single legal entity, that’s just unhealthy even if the protocol is open. It’s also my main complaint about bluesky- technically open protocol, de facto centralization.
You can see instances that haven’t been defederated. Why is it important for everyone to be on the same one? Everyone has the ability to get the same feed on All.
As long as it’s not only lemmy.world communities you start growing. Centralization won’t lead to good outcomes anywhere.
Absolutely! Grow a community on any instance that doesn’t allow the kind of users that lemmy.ml does I say.
I think we gave them too much power by making their communities as big as we did
I’m glad there is enough critical mass to move past those fucking hatemongers. “Pure free speech and anarchy!” If you say exactly what we want you to, also don’t accidentally offend us with normal fucking words
“Free speech!”
Ok tankie.
“Not like that!”
Did you know that Norway, Sweden, and Denmark all have laws against hate speech, harassment, and discriminatory expressions targeting protected groups. For instance, Norwegian law prohibits public statements that threaten or insult someone, or promote hatred based on factors like ethnicity, religion, or sexual orientation. At the same time they consistently top indices like the Reporters Without Borders’ World Press Freedom index. I’m not saying that your comment is threatening or anything, but it doesn’t seem very important to me to protect the right of someone to use a crude derogatory like “tankie” (a word with parallels to terms like “pinko” and “judeo Bolshevik”).
Even the US has protected classes even if the list is woefully short.
I doubt tankies are a protected class in nordic states since they are like nazis and other groups that fetishize violent oppression. Tankie doesn’t parallel with pinko becsuse one is about violent oppression and the other is about the left side of the political spectrum.
In reality, the pervasiveness of derogatories like that limit free speech. Of course, this goes the same for calling everyone one disagrees with a lib or fascist as well.
Permitting hate speech limits free speech by making the space unsafe for marginalized voices.
What are you saying that causes people to call you a liberal or a fascist?
Thank you, that’s true but doesn’t catch the nuance of my argument. It doesn’t need to be hate speech to have a chilling effect on public debate. Name-calling instead of actual political discourse, for instance.
I’ve been called many things but liberal or fascist are seldom among them. I do observe comrades who use those terms very lightly and in uncomeradely fashion though.
Or more subtly:
I can’t even say life’s a bitch over there without being filtered because of misogyny which I guess? But that’s not my intent and I don’t think the majority read it with that connotation. What if I just want to quote a Nas classic?
It gets dumber: last I checked their word filter doesn’t pay any regard to a comment’s set language so even If I set my comment to French “retard” will be filtered on ml communities and to their users regardless of where I comment.
Edit: actually, let’s see if this has been fixed, test French comment in reply to this:
Edit2: lmao
I’ve tried to talk about fire retardants there once… It gets cut too.
Je suis en retard
oh no I’m not allowed to use a slur even though I’m using it in a common phrase that originates as the slur being used as a slur
I’m supposed to get away with doing things
Did you only read half of my comment?
What about the French example?
You said two stupid things but only one of them was fun to make a joke out of.
Your french shit is equally stupid. “But it’s not a slur in a language we aren’t speaking right now so I should get to say it!!!”
How about you just stop having a piss fit you spoiled little fuck? Not once in your ‘analysis’ are you bothering to do the literally only valuable piece of thought work: actually measuring the cost/benefit of having a strong deterrence to bigotry vs “I can think of a word that has a slur as part of it but can still be easily understood by people reading it through context clues”
When a piece of shit only weighs the cost of doing things to protect vulnerable minorities and not the benefit to those people, it’s pretty fucking easy to suss out their beliefs on the issue in general.
I think maybe you need to take some deep breaths.
Removed by mod
Dudes takes are so bad even he doesn’t want to upvote them lol:
You realize my point was when speaking French I should be able to use it as it’s a different word that’s just spelled the same as the English slur.
That was the whole point in making my test comment it’s own reply.
Imagine being such a piece of shit “not saying slurs” triggers you to the point of taking screenshots to argue it’s a bad take
truly living up to the ‘gamer man’ username.
The only people who have a problem with .ml are objectively garbage people. What a thread.
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Removed by mod
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You’re acting rude.
They’re not anarchists tho. Don’t associate anarchism with .ml bullshit
Of course, because there is no true anarchist.
What do the call a fallacy where you find an imaginary fallacy in someone else’s argument to sound smarter?
A (false) fallacy fallacy? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Argument_from_fallacy
Is it a fallacy? I frequently run into self-styled anarchists who describe other self-styled anarchists as “not real anarchists”.
.ml people don’t even describe themselves as anarchists, from what I’ve seen. And those that do, often hide behind that label in bad faith
not like someone describing themselves as an anarchist while flying a ukraine flag lol
But they don’t even pretend to be anarchists, they’re Marxist-Leninists, hence the ml
If “they dont even pretend to be anarchists”, then why would the comment
be necessary in the first place?
If you look at the comment above that one, you might be able to figure it out
The comment above demonstrates that non-ml members perceive ml members as claiming anarchy among their values. If that impression exists, there must be a reason for it - which is that ml members do in fact claim to be anarchists.
Therefore, in the context of this thread, it is valid to point out the existence of self-styled anarchists claiming that other self-styled anarchists are “not real anarchists”. The existence of this thread demonstrates the truth of the statement, regardless of whether you personally like the conclusion or not.
I was in an argument with some .ml tankie yesterday, and they had the gall to say that “free speech that doesn’t threaten the government is tolerated everywhere,” in response to a comment saying that the CCP censors speech. They didn’t like my assertion that that statement also applies to Nineteen Eighty-Four’s Ingsoc party. It’s technically true, that free speech that doesn’t threaten the government is tolerated in Oceania. It’s just that the government considers any dissent threatening.
My last straw was when I made a meme on their meme instance that had no Asians, anyone related to Asia, or racism in it. And they removed the post with 500+ up votes and a healthy discussion, because my title was “Rice.”
They literally told me rice, the word by itself, is racist. I just chose a random word for the title to fill the blank.
You didn’t choose a random word. It’s obvious why you chose that specific word in reference to gaming hardware. And we know the racist roots of the term.
What were the normal words that people found so offensive?
Yeah, we’d hate to make a good alternative when everyone can just use Bluesky and Meta.
The hate for .world simply because of size doesn’t make sense to me. It’s fine to make new (unique) communities elsewhere, but shunning the biggest successful communities on .world to try to grow empty communities on other instances is cutting off your nose to spite your face.
If you’re constantly shunning the biggest instance simply for being big, you’ll end up killing Lemmy.
There’s more than just being big, those things may not matter to you, or even the majority, but I’ve heard enough gripes repeated to know some people are bothered.
The flip flopping on policies without clear transparency bothered some people but tbh I forgave that as growing pains of being in charge of a new popular platform.
The one mentioned more often is how they’re one of the main ones to federate with Meta’s Threads. Integration isn’t really there right now anyway but every other major Lemmy instance has preemptively blocked them already:
source
I can respect the Threads thing. That’s a valid reason other than “we need to be even smaller”.
It’s not that we need to be smaller, but we benefit if we all grow similarly, or at least the community distribution does.
That’s not the argument, please don’t trust it needlessly like that
The point is that having everything be on one instance results in the centralized abuse of power we saw with reddit
Per example: .world has some famously bad power mods (a certain soaring mollusk comes to mind) same as reddit, growing communities outside of that centralized area gives us a place to run when they finally snap completely, as is inevitable with power mods
This is very easy to do thanks to how Lemmy works
That mod has one political community. That’s it. “They” appears to be one mod of one community that you have an issue with.
I don’t think most of the data in the network should be hosted by a single legal entity, that’s just unhealthy even if the protocol is open. It’s also my main complaint about bluesky- technically open protocol, de facto centralization.
You can see instances that haven’t been defederated. Why is it important for everyone to be on the same one? Everyone has the ability to get the same feed on All.