After 2040, the goals are even more ambitious. That range figure will be pushed even further to 776 miles, while the size, weight and cost will be even smaller.
If they are able to produce cars with 1248 km / 776 miles of range at a similar cost, I would strongly suggest to rather build cars with a smaller battery at a lower cost, lower weight and a better usable room per size ratio.
I would say that range is already now no longer an issue of modern EVs. I drive a Hyundai Ioniq 6 which is pretty efficient. I have a range of 550 km / 341 miles at 100% and it charges in less than 20 minutes to 80%. Compared to combustion engine vehicles there is no additional waiting time on long distance journeys. If I go to the toilet, grab a snack or walk a few steps to move my muscles, I already have to hurry to be back in time and not to block a charger unnecessarily.
Who the heck needs 776 miles of range? If that would be a common use case, why are there (almost) no combustion engine cars with such a range? You could also easily double the tank size of a petrol car. Yet, no one asked for that.
Range is no longer an issue IMO. Fast charging is fast enough. Now, we have to make EVs more affordable, lighter and smaller and improve the footprint of battery production in terms of rare materials, recycability, pollution etc.
Range may not be an issue for your use case, but it absolutely is still an issue for many. Range is certainly an issue for anyone who tows any kind of trailer. Anyone who lives in cold climates and wants heat in their car while traveling. Etc.
I’ll absolutely jump in on EVs when those things are no longer an issue, but I absolutely do not want a vehicle that forces me to stop for 20 min every 120 miles when I’m towing my camper somewhere.
I agree on towing, that’s a big deal for sure. Heating the car is not a big deal though. Even if you lose like 20% your range, for most people that just means plugging it in a day sooner in the winter, every 3 days instead of 4 etc.
Towing a camper is a reasonable argument that I can get behind. Thanks for bringing that up.
There are vehicles with a realistic (not the manufacturer’s claim) combined range of 660 km / 410 miles (without the trailer) and which can tow 1700 kg (~3700 lbs). Based on what I found online, the consumption is increased by 80% if you tow a camping trailer. That leaves you at 230 miles of range with the camping trailer. If you travel at 55 mph that gives you 3.5 to 4.5 hours of driving between charging stops. So I guess that’s not too bad.
IMHO bigger concern would be that chargers will be very hard to reach with a camper van attached. At least in Europe, chargers near the highway are mostly arranged like a parking lot. There’s no room for a trailer. So either you have to de- and reattach it all the time or you’ll need one that’s meant for big, commercial trucks. No clue if these are accessible to the general public though. (Re-)attaching the trailer every couple of hours indeed sucks if you do such long-haul trips a lot.
I do not own an EV, but just thinking about larger capacity batteries, it seems like they would have these benefits:
worry less about when to recharge. For instance you could wait until a sunny day where solar would provide the electricity
allow longer road trips with fewer charge stops. For instance you could drive from SF to San Diego without worry.
function as a larger cheap source of energy for your home by sending electricity back during peak grid hours.
work better in cold climates where some of that energy goes to the heater.
That being said, I do agree that having smaller batteries would be great for price and car weight. Hopefully there will be options and we won’t all be forced to buy heavier more expensive EV’s when a cheaper lighter one would suit our needs.
why are there (almost) no combustion engine cars with such a range?
Because it takes 3 minutes to fill a car back up, so long range isn’t needed. With a battery, it would be a much better experience to recharge at your destination rather than being forced to take a break halfway.
allow longer road trips with fewer charge stops. For instance you could drive from SF to San Diego without worry.
Why worry if there are chargers every couple of miles? Of course it can be a small inconvenience to do a break if you don’t need one at all, but it’s not like you have to stop every hour.
Because it takes 3 minutes to fill a car back up, so long range isn’t needed.
There are numerous EVs already that can recharge more than 600 miles of range per hour of charging. Thus, having a 20 minute break every 3-4 hours of driving is sufficient. And from my perspective filling a car with fuel also takes more than 3 minutes if you count in the payment etc. If you anyhow need to visit the toilet, you’re car is ready to go again.
You also have to remember that it’s just pushing the limits on the tech. These more advanced batteries can be put into larger vehicles that would have a lower MPG equivalent than a sedan, especially something like a bus or RV. One of my wishes is to sell everything and renovate an electric blue bird and go touring in my retirement. Sure, they can scale down for most use cases, since the tech is getting denser and smaller, but scaling up can help out vehicles that are less efficient.
Unfortunately no one wants to sell things for less money than before so they will keep adding unnecessary things to claim it’s better rather than making it more usable and affordable.
As a lowly apartment dweller, range matters to me. I had a Volt from 2017 to 2020. The only chargers I was aware of in my area was one at the local best buy that was frequently broken, and another at the BMW dealership that was 10 blocks away and which I only felt comfortable going to after hours so I wouldn’t block their customers. I love the electric driving experience but I’m waiting for a 1,000 mile range to be available so I only have to worry about the where-do-i-charge-this-thing question once a month or so.
Here I would rather see the issue that there are so few chargers in your area. If you had a bunch of chargers available near your appartment, local supermarkets, gym, public swimming pool, library, work etc. there wouldn’t be a need for such a huge range.
In your block there are probably hundreds if not thousands of people with cars. If all of these people go for a super large battery just because the infrastructure sucks, that’s a huge waste of ressources in comparison to adding chargers where needed.
If they are able to produce cars with 1248 km / 776 miles of range at a similar cost, I would strongly suggest to rather build cars with a smaller battery at a lower cost, lower weight and a better usable room per size ratio.
I would say that range is already now no longer an issue of modern EVs. I drive a Hyundai Ioniq 6 which is pretty efficient. I have a range of 550 km / 341 miles at 100% and it charges in less than 20 minutes to 80%. Compared to combustion engine vehicles there is no additional waiting time on long distance journeys. If I go to the toilet, grab a snack or walk a few steps to move my muscles, I already have to hurry to be back in time and not to block a charger unnecessarily.
Who the heck needs 776 miles of range? If that would be a common use case, why are there (almost) no combustion engine cars with such a range? You could also easily double the tank size of a petrol car. Yet, no one asked for that.
Range is no longer an issue IMO. Fast charging is fast enough. Now, we have to make EVs more affordable, lighter and smaller and improve the footprint of battery production in terms of rare materials, recycability, pollution etc.
Range may not be an issue for your use case, but it absolutely is still an issue for many. Range is certainly an issue for anyone who tows any kind of trailer. Anyone who lives in cold climates and wants heat in their car while traveling. Etc. I’ll absolutely jump in on EVs when those things are no longer an issue, but I absolutely do not want a vehicle that forces me to stop for 20 min every 120 miles when I’m towing my camper somewhere.
I agree on towing, that’s a big deal for sure. Heating the car is not a big deal though. Even if you lose like 20% your range, for most people that just means plugging it in a day sooner in the winter, every 3 days instead of 4 etc.
Towing a camper is a reasonable argument that I can get behind. Thanks for bringing that up.
There are vehicles with a realistic (not the manufacturer’s claim) combined range of 660 km / 410 miles (without the trailer) and which can tow 1700 kg (~3700 lbs). Based on what I found online, the consumption is increased by 80% if you tow a camping trailer. That leaves you at 230 miles of range with the camping trailer. If you travel at 55 mph that gives you 3.5 to 4.5 hours of driving between charging stops. So I guess that’s not too bad.
IMHO bigger concern would be that chargers will be very hard to reach with a camper van attached. At least in Europe, chargers near the highway are mostly arranged like a parking lot. There’s no room for a trailer. So either you have to de- and reattach it all the time or you’ll need one that’s meant for big, commercial trucks. No clue if these are accessible to the general public though. (Re-)attaching the trailer every couple of hours indeed sucks if you do such long-haul trips a lot.
https://ev-database.org/car/2194/Mercedes-Benz-EQS-450-4MATIC
I do not own an EV, but just thinking about larger capacity batteries, it seems like they would have these benefits:
That being said, I do agree that having smaller batteries would be great for price and car weight. Hopefully there will be options and we won’t all be forced to buy heavier more expensive EV’s when a cheaper lighter one would suit our needs.
Because it takes 3 minutes to fill a car back up, so long range isn’t needed. With a battery, it would be a much better experience to recharge at your destination rather than being forced to take a break halfway.
Why worry if there are chargers every couple of miles? Of course it can be a small inconvenience to do a break if you don’t need one at all, but it’s not like you have to stop every hour.
There are numerous EVs already that can recharge more than 600 miles of range per hour of charging. Thus, having a 20 minute break every 3-4 hours of driving is sufficient. And from my perspective filling a car with fuel also takes more than 3 minutes if you count in the payment etc. If you anyhow need to visit the toilet, you’re car is ready to go again.
https://ev-database.org/compare/fast-charging-electric-vehicle-quickest#sort%3Apath~type~order=.fastcharge_speed~number~desc|rs-price:prev~next=10000~100000|rs-range:prev~next=0~1000|rs-fastcharge:prev~next=0~1500|rs-acceleration:prev~next=2~23|rs-topspeed:prev~next=110~350|rs-battery:prev~next=10~200|rs-towweight:prev~next=0~2500|rs-eff:prev~next=100~350|rs-safety:prev~next=-1~5|paging:currentPage=0|paging:number=10
That range gets seriously impacted in colder climates. Maximizing range would be good for people who live in colder areas and who need it.
You also have to remember that it’s just pushing the limits on the tech. These more advanced batteries can be put into larger vehicles that would have a lower MPG equivalent than a sedan, especially something like a bus or RV. One of my wishes is to sell everything and renovate an electric blue bird and go touring in my retirement. Sure, they can scale down for most use cases, since the tech is getting denser and smaller, but scaling up can help out vehicles that are less efficient.
Unfortunately no one wants to sell things for less money than before so they will keep adding unnecessary things to claim it’s better rather than making it more usable and affordable.
As a lowly apartment dweller, range matters to me. I had a Volt from 2017 to 2020. The only chargers I was aware of in my area was one at the local best buy that was frequently broken, and another at the BMW dealership that was 10 blocks away and which I only felt comfortable going to after hours so I wouldn’t block their customers. I love the electric driving experience but I’m waiting for a 1,000 mile range to be available so I only have to worry about the where-do-i-charge-this-thing question once a month or so.
Here I would rather see the issue that there are so few chargers in your area. If you had a bunch of chargers available near your appartment, local supermarkets, gym, public swimming pool, library, work etc. there wouldn’t be a need for such a huge range.
In your block there are probably hundreds if not thousands of people with cars. If all of these people go for a super large battery just because the infrastructure sucks, that’s a huge waste of ressources in comparison to adding chargers where needed.