And I personally think it’s astroturfing. The political parties spend tons of $ to influence opinion. Why wouldn’t they hire a bunch of bots to push their message in this space?
How can you lose an election so bad and think that it’s the voters who need to change? The tail does not wag the dog, democrats! I refuse to believe this is genuine sentiment. I live in a very liberal state and IRL conversation it’s fuck the democrats, a whole lot of people I work with were first time trump voters. BLUE STATE. One of the most liberal. Home to Bernie sanders!
It’s always the same accounts and there seems to be immediate group voting as you will see an almost immediate and usually similar number in these kinds of posts as if they are waiting and refreshing comments to make sure there is their brand of discontent.
Honestly it’s a shame that the mods keep allowing this instead of telling them to shut up and take a breather instead of trying to start fights and make shit up that makes this social site worse on a weekly basis.
I mean, yeah, sure. There’s a lot of fucking scumbag MAGA people. There’s also a lot of people who pay almost no attention to politics at all and have a lot of problems.
Quick! In one sentence, summarize Kamala’s campaign pitch. If you did it without mentioning Trump or Biden, I’m impressed, good job, I’m pretty interested in what you came up with. Now, do Trump. Probably something stupid like “you’ll be winning so much” or whatever, right? If you knew nothing at all about politics, which one sounds better? For someone who isn’t paying attention, maybe distrusts all politicians equally (for better or worse), probably Trump’s. Of course, he’s going to be fucking catastrophic for anyone who isn’t a billionaire, but I’m just talking campaign pitches. The point is that the democrats need to take this opportunity to get their shit together and start working on a better pitch than “not Trump”.
Continuing the good things Biden had done (chips act, student debt cancellation, etc), while protecting reproductive rights, at least pretending to treat minorities like humans, while being the only rational option that had a chance.
My life has gotten markedly worse since biden and so has that of all my coworkers. More of the same “nothing will fundamentally change” Biden except as a first black Indian woman president!!! is simply not appealing and it has nothing to do with identity politics. This economy is destroying the working class. My entire department coworkers voted for trump, almost all of them for the first time. It’s vermont. They’re pro women, pro lgbtq, don’t care about race. But Biden’s economic policies did not help them at all. All of the twice obama thrice trump voters? Same fucking thing. But that doesn’t fit the neat little identity politics narrative conveniently invented to keep people from talking about class issues and gaining class consciousness. You see, the working class greatly surpasses the ruling class in size and we’re heavily armed. Don’t want the working class getting any ideas so best to invent or manipulate identity issues to keep it divided.
If only you’d talk to people instead of parroting liberal MSM talking points that remind me of bush claiming Islamic terrorism was because they hate us! And not you know, the product of decades of US intervention in the Middle East especially the support of Israel’s bullshit.
But objectively Bidens policies were better for them. This is the problem with voting on feels and not data. Unless they voted for Trump to burn the system down in hopes that’d improve things, they voted for their situations to worsen. As well as the situation of those vulnerable groups they ‘care’ about.
Okay, great! Now, here’s where I point out the problems. Keep in mind that I am not happy that Trump won, what I want is for the democrats to take their well-earned lessons from their fuck up and not fuck up again, instead of staying in denial of any responsibility and trundling into the midterms convinced that they did everything perfect in '24.
A lot of voters fundamentally didn’t feel the good things Biden did. We have a lot of student loans debt, and I can live with the fact that our debt didn’t get cancelled, but it’s really frustrating that they touted the payment plans for those whose debt remained as some kind of win. Those cool payment plans they were making a fuss about actually would have increased our payments. More on that below, but that’s kind of the general vibe of Biden’s accomplishments and how they were oversold in '24. Yeah, he did undeniably do some good things, but those good things were ultimately just kind of okay for the average person, and got sold as if he was the ghost of FDR. A lot of folks are out there drowning, and the campaign’s messaging vibe around it was “congratulations on having been rescued by Joe Biden!” It’s a little like when you’re on hold with a cable company for four hours because they’re the only Internet provider, or you’re playing phone tag with the health insurance company because they’re the only option provided by your employer, and they start bragging about how cool they are on the hold message. It does not spark joy. If you pointed out that the economy wasn’t better for the average person, or that the messaging was tone-deaf, you got accused of being MAGA and told to shut up. So, the message of “continuing Biden” in a time where incumbents around the world were getting their asses beaten, and Biden was at his lowest popularity yet, was a huge fucking mistake imo.
I still don’t get why they had to die on the hill of defending a guy who was no longer seeking re-election when they had a perfect opportunity to put distance between them. It should have been the obvious thing to do when the Trump campaign was also trying to make sure that voters associated Kamala with Biden.
I don’t think that fear is effective messaging anymore, and I’m not sure it ever was. Running on “Trump’s going to get you”, even if it is true, has a 50% track record (at the time, now 33%) at the best interpretation, 0% at worst (being that Biden didn’t run on “Trump’s going to get you”). There’s too many people who don’t follow politics closely. As someone who likes arguing with strangers online, this confounds me, but it’s true. I don’t think fear-based messaging is meaningful for those folks, even if true.
I mean, pretend you didn’t pay attention to politics. What’s a better one sentence pitch? What you said, or “you’re going to win a lot, you’ll be tired of winning”?
P.S.
Following up on student loans:
It’s also frustrating that instead of trying to make a meaningful change to at least start addressing the system that creates the student debt problem, the big fix they offered was a band-aid of debt forgiveness (for some people). That’s not meaningful change, it’s a band-aid.
It seems whenever someone pointed out that the the economy wasn’t better for the average person, people weren’t told to shut up or accused of being MAGA. But told that ‘the economy’ doesn’t measure cost of living for normal people. It’s the stock market. Regardless of that it was better by most measures comparing the rebound against other countries. Disinformation was just more effective and reality did not matter.
If one can side just fabricate a southern invasion, or convince people inflation is high when it isn’t. It doesnt really matter what the other side does.
If you didn’t pay attention to politics you should’ve been able to take one look at Trumps actions around Jan6 and vote against it, no listing to the media required. It was transparent AF. Recordings of him trying to coerce more votes out of states, and all the nonsense that came afterwards, etc. But unfortunately fear is too effective, and the Dems are much worse at it. Too busy nitpicking a lame campaign and sowing doubt rather than the pure denial and unity the people want.
Disinformation was just more effective and reality did not matter. If one can side just fabricate a southern invasion, or convince people inflation is high when it isn’t. It doesnt really matter what the other side does.
Bingo.
The last few elections have really highlighted how uneducated and easily manipulated the American public is. And as far as I can tell, disinformation is going to be our future. The average American just isn’t interested in responsibly informing themselves. And because of that we’ll never have the Congress we need to reign in the forces pushing that disinformation (not that you can ever really stop it now that Pandora’s Box is open). So the future goes to whatever party can fabricate the most extreme blatant lies to scare people into voting for them.
what I want is for the democrats to take their well-earned lessons from their fuck up and not fuck up again
Wonder how many rights we’ll lose and how fucked up our economy will be by the time we get the felon rapist out of office, assuming we can get him and his party out of office after they attempt to make good on their promise to “reorganize” our government after inciting an insurrection to topple it. But at least maybe Democrats will “learn their lesson” by then.
I don’t think that fear is effective messaging anymore
Lol. That’s literally how Republicans win. They cornered the market on it. They developed fear-based politics into an art form. THEY’RE EATING OUR PETS. INVADING IMMIGRANT CARAVANS. THEY’RE STEALING YOUR JOBS AND RAPING YOUR CHILDREN. BIDEN IS TOO OLD (totally ignore that our guy is equally old).
If anything, Democrats need to learn how to lie and scare people into voting for them more effectively, because clearly that’s what nets American votes.
What’s a better one sentence pitch? What you said, or “you’re going to win a lot, you’ll be tired of winning”?
I mean I guess if I cosplayed a moron I’d go with the winning comment. If I remain in the shoes of someone with a normal number of brain cells, then I’d rather hear about accomplishments and policy.
Okay, so if the lesson is blame the voters, then what’s the plan? Scoff in disbelief and say “God, I can’t believe you guys are still this stupid” when the Democrats lose again in 26 or 28?
But Biden is SOOOOOOOOOO old. Like 3 whole years older than the ancient rapist we just elected.
I mean, we know Democrats are a WAY better option for the average American, but can you imagine someone 3 WHOLE years older than the felon we elected being president? Totally unacceptable.
She tried to buy voters and it failed because noone trusts democrats to follow through on promises without them being backhanded or benefiting a group of people that aren’t involved.
You’re getting downvoted, but Kamala simply ran a better campaign than Trump. She was all about hope and inclusion, which is undeniably a better message than “hate this person I’m telling you to hate”. She decimated him in the debate, going over policy while he talked about immigrants eating pets and having concepts of plans.
She ran a better campaign. In a very short period of time.
She lost because
There’s a lot of hate in America.
Americans are easily misinformed and manipulated by disinformation. The average American is too goddamn lazy and stupid to lookup data and make responsible decisions based off that data.
Being the objectively better option on Gaza. Actually responded like a human and cared about public pressure here saying things like “International humanitarian law must be respected” and advocated for a 2-state solution vs Trumps ‘We’re gonna tell them do whatever they want to get the job done’ (greater israel incoming)
Said she would pass a middle class tax cut that will benefit 100m+ Americans
$25k for first-time homebuyers
Maintain/increase the surging Economy
Give women reproductive freedom.
Continue to move towards universal single payer healthcare.
Continue the advancements in non fossil fuel energy development.
Said she would pass a middle class tax cut that will benefit 100m+ Americans
Yeah right, why wasn’t it done already then?
$25k for first-time homebuyers
Big whoop, homes will increase 25k in price.
Maintain/increase the surging Economy
Surging economy for whom?! the liberal elites? Yeah ok.
Give women reproductive freedom.
And the democrats had FIFTY FUCKING YEARS to codify roe v Wade but cynically fundraised off it instead. YEAH RIGHT. That’s total bullshit. If she was serious why didn’t it happen under biden and why would it magically happen under her? No, nothing would change. Just more fundraising, this dumbass spent a billion to lose an election because nobody fucking believes a word out of democrat mouths anymore for good fucking reason! Like an abusive romantic relationship where the partner constantly promises change and never delivers and then gaslights you over it. And you wonder why they’re breaking up!
Continue to move towards universal single payer healthcare.
Bullshit and empty promises. Democrat senator from Connecticut joe Lieberman single-handedly killed Obamacare’s public option after being bribed by the insurance companies that are headquartered in his state. He’s dead but there’s always a democrat patsy to protect the capitalists they actually represent. Sinema, Manchin, the unheard of senate parliamentarian when it came to raising the federal minimum wage. There’s always somebody democrat aligned to protect corporate donors interests and block any kind of meaningful reform.
Continue the advancements in non fossil fuel energy development.
Too little too late. See the LA wildfires for an example. We’re already cooked. The time to act was decades ago but did the democrats do anything meaningful? NO! They protected their corporate donors and the capitalist class as they always do. Schadenfreude watching the houses of the extreme wealthy burn!
But to deny she was the better option for Gaza is just delusion.
How many billions of dollars has the Biden admin, with Harris as VP, sent to “Israel” to commit the genocide? Quantified in both dollars and arm shipments purchased with those dollars. I’m actually asking you, please provide the numbers. And separate them by bills authorizing the amounts and sales, when applicable.
Also, for the arms sales, note whether or not they’re structured to be below the threshold when Congress has to be notified of the arms sale or not (I choose the word “structuring” because this is actually a federal crime for normal people in the financial system).
Except she didn’t promise any of that (not her in particular) & the 2-state solution is a farce where the Genocide will still continue & Israel will be given more priority & as for reproductive rights
Never though killing unborn children was a reproductive right
Huh? Many of those were her original campaign promises.
Genocide will be ramped up and concerns ignored instead of just continuing while facing increasing public scrutiny and backlash. He literally told you this. Biden was a zionist at heart but Kamala would’ve softened after winning. And even if she didn’t. Argument isn’t whether she was good for Gaza, it’s that she was objectively, better than Trump.
Trump says Israel needs to ‘finish what they started’ and said war with Hamas is ‘taking a long time’
Trump told Netanyahu he wants Gaza war over by time he enters office
vs
Kamala Harris says ‘I will not be silent’ on suffering in Gaza after Netanyahu talks
There is no argument for letting Trump/GOP get in if you care about Gaza. Of course they’re worse.
Miriam Adelson sought support from candidate Trump for Israel’s annexation of the West Bank, pledging more than $100 million to Trump’s campaign in exchange for U.S. recognition of Israel’s sovereignty over the region.
It has ensured Palestine’s erasure. We’re now in the ‘Greater Israel’ period in U.S politics
Friedman, however, suggests that we should not look to Trump but to those around him — to figures like former ambassador David Friedman, Jason Greenblatt, and others who pledge to continue the unfinished work of Trump’s first term. These are the people who will be at the center of what Friedman calls a “Greater Israel” period in U.S. policy: supporting Israeli annexation and ethnic cleansing in the West Bank, Gaza, and parts of Lebanon; lifting sanctions on settlers; and preventing any bans on weapons transfers. “They have lists of things that they are ready to do,” Friedman says, warning that we should take them at their word.
That’s what I get stuck on every time. Yeah, the democrats are useless and need to make big changes. They carry a lot of blame. But it’s not just people being fed up with their useless asses. The voters turned out in big numbers to vote FOR Trump. We expected the results to take a long time and be contentious again, but the morning after Election Day his victory was already clear.
America gleefully RE-ELECTED an anti-democratic felon rapist who removed women’s rights, incited an insurrection, illegally attempted to overturn an election, stole and refused to return classified documents, and fumbled the response to the greatest American crisis since WW2.
We’re squarely in the “trash society” category now. The only thing we’re the greatest at is having a lot of firepower.
Extremely discouraging. I’m still incredulous that he got re-elected, and moreso that the democrats managed to fuck it up bad enough to lose to that fucking guy again
Okay, but where do you go with that? What do you do with that? There’s nothing you can do with “the voters are wrong” except to assure yourself that you’re right as you keep getting your ass kicked by sociopaths, idiots, and clowns every election. It’s loser talk.
The voters aren’t wrong, the democrats need to get up off their ass, stop relying on not being the other guy, and actually give the no-voters a reason to show up to the polls.
How about not trying to pretend that Biden was fine all through the primary right up until he went up on the debate stage and blew his legs off on national TV? I think that probably would have been a great start.
I’ll be honest, I can’t even really be mad at them. I can’t think of anything they should have done differently.
You’re kidding, right?
Thing #1, in giant flashing marquee letters, would’ve been “pick an AG who would’ve actually gone after the traitorous coup leader instead of sitting on his ass for two years.” Remember, Merrick Garland’s original qualification for his SCOTUS nomination was being so conservative that even Mitch McConnell had no excuse to reject him. It should’ve been blatantly obvious to everyone that that made him the absolute wrong choice for AG.
Things #2 - infinity can basically be summarized as “all the stuff that would actually help the working class, which the Democrats’ major corporate donors would never actually allow them to do.”
Thing 3: demand biden be a one term president and hold a legitimate primary instead of coronating Kamala who would of never won in a competitive primary that didn’t have the DNC ratfucking it.
I get your point, but absolutely 100% unironically it is the voters who are wrong.
Trump lead an insurrection, is a confirmed rapist, convicted felon, twice impeached, wear dampers because he’s incontinencent, openly scammed his voters out of their money multiple times and has vowed to be a dictator.
Yup. We just had the most obvious election we’re ever likely to experience and voters still managed to drop the ball. You can place blame on Democrats, and some of it would be justified, but the blame primarily lies on trash ass American voters. We are AWFUL at voting. We are AWFUL at informing ourselves responsibly.
Which is why I maintain that it’s the DNC’s fault. Trying to win by asking voters to vote against someone is a dog shit strategy with a dog shit track record. In fact, in a lot of regards, Kamala’s campaign was run pretty similarly to Hillary’s. For me, the chief similarity is that they tried to rely on fear and shaming and celebrity appearances (by the second half of the campaign) instead of offering an impactful policy slate. To boot, I seem to recall that a lot of team Hillary ended up running Kamala’s campaign, so I guess it’s not too shocking that they muzzled a lot of her left leaning ideals and basically ran Hillary pt II. One would have hoped that they would have learned anything from '16 besides voter blaming, though. I’d like to point out that Kamala gained the most ground in the first half of her campaign when it was about excitement, when people were hopeful that she’d have some progressive policies and before it was known that her policy plank was the basic centrist corporate democrat plank.
It also didn’t help that they pretended and insisted Joe was fine all through the primary, so we didn’t get one, insisted he was fine and we just didn’t have any choice but to vote blue after Joe blew his legs off and bled all over the debate stage for 90 minutes on national TV, and only started leaning on him once the really disastrous poll numbers started rolling in.
Except that’s ignoring the elephant in the room. Sure they could have run a better campaign, if they did they might have even been able to win, but the best campaign in history is still not going to win over a single MAGA cultists, and even if Kamala won, those people would not go away, they will still be there the next election to vote for a Trump and there propaganda machine will make sure there is even more of them next time too and that they are even more fanatical.
That’s the real problem and things aren’t going to get better unless we actually stop the maga cult from recruiting and/ or deprogram them.
but the best campaign in history is still not going to win over a single MAGA cultists
So you agree with us? This is like, the exact advice Harris didn’t follow and a BIG part of why she lost: trying to convince people who will never vote for her to do so at the cost of those who otherwise would have
This is your daily reminder that Trump pulled about the same numbers as he did in 2020, but Kamala pulled about 5 million less than Joe did in 2020. The republicans didn’t overperform, the democrats underperformed.
The point of my comment is that the election result is a side effect of the real issue.
Trump got 62m votes in 2016, 74m in 2020 and 77m in 2024. So even when the dems DID beat him, and even when he killed off millions of his supporters with covid, he only got more popular. His cult grows and grows and becomes more fanatical. THAT is the real problem. And nothing the dems can do in a campaign will convert a fanatical trump supporter, so unless we can do something to stop his cult growing at the very least, then it’s not going to matter how good the dems campaign is.
Biden got 81,283,501 in 2020 so he still holds the record for the most votes but a ton of people decided that they didn’t want to vote and were okay with the results being decided for them.
This honestly feels like when Democrats say that they don’t need to change anything, they just need to educate voters, as though that’s some minor task. You’re taking an achievable task for the scope of an election (running a highly, highly aggressive policy plank instead of an uninspiring centrist plank covered in progressive vinyl-wrap) and swapping it for an unachievable task (let’s just make MAGA disappear). What’s more is that the former achieves the latter, imo. Making the MAGA cult vanish just isn’t an actionable item, but it is an outcome. You’re never going to get anywhere if you just get stuck at “Sorry, we’d love to try to win this year, but we haven’t figured out how to wish MAGA out of existence yet”.
democrats don’t need to change, it’s the voters who are wrong
Why not both?
It appears to me that not only does the Democrat party need to get better at messaging, but that a very large swath of Americans are also braindead stupid and easily manipulated.
Well, that’s one take. I’ve worked around a lot of rural Republican voters, and they’re probably some of the most heavily propagandized people on earth. There’s such a a knowledge and information gulf there by design, it’s going to take something huge to break people out of it. True story, I attempted several times throughout my life to get a fair understanding of the situation in Israel, always coming up sort of befuddled except that police states are something I take at face value as bad. This last year has cleared the befuddlement, but feeling good that I had a fair assessment of things before then felt nearly impossible, even with a semi-concerted effort, because of how much bullshit there was on all sides.
But, I’d wager you don’t need republicans. Trying to flip republicans is moot. They should be trying to get no-voters.
OTOH, been seeing lots of posts brought to you by the “democrats don’t need to change, it’s the voters who are wrong” gang.
And I personally think it’s astroturfing. The political parties spend tons of $ to influence opinion. Why wouldn’t they hire a bunch of bots to push their message in this space?
How can you lose an election so bad and think that it’s the voters who need to change? The tail does not wag the dog, democrats! I refuse to believe this is genuine sentiment. I live in a very liberal state and IRL conversation it’s fuck the democrats, a whole lot of people I work with were first time trump voters. BLUE STATE. One of the most liberal. Home to Bernie sanders!
Cough, “DarkFuture”, cough, replying to every single comment in this thread, cough
It’s always the same accounts and there seems to be immediate group voting as you will see an almost immediate and usually similar number in these kinds of posts as if they are waiting and refreshing comments to make sure there is their brand of discontent.
Honestly it’s a shame that the mods keep allowing this instead of telling them to shut up and take a breather instead of trying to start fights and make shit up that makes this social site worse on a weekly basis.
I had some time, so I figured I’d call you out again:
In this post:
You commented 54 times
They commented 49 times.
Cough….
The voters voted in Trump again so maybe there’s something there.
I mean, yeah, sure. There’s a lot of fucking scumbag MAGA people. There’s also a lot of people who pay almost no attention to politics at all and have a lot of problems.
Quick! In one sentence, summarize Kamala’s campaign pitch. If you did it without mentioning Trump or Biden, I’m impressed, good job, I’m pretty interested in what you came up with. Now, do Trump. Probably something stupid like “you’ll be winning so much” or whatever, right? If you knew nothing at all about politics, which one sounds better? For someone who isn’t paying attention, maybe distrusts all politicians equally (for better or worse), probably Trump’s. Of course, he’s going to be fucking catastrophic for anyone who isn’t a billionaire, but I’m just talking campaign pitches. The point is that the democrats need to take this opportunity to get their shit together and start working on a better pitch than “not Trump”.
We are not going back -> progressiv politics for the challenges of the future
Her pitch was pretty clear and she gave concrete policies all the time this was just a narrative pushed by MAGA
Her pitch was “more drilling” and “more war” and “no changes to healthcare”.
No, I know she gave concrete policies, I watched the debate. What I mean is that
The policies weren’t much to write home about
I’m asking about the elevator pitch. Give me the campaign message in one sentence.
Continuing the good things Biden had done (chips act, student debt cancellation, etc), while protecting reproductive rights, at least pretending to treat minorities like humans, while being the only rational option that had a chance.
My life has gotten markedly worse since biden and so has that of all my coworkers. More of the same “nothing will fundamentally change” Biden except as a first black Indian woman president!!! is simply not appealing and it has nothing to do with identity politics. This economy is destroying the working class. My entire department coworkers voted for trump, almost all of them for the first time. It’s vermont. They’re pro women, pro lgbtq, don’t care about race. But Biden’s economic policies did not help them at all. All of the twice obama thrice trump voters? Same fucking thing. But that doesn’t fit the neat little identity politics narrative conveniently invented to keep people from talking about class issues and gaining class consciousness. You see, the working class greatly surpasses the ruling class in size and we’re heavily armed. Don’t want the working class getting any ideas so best to invent or manipulate identity issues to keep it divided.
If only you’d talk to people instead of parroting liberal MSM talking points that remind me of bush claiming Islamic terrorism was because they hate us! And not you know, the product of decades of US intervention in the Middle East especially the support of Israel’s bullshit.
But objectively Bidens policies were better for them. This is the problem with voting on feels and not data. Unless they voted for Trump to burn the system down in hopes that’d improve things, they voted for their situations to worsen. As well as the situation of those vulnerable groups they ‘care’ about.
Okay, great! Now, here’s where I point out the problems. Keep in mind that I am not happy that Trump won, what I want is for the democrats to take their well-earned lessons from their fuck up and not fuck up again, instead of staying in denial of any responsibility and trundling into the midterms convinced that they did everything perfect in '24.
I still don’t get why they had to die on the hill of defending a guy who was no longer seeking re-election when they had a perfect opportunity to put distance between them. It should have been the obvious thing to do when the Trump campaign was also trying to make sure that voters associated Kamala with Biden.
I mean, pretend you didn’t pay attention to politics. What’s a better one sentence pitch? What you said, or “you’re going to win a lot, you’ll be tired of winning”?
P.S. Following up on student loans: It’s also frustrating that instead of trying to make a meaningful change to at least start addressing the system that creates the student debt problem, the big fix they offered was a band-aid of debt forgiveness (for some people). That’s not meaningful change, it’s a band-aid.
It seems whenever someone pointed out that the the economy wasn’t better for the average person, people weren’t told to shut up or accused of being MAGA. But told that ‘the economy’ doesn’t measure cost of living for normal people. It’s the stock market. Regardless of that it was better by most measures comparing the rebound against other countries. Disinformation was just more effective and reality did not matter.
https://www.ipsos.com/sites/default/files/inline-images/image_454.png
If one can side just fabricate a southern invasion, or convince people inflation is high when it isn’t. It doesnt really matter what the other side does.
If you didn’t pay attention to politics you should’ve been able to take one look at Trumps actions around Jan6 and vote against it, no listing to the media required. It was transparent AF. Recordings of him trying to coerce more votes out of states, and all the nonsense that came afterwards, etc. But unfortunately fear is too effective, and the Dems are much worse at it. Too busy nitpicking a lame campaign and sowing doubt rather than the pure denial and unity the people want.
Like I asked elsewhere, if the lesson is blame the voters, then what’s the plan? Cross our arms and scoff incredulously when we lose again next time?
Bingo.
The last few elections have really highlighted how uneducated and easily manipulated the American public is. And as far as I can tell, disinformation is going to be our future. The average American just isn’t interested in responsibly informing themselves. And because of that we’ll never have the Congress we need to reign in the forces pushing that disinformation (not that you can ever really stop it now that Pandora’s Box is open). So the future goes to whatever party can fabricate the most extreme blatant lies to scare people into voting for them.
The future is not looking bright.
And the dems had 4 years to throw trump in jail but that’s “too political”
They’re useless so why vote for them?
Wonder how many rights we’ll lose and how fucked up our economy will be by the time we get the felon rapist out of office, assuming we can get him and his party out of office after they attempt to make good on their promise to “reorganize” our government after inciting an insurrection to topple it. But at least maybe Democrats will “learn their lesson” by then.
Lol. That’s literally how Republicans win. They cornered the market on it. They developed fear-based politics into an art form. THEY’RE EATING OUR PETS. INVADING IMMIGRANT CARAVANS. THEY’RE STEALING YOUR JOBS AND RAPING YOUR CHILDREN. BIDEN IS TOO OLD (totally ignore that our guy is equally old).
If anything, Democrats need to learn how to lie and scare people into voting for them more effectively, because clearly that’s what nets American votes.
I mean I guess if I cosplayed a moron I’d go with the winning comment. If I remain in the shoes of someone with a normal number of brain cells, then I’d rather hear about accomplishments and policy.
Okay, so if the lesson is blame the voters, then what’s the plan? Scoff in disbelief and say “God, I can’t believe you guys are still this stupid” when the Democrats lose again in 26 or 28?
But Biden is SOOOOOOOOOO old. Like 3 whole years older than the ancient rapist we just elected.
I mean, we know Democrats are a WAY better option for the average American, but can you imagine someone 3 WHOLE years older than the felon we elected being president? Totally unacceptable.
She tried to buy voters and it failed because noone trusts democrats to follow through on promises without them being backhanded or benefiting a group of people that aren’t involved.
Said literally days after Democrats banned medical debt from showing up on credit reports.
I’m referring to her policy proposals of giving money away for various reasons.
You’re getting downvoted, but Kamala simply ran a better campaign than Trump. She was all about hope and inclusion, which is undeniably a better message than “hate this person I’m telling you to hate”. She decimated him in the debate, going over policy while he talked about immigrants eating pets and having concepts of plans.
She ran a better campaign. In a very short period of time.
She lost because
There’s a lot of hate in America.
Americans are easily misinformed and manipulated by disinformation. The average American is too goddamn lazy and stupid to lookup data and make responsible decisions based off that data.
Winning the vote is the only metric that actually counts for how good a campagna is.
What was she clear about again ? Her overwhelming support for the Genocide of Gaza ? Yes
Off the top of my head
DOUBT!
Yeah right, why wasn’t it done already then?
Big whoop, homes will increase 25k in price.
Surging economy for whom?! the liberal elites? Yeah ok.
And the democrats had FIFTY FUCKING YEARS to codify roe v Wade but cynically fundraised off it instead. YEAH RIGHT. That’s total bullshit. If she was serious why didn’t it happen under biden and why would it magically happen under her? No, nothing would change. Just more fundraising, this dumbass spent a billion to lose an election because nobody fucking believes a word out of democrat mouths anymore for good fucking reason! Like an abusive romantic relationship where the partner constantly promises change and never delivers and then gaslights you over it. And you wonder why they’re breaking up!
Bullshit and empty promises. Democrat senator from Connecticut joe Lieberman single-handedly killed Obamacare’s public option after being bribed by the insurance companies that are headquartered in his state. He’s dead but there’s always a democrat patsy to protect the capitalists they actually represent. Sinema, Manchin, the unheard of senate parliamentarian when it came to raising the federal minimum wage. There’s always somebody democrat aligned to protect corporate donors interests and block any kind of meaningful reform.
Too little too late. See the LA wildfires for an example. We’re already cooked. The time to act was decades ago but did the democrats do anything meaningful? NO! They protected their corporate donors and the capitalist class as they always do. Schadenfreude watching the houses of the extreme wealthy burn!
The argument wasn’t whether or not people believed her. It was on whether or not they knew what the policies were.
But to deny she was the better option for Gaza is just delusion.
How many billions of dollars has the Biden admin, with Harris as VP, sent to “Israel” to commit the genocide? Quantified in both dollars and arm shipments purchased with those dollars. I’m actually asking you, please provide the numbers. And separate them by bills authorizing the amounts and sales, when applicable.
Also, for the arms sales, note whether or not they’re structured to be below the threshold when Congress has to be notified of the arms sale or not (I choose the word “structuring” because this is actually a federal crime for normal people in the financial system).
Except she didn’t promise any of that (not her in particular) & the 2-state solution is a farce where the Genocide will still continue & Israel will be given more priority & as for reproductive rights Never though killing unborn children was a reproductive right
Giving a woman the right to choose to abort her fetus or not is definitely a reproductive right and also a basic human right.
It’s healthcare and it is not for politicians to decide when it should be between a woman and her doctor.
Huh? Many of those were her original campaign promises.
Genocide will be ramped up and concerns ignored instead of just continuing while facing increasing public scrutiny and backlash. He literally told you this. Biden was a zionist at heart but Kamala would’ve softened after winning. And even if she didn’t. Argument isn’t whether she was good for Gaza, it’s that she was objectively, better than Trump.
vs
The current GOP is busy writing “finish them” on Israeli artillery shells. https://www.reuters.com/world/us/nikki-haley-writes-finish-them-israeli-artillery-shell-drawing-criticism-2024-05-29/
There is no argument for letting Trump/GOP get in if you care about Gaza. Of course they’re worse.
It has ensured Palestine’s erasure. We’re now in the ‘Greater Israel’ period in U.S politics
I like how you talk more about Israel/Palestine than you do about the United States.
Priorities looking real good.
Because US has a hand in it & Also US is not the center of the universe
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Lazy comment is lazy.
That’s what I get stuck on every time. Yeah, the democrats are useless and need to make big changes. They carry a lot of blame. But it’s not just people being fed up with their useless asses. The voters turned out in big numbers to vote FOR Trump. We expected the results to take a long time and be contentious again, but the morning after Election Day his victory was already clear.
It’s just… sad? Discouraging?
It’s pathetic is what it is.
America gleefully RE-ELECTED an anti-democratic felon rapist who removed women’s rights, incited an insurrection, illegally attempted to overturn an election, stole and refused to return classified documents, and fumbled the response to the greatest American crisis since WW2.
We’re squarely in the “trash society” category now. The only thing we’re the greatest at is having a lot of firepower.
Extremely discouraging. I’m still incredulous that he got re-elected, and moreso that the democrats managed to fuck it up bad enough to lose to that fucking guy again
Can’t fix dumbass Americans, no matter how good your campaign is.
Okay, but where do you go with that? What do you do with that? There’s nothing you can do with “the voters are wrong” except to assure yourself that you’re right as you keep getting your ass kicked by sociopaths, idiots, and clowns every election. It’s loser talk.
The voters aren’t wrong, the democrats need to get up off their ass, stop relying on not being the other guy, and actually give the no-voters a reason to show up to the polls.
I’ll be honest, I can’t even really be mad at them. I can’t think of anything they should have done differently.
I don’t know what you do when your economic plan is countered by “mine is better, I’ll give you details later”, and “immigrants will eat your pets”.
How about not trying to pretend that Biden was fine all through the primary right up until he went up on the debate stage and blew his legs off on national TV? I think that probably would have been a great start.
You’re kidding, right?
Thing #1, in giant flashing marquee letters, would’ve been “pick an AG who would’ve actually gone after the traitorous coup leader instead of sitting on his ass for two years.” Remember, Merrick Garland’s original qualification for his SCOTUS nomination was being so conservative that even Mitch McConnell had no excuse to reject him. It should’ve been blatantly obvious to everyone that that made him the absolute wrong choice for AG.
Things #2 - infinity can basically be summarized as “all the stuff that would actually help the working class, which the Democrats’ major corporate donors would never actually allow them to do.”
Thing 3: demand biden be a one term president and hold a legitimate primary instead of coronating Kamala who would of never won in a competitive primary that didn’t have the DNC ratfucking it.
Yup. If reality is subjective you can’t really win an election without cornering the market on fear, which is the one thing Republicans are good at.
I’m of the belief they fucked up on purpose. It’s fraud (not the election, their behavior) so they can fundraise off it.
I get your point, but absolutely 100% unironically it is the voters who are wrong.
Trump lead an insurrection, is a confirmed rapist, convicted felon, twice impeached, wear dampers because he’s incontinencent, openly scammed his voters out of their money multiple times and has vowed to be a dictator.
A sloppy dog shit should have won against him.
Yup. We just had the most obvious election we’re ever likely to experience and voters still managed to drop the ball. You can place blame on Democrats, and some of it would be justified, but the blame primarily lies on trash ass American voters. We are AWFUL at voting. We are AWFUL at informing ourselves responsibly.
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Which is why I maintain that it’s the DNC’s fault. Trying to win by asking voters to vote against someone is a dog shit strategy with a dog shit track record. In fact, in a lot of regards, Kamala’s campaign was run pretty similarly to Hillary’s. For me, the chief similarity is that they tried to rely on fear and shaming and celebrity appearances (by the second half of the campaign) instead of offering an impactful policy slate. To boot, I seem to recall that a lot of team Hillary ended up running Kamala’s campaign, so I guess it’s not too shocking that they muzzled a lot of her left leaning ideals and basically ran Hillary pt II. One would have hoped that they would have learned anything from '16 besides voter blaming, though. I’d like to point out that Kamala gained the most ground in the first half of her campaign when it was about excitement, when people were hopeful that she’d have some progressive policies and before it was known that her policy plank was the basic centrist corporate democrat plank.
It also didn’t help that they pretended and insisted Joe was fine all through the primary, so we didn’t get one, insisted he was fine and we just didn’t have any choice but to vote blue after Joe blew his legs off and bled all over the debate stage for 90 minutes on national TV, and only started leaning on him once the really disastrous poll numbers started rolling in.
Exactly, supposedly, it is the voter’s fault for not taking Trump seriously, even though the DNC absolutely refuses to.
Except that’s ignoring the elephant in the room. Sure they could have run a better campaign, if they did they might have even been able to win, but the best campaign in history is still not going to win over a single MAGA cultists, and even if Kamala won, those people would not go away, they will still be there the next election to vote for a Trump and there propaganda machine will make sure there is even more of them next time too and that they are even more fanatical.
That’s the real problem and things aren’t going to get better unless we actually stop the maga cult from recruiting and/ or deprogram them.
So you agree with us? This is like, the exact advice Harris didn’t follow and a BIG part of why she lost: trying to convince people who will never vote for her to do so at the cost of those who otherwise would have
If you want to purposely ignore the entire fucking point of my comment, sure.
This is your daily reminder that Trump pulled about the same numbers as he did in 2020, but Kamala pulled about 5 million less than Joe did in 2020. The republicans didn’t overperform, the democrats underperformed.
Cool, you’re completely ignoring the point of my comment.
No. I didn’t. The person who won the popular vote was no vote. Fuck maga, the democrats need to be giving people a reason to show up.
Yes you did. And you’re still missing it.
The point of my comment is that the election result is a side effect of the real issue.
Trump got 62m votes in 2016, 74m in 2020 and 77m in 2024. So even when the dems DID beat him, and even when he killed off millions of his supporters with covid, he only got more popular. His cult grows and grows and becomes more fanatical. THAT is the real problem. And nothing the dems can do in a campaign will convert a fanatical trump supporter, so unless we can do something to stop his cult growing at the very least, then it’s not going to matter how good the dems campaign is.
Biden got 81,283,501 in 2020 so he still holds the record for the most votes but a ton of people decided that they didn’t want to vote and were okay with the results being decided for them.
How do you reach those people?
This honestly feels like when Democrats say that they don’t need to change anything, they just need to educate voters, as though that’s some minor task. You’re taking an achievable task for the scope of an election (running a highly, highly aggressive policy plank instead of an uninspiring centrist plank covered in progressive vinyl-wrap) and swapping it for an unachievable task (let’s just make MAGA disappear). What’s more is that the former achieves the latter, imo. Making the MAGA cult vanish just isn’t an actionable item, but it is an outcome. You’re never going to get anywhere if you just get stuck at “Sorry, we’d love to try to win this year, but we haven’t figured out how to wish MAGA out of existence yet”.
Why not both?
It appears to me that not only does the Democrat party need to get better at messaging, but that a very large swath of Americans are also braindead stupid and easily manipulated.
Well, that’s one take. I’ve worked around a lot of rural Republican voters, and they’re probably some of the most heavily propagandized people on earth. There’s such a a knowledge and information gulf there by design, it’s going to take something huge to break people out of it. True story, I attempted several times throughout my life to get a fair understanding of the situation in Israel, always coming up sort of befuddled except that police states are something I take at face value as bad. This last year has cleared the befuddlement, but feeling good that I had a fair assessment of things before then felt nearly impossible, even with a semi-concerted effort, because of how much bullshit there was on all sides.
But, I’d wager you don’t need republicans. Trying to flip republicans is moot. They should be trying to get no-voters.