The democrats are very good at fighting a change inside their own party. They’re very bad at fighting republicans on the national stage. Case in point, voter suppression in the last election, the stolen election of Gore v. Bush in 2000 (Gore had majority in Florida in the end, did you hear CNN reporting about it?)
The Dem base has been fully bought out by corporate interests. They are “controlled opposition” in every sense. A vestigial remnant of their 1940s peak that mostly exists to rein in the excesses of the prior conservative leadership (although, one could argue even FDR ultimately filled that role).
(Gore had majority in Florida in the end, did you hear CNN reporting about it?)
The degree to which Florida has been fumbled by Dems for the last 30 years cannot be overstated.
The degree to which Florida has been fumbled by Dems for the last 30 years cannot be overstated.
As much as they messed up there, I have to point out that a significant percentage of the voters went for Nader (although would have preferred Gore to Bush). That stupid idiotic moronic idealism cost them and the world two pointless wars in the Middle East, whose ripple effects can still be felt. Nevertheless R’s just stole the election and the D’s rolled over I suppose in order not to cause instability and keep the corporate overlords happy. Can you imagine how angry the R machinery would have gotten if the roles were reversed (possibly some of the D base as well, but just because they’re not similar scum as R voters)?
Yes, the Republican supreme court was the real problem. However, with Nader’s votes it would have been more difficult to claim victory, as Florida would have been a wider margin win for Gore. What were those Nader votes good for? Absolutely nothing.
Agreed. Moronic idealism to back corporate interests over the working class by the Dems certainly screwed us over.
That’s not idealism my friend, just cold opportunism and cynical realism.
Imagine if the Dems actually stole policies from Nader, and sucked in those Nader voters? Imagine how much better we’d be as a nation?
This is a good point. However Gore was a good candidate. Not perfect, but good with a chance of winning. Nader was perhaps perfect for some people, but he absolutely could not have won anything in that election.
Nader pulled from D and R voters in equal measure. That’s not why Gore lost. Miami-Dade county was deliberately obstructed from completing its vote counting by Republican campaign staff
Both Roger Stone and Brad Blakeman take credit for managing the riot from a command post, although their accounts contradict each other. Republican New York Representative John E. Sweeney gave the signal that started the riot, telling an aide to “shut it down”.
Blaming Nader for a judicial coup is asinine. Dems pivoting hard right as a result - by embracing Iraq Warmongering, financial deregulation, and rapid expansion of domestic O&G production - did significantly more damage to the party than Nader’s protest votes.
Can you imagine how angry the R machinery would have gotten if the roles were reversed
You hardly have to imagine. Just ask Republicans how they felt about the Perot voters in '92, when Clinton swept the EC with 43% of the total vote.
Nader pulled from D and R voters in equal measure.
Nader’s Wikipedia page disagrees.
Miami-Dade county was deliberately obstructed from completing its vote counting by Republican campaign staff
Blaming Nader for a judicial coup is asinine.
Yes, we should not forget that the Republicans were the real villains here. And that the Democrats should have protested much harder. However, the point is that Gore was initially declared winner, but because his margin was not significant enough, there was room to obfuscate the victory. Had he gotten Nader’s votes, it would have been more difficult to claim Bush victory.
You hardly have to imagine. Just ask Republicans how they felt about the Perot voters in '92, when Clinton swept the EC with 43% of the total vote.
Yeah, it was mostly a rhetoric question. I was mainly thinking all the bullshit about stolen election in 2020.
The democrats are very good at fighting a change inside their own party. They’re very bad at fighting republicans on the national stage. Case in point, voter suppression in the last election, the stolen election of Gore v. Bush in 2000 (Gore had majority in Florida in the end, did you hear CNN reporting about it?)
The democrats are only good at fighting a change inside their own party.
The Dem base has been fully bought out by corporate interests. They are “controlled opposition” in every sense. A vestigial remnant of their 1940s peak that mostly exists to rein in the excesses of the prior conservative leadership (although, one could argue even FDR ultimately filled that role).
The degree to which Florida has been fumbled by Dems for the last 30 years cannot be overstated.
As much as they messed up there, I have to point out that a significant percentage of the voters went for Nader (although would have preferred Gore to Bush). That stupid idiotic moronic idealism cost them and the world two pointless wars in the Middle East, whose ripple effects can still be felt. Nevertheless R’s just stole the election and the D’s rolled over I suppose in order not to cause instability and keep the corporate overlords happy. Can you imagine how angry the R machinery would have gotten if the roles were reversed (possibly some of the D base as well, but just because they’re not similar scum as R voters)?
Centrists will blame progressives any time they lose, even if they actually lost because the Supreme Court handed Republicans a victory.
Yes, the Republican supreme court was the real problem. However, with Nader’s votes it would have been more difficult to claim victory, as Florida would have been a wider margin win for Gore. What were those Nader votes good for? Absolutely nothing.
Agreed. Moronic idealism to back corporate interests over the working class by the Dems certainly screwed us over.
Imagine if the Dems actually stole policies from Nader, and sucked in those Nader voters? Imagine how much better we’d be as a nation?
That’s not idealism my friend, just cold opportunism and cynical realism.
This is a good point. However Gore was a good candidate. Not perfect, but good with a chance of winning. Nader was perhaps perfect for some people, but he absolutely could not have won anything in that election.
Unlike Gore, who won the election, of course…
Nader pulled from D and R voters in equal measure. That’s not why Gore lost. Miami-Dade county was deliberately obstructed from completing its vote counting by Republican campaign staff
Blaming Nader for a judicial coup is asinine. Dems pivoting hard right as a result - by embracing Iraq Warmongering, financial deregulation, and rapid expansion of domestic O&G production - did significantly more damage to the party than Nader’s protest votes.
You hardly have to imagine. Just ask Republicans how they felt about the Perot voters in '92, when Clinton swept the EC with 43% of the total vote.
Yes, we should not forget that the Republicans were the real villains here. And that the Democrats should have protested much harder. However, the point is that Gore was initially declared winner, but because his margin was not significant enough, there was room to obfuscate the victory. Had he gotten Nader’s votes, it would have been more difficult to claim Bush victory.
Yeah, it was mostly a rhetoric question. I was mainly thinking all the bullshit about stolen election in 2020.