Summary
Trump and Zelenskyy’s confrontational Oval Office meeting advanced “mob boss foreign policy” serving Russian interests.
Trump and Vance bullied Zelenskyy when he refused their “extortionate” minerals deal or to thank them despite Trump’s stated intent to reduce support for Ukraine.
Zelenskyy effectively countered their claims by noting Russia’s 2014 invasion and correcting historical inaccuracies, which angered the Americans.
This represents the first openly “anti-US, anti-Western, anti-democracy foreign policy in American history.” Russians embraced it, and Putin ally and former Russian president Dmitry Medvedev celebrated the exchange.
And the sad part is that even if we can get our act together and pull put of this, our former allies would be justified in not getting too close, because we’ve demonstrated that we could just allow the morons back in at the next election to burn it all down again.
The US always had terribly low resilience in the way their government is structured. The “checks and balances” were pretty great in the late 18th century, but their protections are paper thin and assume good faith.
Several countries have iterated upon their constitutions in the last 300 years, often to close exactly the kind of vulnerabilities we can see exploited in the US right now. For example, because of what the Weimar republic’s article 48 was used for in 1933, the German president no longer has those powers.
I understand that the US constitutions had had amendments, but as far as I can tell, the fundamental flaws across several core institutions have never been addressed. Until they are, the US can not be a trustworthy partner for any endeavor longer than the next election cycle.
Ah, that gets to a different part of our problem: our Conservatives’ fetish for our founders. A majority of our Supreme Court literally uses “What would George Washington think of all this” as justification for rulings. It is very hard (on purpose) to get amendments passed, they need broad consensus not only at the Federal level, but at the State level. That will be impossible to get when half the country uses “what did the founders think” as the benchmark for all rulings. It makes it impossible to update anything.
It’s frankly a much healthier strategy for our (former) allies. We’re really not all that dependable anymore. We’ve been coasting on inertia for decades.
No, I wouldn’t say that. Prior Republican administrations certainly pushed the Unitary Executive theory, but only at some boundaries and worked within the bounds set by Congress and the Courts for most things. Even the first Trump administration was constrained, not only by Congress but also by the administrators that Republicans encouraged him to bring in board, who continued to respect those boundaries.
The unique thing about this Presidency is that Trump is upending all of it. Republicans have long fantasized about demolishing the parts of the Federal government they don’t like. Now they own all the levers of government and could do it all through legislation. But they won’t, because they understand aspects of it will be unpopular and don’t want those votes on the record. So instead, Congress is letting Trump and Musk grab them by the pussy. Republicans get to make the government so small they can drown it in the bathtub, like they always wanted, much faster than the legal process would allow for. All they have to do is look the other way while Trump and Musk trample all over the laws.
So yes, this is different. Our former allies would be correct to not trust us again unless we can place real constraints around the Presidency again, somehow. Depending on Congress to be a check on a President no longer works.
Cope.
Ya’ll’ve been skirting the line for a long time. Most people only get along with the US because they feel like have to, or because they aren’t paying attention to what happens when you get on their bad side for doing things like trying to develop democracy(Latin America, anyone?). Your country was already in the hole but we still had you tied to a rope and were desperately propping you up because you have the keys to van. Now you’ve called everyone losers and cut the rope and, frankly, we’re starting to realize that our efforts would be better spent walking home that trying to fish you out of there while being fought the whole time just for you to drive us all off a cliff an hoir later.
Fuck the US. Fucking shithole.
While some of the critiques you’re leveling are completely valid and correct, I don’t think making a sweeping hostile generalization about all Americans is helpful here.
Also you’re coming off like an asshole. I want to help. The person you’re replying to probably wants to help too. Don’t punch down on that
This person I’m replying to believes that if the world just waits it out that American can be a shining beacon of hope with just a few changes. That is not the case, and the people of the US need to understand that the rest of the world does not believe them to be the main characters the same way they do.
Even many well-meaning in the US are taught a history that paints them as heroes and downplays the efforts of others. Many believe they won WW2, after joing exceptionally late and only because they themselves were attacked. It is a selfish nation, and I do not care(in this instance) about the good people who live there if the country and all it’s might are used to destroy the lives of others.
I have good friends who are from the US and there are many strangers to me from there who equally don’t deserve the consequences of what’s happening. I am still avoiding buying from there, and as Trump said himself that step one of trying to take over Canada would be to attempt to cripple us economically right before enacting tariffs meant specifically to cripple us economically I consider the US an enemy state actively trying to wage war against us.
Do not tell me to be so kind and gentle to someone who thinks that in four years, if they even manage to elect one of their lukewarm centre-right Democrats back into office, that I should breathe a great sigh of relief and pretend everything is back to normal. The US, as a country, is a terrible place filled with all manner of cruel monsters.
And yes, many good individuals, too.
Not that poster, but it’s really easy to be an ass in these discussions because it’s normally filled with liberal middle class Americans who have a unique set of blinders and hopes that can get frustrating .
And I say this as a middle class American more deluded than most
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Yeah I’m actually slightly annoyed that while the first presidency we haven’t cooled that much and prepared ourselves to be less dependent on the US.
But I think now it’s pretty clear, "Trump"s USA is not something we (as europeans) can rely on anymore. Repeating the error twice should be more than enough to come to that conclusion, it was blatantly obvious that something like this could happen (seemingly not for a lot of americans, it’s almost comical to see something like “LeopardsAteMyFace”). Though I’m still a little bit surprised at what speed Trumps administration is able to disassemble the US…
I’m not. I keep reminding people that “dismantling the administrative state” has been a priority for our Conservatives for quite a while now. What makes this different, though, is that they are choosing to do it quickly and illegally even though they have the votes to do it the regular way. That is what makes this different. They are sending the message, on purpose, that laws dont matter anymore, across the whole thing. Prior administrations might have skirted legal boundaries from time to time, but not on all fronts like this one has.
So it’s not that Europe can’t rely on Trump’s USA. It’s that Europe can’t rely on the American government respecting its own laws. And even if they throw this lot out in 4 years, it can all come back if we don’t get out shit together as a country. That will be impossible to do while Trump is still around. I fear. Even if he can’t manage to get past the 2-term limit every Republican will be subservient to him until God exercises His Ultimate Recall Vote.