“You can imagine how frustrating it is to interact with someone who seems to think about things in a similar way and who shares the same basic logic of how things work as you do, but you come to the opposite conclusions,”
Take homelessness, both sides view it as a problem. One side wants to solve it through aid, education, and fair wages, the other side want to lock them up and throw away the key.
One side sees it as largely a societal failing, and the other strictly a moral failing. Individuals make choices good and bad, but stuck in a system in which you can’t win, well, what’s so great about having a good attitude about it.
I have convos like thar with my parents all the time. Like with Student Debt Forgiveness, they recognize its a problem, they get that its preventing people from buying homes and thar jobs are paying shit, but the glaringly obvious solution of forgiving that debt is just too radically left for them and they worked so hard to keep me from taking on big student loans.
They’re stuck in the far right-centrist right dichotomy of the Oberton window in the US, and just can’t take that step beyond the bounds of ideas outside the comparatively narrow views in America. My parents aren’t also Fox News watchers, the primarily stick to CNN so they’re not stuck in some absurd false reality but they’re still stuck in a pro capitalist framework.
Predatory loan practices, rate hikes, agreements where you can’t pay extra on the principal, can’t just straight pay off.
Like, I was lucky, I didn’t get screwed over too hard. But I was in school before it got really bad. So, my low fixed rate federal loans were sold to a private company after I graduated, and they raised the rates considerably. Not only that, but paying extra on the principal raised your interest rate. I got out of that by just paying interest until I had saved up enough money to pay in full. These days you would pay in full plus interest over the original life of the loan.
Friend of mine, her student loan’s interest rate is 18%. It was much lower when she took out the loan, but now it’s so much she can’t pay it off. Current plan is to pay interest for the rest of her life.
I agree, the interest rates are crazy, and people should be informed about it, but you’re just saying what the problem is. Not how to fix it.
What you claim is a ‘glaringly obvious’ solution to this doesn’t solve what you’re talking about. It doesn’t solve the predatory nature of loans, or the government pushing of student loans either, which increases tuition costs. Your solution does nothing except give middle/upper-middle educated people $1.6T
So, good, we agree on one of the problems, tell me how your ‘glaringly obvious’ solution of student loan forgiveness solves that problem.
You let the bullshit swaps and bonds built around the debt here explode instead of paying them while erasing the obligation from the students, allowing the massive and over leveraged banks positions around these to fail. There needs to be consequences for that type of predatory lending and the biggest problem is not even laws it’s enforcement of those laws and the small fines being dished out in comparison making people like you think 1.6T is so massive we cant do shit. The Federal Reserve, a for-profit organization not federal besides its name, have printed and injected about 17T into the banks for relief sense 2017, this is peanuts comparatively and gives millions of people relief and the ability to interact meaningfully with the economy instead of being more enslaved to debt. That creates opportunities, growth, and more chances for someone to be able to donate time and money to charities or other similar types of organizations in their community. Where as now people can’t even get time to vote between paying for loans. That helps no one and creates more issues. Your answer of just ignoring the problem adds nothing of value here, nor does it yield any solution, if your gonna attack someone else’s position, at least have another one you can actually defend first.
here needs to be consequences for that type of predatory lending
Sure, maybe. How does paying off $1.6T in student loans, a hand out to the highest earners of our generation, fix the ‘predatory lending’? It doesn’t. It encourages it. It tells banks "keep doing your sketchy shit, if it gets too much for the country, the government will just pay it all back to you!’
small fines being dished out in comparison making people like you think 1.6T is so massive we cant do shit.
People like me? Once again - tell me how giving $1.6T to the most educated, highest earning highest educated portion of our generation is going to fix predatory school loans. If you don’t even attempt to answer that in your next comment, I don’t care to respond. All you’re trying to do is trash me, when I agree with you - predatory school loans are an issue. Instead of trying to fix the issue, you want a handout to help yourself, and let the next generation of students get dicked. That’s not a solution, that’s kicking the can down the road.
a for-profit organization
Although I’m iffy on the FR in general, it is part of the government. I’m not sure where you’re getting that it’s for profit?
have printed and injected about 17T into the banks for relief sense 2017
In relief? You mean printed that much money to hand out in loans? I just think fundamentally you don’t understand how the FR interacts with banks.
someone to be able to donate time and money to charities or other similar types of organizations in their community.
Please provide evidence of student loan relief leading towards increased monetary donations and time donations.
. Your answer of just ignoring
Where did I say this was my answer? I just noted that what you and your buddies think is a ‘glaringly obvious’ solution - isn’t a solution at all.
Once again, I don’t care to respond unless you answer one simple question: if the solution is so glaringly obvious, how does paying the loans of the highest education, highest earning and most capable portion of our population fix the predatory nature of student loans, the high interest rates and increasing cost of tuition?
Are you going to go into your city and yell out ‘we need to give $1.6T to middle and upper class, university educated people, and we need to do it NOW!’? How is that a ‘glaringly obvious’ solution?
How does this remove the core issues of the student debt crisis: that it doesn’t reduce the cost of college, and may even increase it due to moral hazard? How is student debt forgiveness ‘glaringly obvious’ when it doesn’t address that at all?
How does it reduce the amount that future students are going to take out to get an education? How is student debt forgiveness a ‘glaringly obvious’ solution to this?
Just because you and likely your ~30 YO educated peers have an issue doesn’t mean the whole nation just needs to write a blank check when the demographic you’re talking about giving $1.6T to are the highest earners in your generation?
It’s not that the solution is ‘glaringly obvious’ - and everyone who doesn’t support it are just stuck in the far right, it’s because there are legitimate problems with your ‘glaringly obvious’ solution.
Rofl. They think that’s what’s happening?
Take homelessness, both sides view it as a problem. One side wants to solve it through aid, education, and fair wages, the other side want to lock them up and throw away the key.
One side sees it as largely a societal failing, and the other strictly a moral failing. Individuals make choices good and bad, but stuck in a system in which you can’t win, well, what’s so great about having a good attitude about it.
I have convos like thar with my parents all the time. Like with Student Debt Forgiveness, they recognize its a problem, they get that its preventing people from buying homes and thar jobs are paying shit, but the glaringly obvious solution of forgiving that debt is just too radically left for them and they worked so hard to keep me from taking on big student loans.
They’re stuck in the far right-centrist right dichotomy of the Oberton window in the US, and just can’t take that step beyond the bounds of ideas outside the comparatively narrow views in America. My parents aren’t also Fox News watchers, the primarily stick to CNN so they’re not stuck in some absurd false reality but they’re still stuck in a pro capitalist framework.
Same with preventing the circumstances that caused this problem in the first place - regulate the banks? That’s communism!
How is it the banks faults?
Predatory loan practices, rate hikes, agreements where you can’t pay extra on the principal, can’t just straight pay off.
Like, I was lucky, I didn’t get screwed over too hard. But I was in school before it got really bad. So, my low fixed rate federal loans were sold to a private company after I graduated, and they raised the rates considerably. Not only that, but paying extra on the principal raised your interest rate. I got out of that by just paying interest until I had saved up enough money to pay in full. These days you would pay in full plus interest over the original life of the loan.
Friend of mine, her student loan’s interest rate is 18%. It was much lower when she took out the loan, but now it’s so much she can’t pay it off. Current plan is to pay interest for the rest of her life.
This shit should be illegal.
I agree, the interest rates are crazy, and people should be informed about it, but you’re just saying what the problem is. Not how to fix it.
What you claim is a ‘glaringly obvious’ solution to this doesn’t solve what you’re talking about. It doesn’t solve the predatory nature of loans, or the government pushing of student loans either, which increases tuition costs. Your solution does nothing except give middle/upper-middle educated people $1.6T
So, good, we agree on one of the problems, tell me how your ‘glaringly obvious’ solution of student loan forgiveness solves that problem.
You let the bullshit swaps and bonds built around the debt here explode instead of paying them while erasing the obligation from the students, allowing the massive and over leveraged banks positions around these to fail. There needs to be consequences for that type of predatory lending and the biggest problem is not even laws it’s enforcement of those laws and the small fines being dished out in comparison making people like you think 1.6T is so massive we cant do shit. The Federal Reserve, a for-profit organization not federal besides its name, have printed and injected about 17T into the banks for relief sense 2017, this is peanuts comparatively and gives millions of people relief and the ability to interact meaningfully with the economy instead of being more enslaved to debt. That creates opportunities, growth, and more chances for someone to be able to donate time and money to charities or other similar types of organizations in their community. Where as now people can’t even get time to vote between paying for loans. That helps no one and creates more issues. Your answer of just ignoring the problem adds nothing of value here, nor does it yield any solution, if your gonna attack someone else’s position, at least have another one you can actually defend first.
I didn’t do shit, man.
Sure, maybe. How does paying off $1.6T in student loans, a hand out to the highest earners of our generation, fix the ‘predatory lending’? It doesn’t. It encourages it. It tells banks "keep doing your sketchy shit, if it gets too much for the country, the government will just pay it all back to you!’
People like me? Once again - tell me how giving $1.6T to the most educated, highest earning highest educated portion of our generation is going to fix predatory school loans. If you don’t even attempt to answer that in your next comment, I don’t care to respond. All you’re trying to do is trash me, when I agree with you - predatory school loans are an issue. Instead of trying to fix the issue, you want a handout to help yourself, and let the next generation of students get dicked. That’s not a solution, that’s kicking the can down the road.
Although I’m iffy on the FR in general, it is part of the government. I’m not sure where you’re getting that it’s for profit?
In relief? You mean printed that much money to hand out in loans? I just think fundamentally you don’t understand how the FR interacts with banks.
Please provide evidence of student loan relief leading towards increased monetary donations and time donations.
Where did I say this was my answer? I just noted that what you and your buddies think is a ‘glaringly obvious’ solution - isn’t a solution at all.
Once again, I don’t care to respond unless you answer one simple question: if the solution is so glaringly obvious, how does paying the loans of the highest education, highest earning and most capable portion of our population fix the predatory nature of student loans, the high interest rates and increasing cost of tuition?
Just because that’s what you want doesn’t make it ‘glaringly obvious.’
Those with student loan debt are middle or middle upper class white folk. The cost of forgiving student debt would be 1.6T
Are you going to go into your city and yell out ‘we need to give $1.6T to middle and upper class, university educated people, and we need to do it NOW!’? How is that a ‘glaringly obvious’ solution?
How does this remove the core issues of the student debt crisis: that it doesn’t reduce the cost of college, and may even increase it due to moral hazard? How is student debt forgiveness ‘glaringly obvious’ when it doesn’t address that at all?
How does it reduce the amount that future students are going to take out to get an education? How is student debt forgiveness a ‘glaringly obvious’ solution to this?
Just because you and likely your ~30 YO educated peers have an issue doesn’t mean the whole nation just needs to write a blank check when the demographic you’re talking about giving $1.6T to are the highest earners in your generation?
It’s not that the solution is ‘glaringly obvious’ - and everyone who doesn’t support it are just stuck in the far right, it’s because there are legitimate problems with your ‘glaringly obvious’ solution.